3-5* is what most feet should be at, so yes, 1*, and especially 0*, while aren’t negative, are definitely not healthy, and absolutely easily cause issues if angles are that low for long enough.
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This.
Negative values aren’t good, but 0-3 can be “negative” as far as the impact on the horse.
Having followed the other threads on the older gelding, I would bet money that the feet are a chunk of his issues - whether the root cause or just a piece of the puzzle.
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OTOH, my mare has neutral angles and is totally fine. Works over her back, no discomfort, huge over track.
I sure hope so. I really wonder if his wind puffs that we’ve just always waved off as cosmetic is a sign of this too-don’t know if there is typically a link there, but when I was really trying to dig in and fix this horse to compete I didn’t know at the time about hind suspensory irritation or anything of that ilk so now I’m curious if it’s a double whammy. NPA and some soft tissue irritation because of it perhaps?
It’s not “just” NPA, you can’t look at it all by itself. What is the HPA? (hoof pastern axis). This too needs alignment, which comes when the hoof is correctly aligned.
Honestly, frog support pads have helped my mare the most.
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wind puffs start due to some type of over-stress of the soft tissue. If caught in time, they can go away, but not always if the stretching can’t return to normal. Assuming the cause is removed, then remaining swelling is just cosmetic. Same for thoroughpins and bog spavins
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Interesting…I certainly don’t expect them to go away at this point, but I do wonder if the over-stress is because of his hoof angles.
I wish I had more pictures of his feet from years ago, so I could compare. Since I wasn’t aware of NPA issues and hadn’t begun to educate myself on this until recently, I’m genuinely not sure whether his angles have gotten worse over time or always been like this.
I wouldn’t normally jump to this suggestion, but since OP has ruled out many of the usual suspects, if nothing improves with the NPA management I might keep the possibility of ESPA/DSLD in the back of my mind. OP has shared a lot of symptoms that overlap with that disorder, the comment about the windpuff made me think of it.
Fingers crossed it is “just” NPA (neutral)>
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I apologize for hijacking this post-but my guy just got the frog support pads put on this morning so I do have a small update.
I was hoping to give him a full body “massage” and use his posture prep as well as do some light stretching to check in on how he feels. Admittedly though, he was a little mudball and I was wearing my work clothes so I didn’t want to touch him too much and posture prep over wet, muddy skin is not fun at all so we opted for the lightest of light lunge and some sure foot pads.
Few things I noticed right off the bat-he wasn’t standing so camped under anymore in the back the way I started to notice he was standing within the last few weeks. His wind puffs were extremely minimal tonight-granted, some days they are less noticeable than others, but I expected he’d be puffy tonight since he probably didn’t move around much in the gross weather today.
I trotted him two circles each way on the lunge to make sure there was no lameness after such a big change, and the first half a circle his motion through his hocks was insane-as if he was wearing boots for the first time or something, so he definitely felt a difference. After that he actually stretched down at the trot the rest of the time. He does stretch on the lunge occasionally, but only about 10-15 mins into a lunge session so this isn’t super common for him.
Only one day’s observations, but maybe I’m not imagining it? And I’m seeing a positive difference already??
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My NPA horse showed major improvement within a day or two of each improved trim and shoes, and then adding the wedge pads eventually. I think it’s like for us, going from shoes that pinch/don’t fit to ones that do, or even adding orthopedic insoles. You might feel better instantly, and you might also have to get used to being in balance for a change!
I really hope so! I’m going to ride him tonight (very lightly) and I’m very interested to see if he actually feels much different under saddle. If this is also the cause of his back soreness then I imagine that will take a little bit to go away, so I don’t expect a wild difference under saddle yet but I’m hoping I can at least get some better steps behind.
I would guess it’s almost certainly related…mine was also sore in his hind end and back, and it has taken a while to improve in that area, but he was obviously more comfortable right away. Again, not to overly anthropomorphize, but wearing high heels all the time would make our backs hurt too!
My horse was MORE sore at first but after the initial transition was so much better and has remained so.
This is what I am worried about! Thankfully last night he looked ok - but it could be after a day in the shoes he’ll be more sore today while he’s started to adjust. I’ll probably throw him on the lunge before getting on again just to keep an eye on it.
I really, really hope so - I’ve dug into quite a lot with this horse and while the neck OA and hock OA could absoLUTELY be causing his back pain as well, it just hasn’t added up to me considering his range of motion in both areas is so good. He can carrot stretch to his hip each way, still jumps great (we’re only jumping very small things), etc so while some back soreness wouldn’t shock me, I’ve always found it frustrating how consistent it has been for him this whole time. He’s got such a great dressage base that if I could get his back feeling even a little bit better then I could get him to stretch more and start an upward trajectory again towards feeling better. Ugh, fingers crossed big time for this!
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Hopefully the feet help with this! But I wanted to say that my neck/KS horse has crazy ROM in all directions, and is only stiff in the fetlock with a bone spur. One look at his X-rays and you’d wonder how on earth he’s doing it. He can do very good carrot stretches to his hips and all around, but his back pain is consistent and crippling (without drugs). Correcting angles will help ANY horse, but don’t be discouraged if the back pain doesn’t go away entirely. You’ll likely need to keep on top of the OA also, but fixing the feet can be a major step! These guys tend to be really particular about everything, because they’ve got so many issues to juggle in order to stay sound.
I would definitely recommend taking it slow with the new shoes. He may feel better, but soreness from major changes can show up later. And you wouldn’t want to strain/tear some soft tissue by pushing too hard. Remember wedges put strain on the tendons and ligaments in the leg, which is part of the reason to be careful with them. They aren’t benign - give him some time to adjust. IIWM, I’d just be walking for a week or so, and then start adding a bit of trot and go from there.
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That sounds like a great idea to me - honestly, he is an exceptionally lazy horse (and also has been a bit stiff laterally this winter), so he really needs a lot of work walking forward as well as doing some basic leg yields, shoulder in etc to help loosen him up gradually. I’ve been working more and more on this with him, but this week is a great week to really focus on it-and if he does feel better from these shoes, I think the change will even be notable at the walk under saddle so I am not dying to trot & canter to see how he is right now.
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This is all great advice - I basically tack walked for about 3 months last year when we first diagnosed the NPA. Our free walk is really good now lol…!
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The walk last night was an utter failure-he’s much less lazy in trot and canter but has always gotten sucked back in the walk no matter what I do. Last night I had to give him a few hard kicks and then decided eh, this feels a little abusive so I hopped off.
So, to handwalking we go for the next little while lol.
I will say his SI palpated extraordinarily well yesterday - he’s never drop-to-the-floor sore through his SI or anything, but he always palpates there with a decent twitch. Last night there was nothing which I was happy to see.
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Aww buddy!
For giggles, you could try some Surpass (or the human equivalent) on his legs. Or a good active poultice. Anything to knock down potential inflammation! He’s likely just sore and a little unsure about his new setup - hand walking and grazing sounds good to me.
Good luck! I wouldn’t worry, yet.
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