Practice jumper rounds at horse trials

[Sticky_Situation]

Agreed. I grew up in Pony Club, and at the time we were required to be self-sufficient … the “coach” could only interact with us in warmup and on the course walk, and our parents could only interact with us away from the stables during lunch breaks and such. Otherwise we were on our own (aside from our fellow pony club kids) to care for our horses, handle our nerves, get ready to ride, etc. Nobody got practice rounds over the competition fences, and the trainer couldn’t get on and school the horse. It was expected that you rode a suitable horse that you could handle on your own, even if it wasn’t the fanciest or best looking thing in the world. Sometimes we got eliminated or did badly … but each team had a drop score so it gave you all the more reason to cheer your friends on. I’ve heard pony club is a lot different these days so I don’t know if it’s all still true, but 20 years ago it was.

I miss that kind of mentality. I’m glad I got to experience it, because now I have no problem going to competitions without a trainer, and it makes me prioritize having a horse that I can ride without the trainer having to repeatedly tune him up for me. I have a long-standing relationship with my trainer and she’s awesome, but I’m not “in a program” and I don’t need to be. I feel sorry for people who never got to experience riding without being “in a program.”

[trubandloki]

@Sticky_Situation

I’ve heard pony club is a lot different these days so I don’t know if it’s all still true, but 20 years ago it was.

I am curious, what have you heard that is totally different?

The only thing I find not accurate in your ‘back in the day’ post is that the neutral zone does not have times associated with it. If you (general) are melting down at 9am and your parents are in the neutral zone you can go there and visit with them for some support.
Oh, and you saying that each team has a drop score is not 100% accurate. A team is not required to have four riders, a team can compete with three riders, and then they do not have a drop score.

I personally have no problem with “in a program” for those people whose life means that is the only way they can ride and enjoy horses. I think pony club* and other situations where people learn horse management skills are also a great thing. Different things for different people, both with a positive side.

*Pony club has some out dated teachings that frequently make me want to scream, but…

[Pennywell_Bay]

@Sticky_Situation

I feel sorry for people who never got to experience riding without being “in a program.”

I have friends who ,due to life circumstances, would not be able to ride without having her horse a program with a trainer. It definitely is not for me, but it works for some people.

[Janet]

@trubandloki

I am curious, what have you heard that is totally different?

I am older.
I was in Pony Club 50+ years ago (graduate B), and I have been TD at several modern PC rallies in the last 5-10 years (from small regional rallies to “Festival”).

Then-

(Unless your mother was the team chaperone) you didn’t see your parents/family/coach from the moment they dropped you and your horse at the facility, until they picked you up at the end of the competition. Not during the competition day, not in the evening, not overnight.

We were housed in some sort of group housing: one year the rally was at a boarding school and we stayed in the dorms. Another year we slept in sleeping bags in school classrooms. Another year we slept in the spare bedroom of families associated with the hosting PC.

We walked the courses with our own team members, and discussed strategy amongst ourselves. We helped our team mates warm up.

(With a team of 4) there was a drop score for each phase (dressage, cross country, show jumping, written test, stable management). I think this is still true.

Now -

The Pony Clubbers stay in hotel rooms with their parent/families, and have unlimited contact with parents and coaches after they leave the rally grounds. They also have contact with them in the “neutral zone” during the competition day. (In some facilities the neutral zone is neither well defined not well enforced.)

Coaches walk the courses with the competitors, discuss the strategy, warm them up to compete, and review the results. They also do not hesitate to complain to the TD if they do not like something about the courses.

I understand that there are safety and liability reasons for these changes, but the level of self sufficiency required is MUCH less.

ETA that I do not think we were allowed to start with a team of 3. For my last rally before going off to college, I was not planning to compete at rally, but had my arm twisted that, if I didn’t go, three other riders, who really did want to go, wouldn’t be able to.

Also, ALL rallies were Combined Training (aka Horse Trials). No straight dressage, no straight show jumping, etc.

[trubandloki]

@Janet, I think that if sleeping accommodations and enough chaperones to supervise (and properly feed) an entire rally worth of kids were a requirement there would be far fewer rallies now days.
We have a hard enough time finding a facility capable of hosting a one day rally, let alone a facility that we could accomplish all that other stuff.

I do agree that the neutral zone is not well enforced. It drives me crazy.

[LuvMyTB]

Interesting topic. I grew up in the h/j world, switched to eventing as an adult, and now giving jumpers & straight dressage a go. I also teach lower level h/j & eventing.

