Post your Feet Pictures! (AKA: Good Hoof Stuff Every Horse Owner Should Know!)

[slb]

Martha…good topic!

I just looked as a pic of Java that I downloaded and see what you mean. Although the angle wasn’t good enough for me to make any comments, it was evident that you aren’t “seeing things”.

By definition, this is probably not sheared heels, but it could be the start. This is what my husband calls a “right handed” farrier fault. In other words, the farrier is not as skilled with the knife in one hand as he is in the other. Generally, he simply can’t reproduce a symetrical image on the other side of the foot.

Look from the back of the foot and see if the blulbs of the heels are in alignment and symetrical. If not, that is true sheaded heels and generally means that one side of the foot is higher than the other…M/L balance is off, but probably only in the rear of the foot.

Do take some more pics and see if we discover what the problem is.

Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

[slb]

Geezz guys…I do some work for a few days and you let this thread grind to a hault! Well, lets get back on track and get things “a movin’ and a shakin’”

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hilary:
slb - when you say pressure points under the pour-ins, do you mean they can create them, or just compress something that is already going on in there, and doesn’t show up b/c there isn’t anything compressing from the outside.

So when you say you need to relieve them, do you make a hole in the pour-in, or a divot in the sole?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, the pour-ins don’t normally create the pressure. It is that the spacial orientation of the coffin bone is generally not correct, therefore there already is internal pressure that needs to be considered. Without considering this, corium/solar burising can occur. The best way to test for this is to apply hoof testers and then remove or thin the area where the pressure points are revealed. Generally, this is in the area in front of the apex of the frog to the toe.

Making a divot in the sole would generate more problems because the sole is already compressed at those points, so further thinning would result in weakening it and probably more pain.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I’m excited to see if they help. Do you recommend equi-build/equipak? One thing the farrier is very concerned about is the “quality of life” for the sole when pads of any kind are used - she dislikes not being able to see it and mentioned there are clear products. I can’t really imagine that being able to see through a pad would really be of much benefit - it can’t be crystal clear, but want to assure her that all will be OK.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I must confess, I am not very up on all the pads, buid-ups, wedges, or even pour-ins. My main focus is in understanding hoof form and function and how best to trim to attain it. Shoeing doesn’t interest me much and I don’t have much more than a basic understanding of application…I can tell you if it looks like it is shod correctly, but I can’t really tell you how to apply these things to attain a goal.

If you read www.hopeforsoundness.com info on their application of dental impression material, I think that will give some insight…but I am not sure if they comment on trimming out the pressure spots in the download…it is in the video. Check under tech support/downloads/EDSS impression material app.

I agree with your farrier, the quality of life for the sole is very important. But, equally important is the support of the coffin bone and frog pressure to encourage correct mechanisim and improve circulation in the foot. I also agree with you that I don’t really think that there is any material “clear” enough to really see what’s going on underneath.

Hope I answered all your questions…if not, just ask again.

Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

[slb]

RugBug…
Those feet don’t look too bad
I would say overall that there might be a little underrun heel, the toe is a little long…look back over the posts about addressing breakover and placing the point of breakover just in front of the coffin bone and not at the end of the toe.

Also, check out the line of the hoof wall from top to bottom when viewed from the front. The sides look like they want to dish a little as they get to to bottom…just a little flare starting…this could be from an over grown hoof that needs trimming.

When the shoes are off, check to see if there is any white line seperation/stretching…this is a good indication of where the hoof wall is creating excess pressure from a toe that is too long or a flare (same thing).

And the lines…those pesky lines…where do they come from? That’s the question of the week…

Those are typically refered to as stress, fever, or founder rings. They can be caused by any number of things: stress, changes in management, illness, changes in weather (ground too wet/dry), nutritional needs/excesses. Often they are seen after a winter that causes rapid changes in the ground. What you see half way down the foot was created from changes that took place 3-6 months ago. They are typically not something to worry about. They will grow out and you can always hope that your horse’s life is so serene and unchanging that they never come back…LOL

Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

[shadytrake]

Right Front Solar…

[Robby_Johnson]

The thread that just won’t die!!!

OK, this morning I had a very pleasurable and educational shoeing experience with my farrier. I went out for Rhodey’s shoeing reset and we put him back in his squared off front shoes (the ones he wore for a week before we had the Big Whammy pulled on us).

I have been emailing my AFA/CJF farrier all of these links about correcting underrun heels and he took the opportunity to educate me on where he’s coming from. Clearly I cannot go into all of that here since it was so much information (my liberal arts mind can only process so much before my eyes start to cross), so I’ll just skip over to the good stuff.

It ended pretty well. The front toe(s) is now 3.25" with a 54 degree angle, and we have cut off and “floated” the heels hoping they will grow back down. The shoe is also set back and the toe is rolled/squared off. Behind we have neat “rocker toes,” that my farrier forged, to help keep the shoe on. Rhodey is a really bad stomper and kicks his stall wall quite a bit (he hates his next door neighbor). The farrier didn’t want/like to use clips - particularly on Rhodey - and here’s why.

The horse has virtually no hoof wall. And the other farrier took off all of the “side wall” that my farrier had been growing up front. My farrier said, “we are going to have to somewhat ‘cowboy shoe’ him until I get more wall on the sides to nail into.” As it is now, the nails come out really high up!

He does like the idea of doing the pour-in pads with Rhodey, but I opted not to this time since I’m not sure if he’ll have his shoes pulled for the bone scan in a few weeks.

The other issue we have is m/l balance and we have a bit of a conundrum because Rhodey could have the bony column on the left much more in line, but to do that the shoe has to be offset a tad with more trailing the inside; and he pulls those off as he is narrow and steps on himself (even with bell boots).

So maybe to correct this we’ll just start in small micro-millis? At this point, we need more wall anyway before we could even attempt it.

I gave Rhodey 1g Bute since he is usually sore for a few hours after a shoeing.

Thanks to this thread, I do feel like I’ve worked through an issue and have really been educated on an issue that I wasn’t familiar with at all. And my farrier was so kind and accommodating to me. It’s hopefully a win-win!

Robby

“Don’t mince words, don’t be evasive
Speak your mind, be persuasive”
Madonna

[Zephyr_sMom]

Just now found this post! I’ve been working with Zephyr’s feet for the last couple days. He saw the farrier 5 weeks ago for a trim, but was starting to flare. It will be another 3 weeks before the farrier is back.

I do not profess to be any kind of foot expert, nor have I ever worked on any other feet than his. However, a farrier-friend of mine gave me a rasp last summer, and told me to keep his feet cleaned up between farrier visits. I didn’t do all that much, nothing more than keep the edges from being rough and chipped.

I’ve been doing a lot of research in the last couple days since I noticed the flares starting again, in the hope of being less clumsy about trimming, and more knowledgeable. I also suspect my farrier rushes through the trim, an leaves a lot to be desired! I want to be able to talk to him about it and not sound like an idiot.

In particular, Zephyr’s left front foot tends to grow longer on the inside of his toe, and he develops a flare there. Also, his hind feet both have stretched white lines on the outsides with teeny tiny corresponding flares, and he stands a little bit toed out behind. Plus, he almost never stands square, behind. Usually, it’s the right hind foot that he places forward, and it’s usually by at least 12".

Can y’all take a look and give me your thoughts? FYI, he’s a 7yo gaited RMH/Arab, and he goes barefoot year round.

Some of the photos have a “before” shot on top, and an “after” shot on bottom. I’m sure there is still work to be done - today I tried to do only what I knew was OK, with the plan of coming here for guidance about what else needs to be done!

Here’s a link to a webshots album, with all the photos. I’ve made notes on the photos where appropriate. LOL http://community.webshots.com/album/38083743zOLXtA

Thanks in advance for any help you can give!
-Zephyr’s Mom

http://community.webshots.com/user/sharon_kenney1359

http://www.ZEGifts.com

[slb]

dressager…how frustrating and discouraging. I wonder if he also thinks that it is “natrual” for the white line to be stretched in the toe?

Would it be possible for you to rasp the toe back a little and rasp the heels down a little? Even if you are doing just a little every couple of weeks in between trims, it should help a lot.

Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

[wildhorses]

Hi,

I am real need of advice. We had a mare in foal have laminitis with some rotation on only one front foot.

She is 7 months along in pregnanacy. The vets believe it has been caused by the dramatically cold weather we recently had.

It has been 4 weeks and we have tried medications from the vet and some different types of herbs and she is very slowly showing signs of improvement but still very sore. X-rays show she has stopped rotating.

What do we do to help her now? They first wanted us to tape foam to her feet but that was diffcult. I read a lot about the natural trim but our farrier was insistent on putting shoes and pads on her because her soles are thin. I just don’t like the shoes idea because her frog and hoof are off the ground. I was thinking of pulling the shoes and putting a boot on like Old Macs to help her until her sole grows.

We have also started her on Farriers Formula to help speed up the growth.

Our vet said it is possible to use corrective trimming/shoeing to help correct the coffin position as the hoof grows but our farrier says no way.

Any advice?

[slb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bensmom:
My farrier and I are communicating better, but the jury is still out on Ben’s hind feet. The vet re-read the x-rays and says definitely that Ben is high on the inside of his hind feet. My farrier will still not agree with that, and took care of the hind flares by narrowing the foot, which I am not happy about.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bensmom…what exactly do you mean by “narrowing” the foot? The foot will look narrow if the flares are removed. If it looks too narrow, then most likely the toe needs backing up…but it may just look narrow as you are not used to looking at this configuration.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>slb – the frustrating thing about this farrier is that he is a very qualified machinist and ran a tremendously successful brake and alignment shop before becoming a farrier. He can fix/fashion from scratch anything and makes the best handmade shoes. When he is on board with the vet and with me, he can work wonders – i.e. Buzz’s wedge steel eventers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is strange with a background like that…most people with these skills find it easy to think out of the box.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But, we have this central disagreement about what the foot behind is telling us. I can SEE the medial/lateral imbalance with the outside low and he insists that because that side of the foot hits the ground first, it is the high side. Is this what the textbooks teach? I can’t figure out how to deal with this philosophical problem. When shown the x-rays, he suggested the x-ray film was flopped. HUH?!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bensmom…I’m soooo confused!!!
You are talking about the left hind, correct? I don’t see that if that is the correct foot.

Sometimes the x-rays do get flipped, but I don’t think this is the case. But, I am sooo confused at this point. Verify which foot we are taking about and I will tell you exactly what I see.

Robby…this is great…sounds like things are on track…maybe you can post new pics after a couple of trims so we can see progress.

Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

[HossShoer]

Wilt is a 15 yr. 17.2hh Han. G. with the toughest feet in the world. I’ve him since he was 6 and I hardly ever shoe him. Anyway last spring he was out being Joe Stud and ordering around everyone in the field and ripped up his back foot. I cut off the rip above the cononary band and wrapped it with a poltice for a month or so and stallrested him for 3 months. Then put on just a plain shoe and filled the sole with the Equithane Quick set, the really hard stuff and turned him out till the shoe fell off.Now you have to be down on your hands and knees with your nose a few inches from the seam where the rip was to see the area where he ripped off his heal. I deal with a lot of old quarter cracks and they never seem to heal up like this one did. I think the extended stall rest was the best thing to do.

[This message was edited by HossShoer on Jan. 05, 2003 at 12:07 PM.]

[HossShoer]

Creseida, OK how about leaving out the 3 rd & 4 th nails and grind off the clip??? Having the clip down and with a hook on it really bothers me, cause I think it is jabbing into the wall and not really doing any good. Or a gob of acrylic at the bottom of the foot for the clip to rest against???
Interesting case.
Regards J.

[GrayHorseStudio]

as above, right front

Kathleen
http://www.grayhorsestudio.com
*member of artist clique
*devout worshipper of the American Thoroughbred
*member of the vertically-gifted clique
*owner of the most expensive “cheap” horse and dog EVER

[In_The_Gate]

Right front sole

Valerie
~VWiles02@yahoo.com~
UC Davis student

[creseida]

MissCapitalSplash, why would you think you’d be offensive by telling someone their horse has GOOD feet? I’m not offended at all, and Cressy would be barefoot in winter except for two reasons…

The primary reason is (in the attached photo) her left hind is deformed. If you look carefully, the hoof wall narrows (and flares) by 1/4 inch for the entire outside quarter. The wall is thin, and will develop a crack where the “dent” is. With shoes, it poses no problem and does not crack.

~<>~ Remember, the Ark was built by a rank amateur; the Titanic was built by a team of experts~<>~

[slb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HossShoer:
slb, that’s the best explanation of the “other” trim and her disciples I’ve ever seen.
You in politics or what???LOL<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL, HossShoer, when you spend 3 years posting on the Strasser board to subtly dispute her treachings, you learn to be a politician so you don’t get kicked off or flamed.

You make a good point that should be well taken…if owners spent some time learning what farriers are taught, then they would gain new perspectives of hoof care. This is definately a time of change in the farriery sciences and some of the best information is offered at farrier conferences. There was recently an online conference for $150 (I think). It presented the latest and greatest in new ideas on hoof care. It was open to the public and everyone that participated seemed very impressed with the way it went. There will be another next year…check out Horseshoes.com for more information and a great place to ask farriers and experienced owners about hoof care.

[slb]

Katarine…hmmm, I have a 25 yo QH that resembles this…legs go first one way then the other, toed out, just a mess. However, he is sound and barefoot and has been for several years…my husband began trimming him before he came to live with us. He was a real mess to start with.

He is probably too sore when barefoot because he needs the heel support that the shoes afford. Simply cutting his toes back to where they belong will help in moving the heels back. The other imbalances need to be addressed in a similar manner. Flares are excess growth…it doesn’t matter if they are on the side or the toe, they need to be removed. The reason you have a flare is because there is excess pressure from the straight up side opposit it. Commonly this is the cause of flaring…opposite pressure.

Check out Hope for Soundness for more info on correctly balanced trims. The best stuff is in their tutorial and newsletters. Also, there is a BB there for asking questions of some top notch farriers. They also have a video and will soon be releasing an owner targeted instructional video on correctly balanced trimming.

Perhaps Hoss Shoer will be by to add to this. It will also be helpful when we see your pics. None of this is “just the horse”, or “the way nature intended”, it is simply an unbalanced foot.

[slb]

Some good questions Martha

First, anatomically, if the horn tubules are not growing straight and in the direction they are supposed to, the hoof wall is weak. There is a lack of interlocking mechanism and spaces develop between the tubules.

As far as some horses having dishes…generally never. Conformation does not directly attribute to the shape of the foot, but the shape of the foot can directly contribute to conformation (if that makes sense). For example, a horse with unbalanced, misaligned feet can be buck kneed, or severaly over at the knee. Unbalanced feet can cause muscle atrophy in the hip or shoulder areas. They can also cause back or other pain that is often attributed to a poor fitting saddle (that happens to, but this is about feet). Such back/muscle pain can cause altered gait, changes in stance, changes in muscle mass (increase or decrease).

Essentially, a dish in the toe is nothing more than a flare. This presents a simple question: If you don’t think a flare in the quarter is correct, then why would you think that one in the toe was?

To remove the dish…in many cases it can simply be treated as a flare…remove the flare, the pressure is removed, the tubules start growing straight and the foot becomes healthier. Sometimes this requires aggressive backing up of the toe.

In short, the foot should generally have a stright profile from the hairline to the ground. Any time there is a dish, there is a weakening in the foot. While there are of course exceptions…generally when there is a dish, there is pressure on the white line, the tubules and the coronary band. All of these things result in poor hoof health and loss of integrity. The best remedy is to remove the pressure…that is to shorten the toe and enhance breakover. But, it must also be remembered that none of this is the answer, if the rest of the foot isn’t balanced or correctly aligned.

[HossShoer]

Wow, nice weather ya got there.
Why does she have shoes on???
By corked up I mean calks to keep her from slipping. Big, small or none.
Does your farrier hot fit her???
With all that mud it must be rough just keeping the shoes on.
I hate spring for that reason. Most of the time I really tighten up the fit till things dry up, then move up a size or two.
Regards John

[slb]

Yes Martha, the heel on the NB trim is still underrun…I noted it as a work in progress…this was a first trim to realign and balance this foot. Didn’t see a before, so don’t know what all was done. Most horses should not look like that…although as you noted, most do.

I will reread your post and look at the feet then make comments in a bit.

Here is another natural trim. This hoof is much better in the heal area.

[HossShoer]

Creseida, if I recall the picture correctly, the lateral quarter clip wasn’t doing anything, except laying down flat. Just a suggestion to draw a toe clip and burn it into the toe to just give the shoe a little more stability.
Just what is this horse doing for a living???
How corked up is it???
Regards John