I can see both sides of this argument. I was lucky enough to learn the ropes of eventing from people who had done it for a long time and really understood/valued the spirit of the sport. I’ve often internally rolled my eyes at the h/j shows I attend with clients, where EVERY student schools EVERY jump they’re going to jump in competition. I’ve looked at the eventing philosophy/questions as more “real” or more legitimate in a lot of ways.

On the other hand…I personally have chosen to move away from eventing due to time and money. I work a full time job in addition to teaching part time. Area IV has lost a few venues. The time and cost to travel to school XC has become prohibitive; there are a couple of nearby places, but how many times do you need to school the same jumps?

So, if I myself am struggling with some of those issues, so are my students. Our head trainer doesn’t have the time to haul 2+ hours to school a new XC course without canceling a ton of lessons and therefore losing money. Kids who can’t drive have parents who don’t have the time to take them. Working adult ammys may not have the time either, and the way the economy is going–finances will quickly become even more of an issue.

For my clients–we school what we can at home, attend only 2 local venues (one schooling, one rated) so we know what to expect, and hope for the best. For myself, like I said, I’ve chosen to move away from it; as costs rise, venues close, and land is sold out to developers, it will be–IS–harder and harder to find a foothold in this particular discipline. I think offering schooling rounds, while maybe not ideal or traditional, may help fill that gap and help keep a few more people in the sport.

[Highflyer1]

I was in pony club in the late 80s and 90s and other than the neutral zone thing those changes were all standard then.

[Sticky_Situation]

@trubandloki

I am curious, what have you heard that is totally different?

For one thing, you can “specialize” in a certain discipline and take ratings only in that discipline, instead of being required to ride dressage, cross country, showjumping, and gymnastics at all the ratings. I heard talk a while back of also adding hunter and western “tracks” due to declining membership to try to reach those markets as well, although I don’t know if that ever happened or not because I haven’t had much interaction with pony club in recent years.

There are also fewer actual “official” pony club lessons and clinics and the kids more so just ride with their own trainers and do pony club in addition, at least in my area.

It sounds like they’re still requiring a certain degree of independence from the kids, which I think is good, even if it’s softened a bit from “back in the day.”

*Pony club has some out dated teachings that frequently make me want to scream, but…

Also true. But even with it’s imperfections I think it’s a better way for kids to grow up around horses than either the “trainer is god and you are dependent on them” model, or just cowboying around with no guidance whatsoever.

[Janet]

@trubandloki

@Janet, I think that if sleeping accommodations and enough chaperones to supervise (and properly feed) an entire rally worth of kids were a requirement there would be far fewer rallies now days.
We have a hard enough time finding a facility capable of hosting a one day rally, let alone a facility that we could accomplish all that other stuff.

I recognized that there are legitimate reasons for the changes. I was answering the question: “What is totally different?”

[Janet]

@Sticky_Situation

There are also fewer actual “official” pony club lessons and clinics and the kids more so just ride with their own trainers and do pony club in addition, at least in my area.

Yes, from age 12 to 17, all but 1 or 2 lessons were through Pony Club.

[trubandloki]

@Sticky_Situation

For one thing, you can “specialize” in a certain discipline and take ratings only in that discipline, instead of being required to ride dressage, cross country, showjumping, and gymnastics at all the ratings. I heard talk a while back of also adding hunter and western “tracks” due to declining membership to try to reach those markets as well, although I don’t know if that ever happened or not because I haven’t had much interaction with pony club in recent years.

I thought we were talking about rallies. Yes, they have added various tracks one can do for ratings. I think that is a good thing. It allows the kid who does not have access to a horse that can jump higher jumps to still up their rating.
Yes, there is western.

@Sticky_Situation

There are also fewer actual “official” pony club lessons and clinics and the kids more so just ride with their own trainers and do pony club in addition, at least in my area.

I think this is club specific. I know clubs that do mounted meetings once a week.

[Sticky_Situation]

@trubandloki

I thought we were talking about rallies. Yes, they have added various tracks one can do for ratings. I think that is a good thing. It allows the kid who does not have access to a horse that can jump higher jumps to still up their rating.
Yes, there is western.

Different tracks with western, hunters, etc are a big change from how it used to be, but that is not a bad thing … as long as the requiring independence and good horsemanship (not just riding and doing whatever the trainer says) part is still incorporated!

[trubandloki]

Allowing adults to join is also a big change from ‘back in the day’. Like I said above, I thought we were talking about how rallies are run.
I have been a member of pony club for less than a decade and the additional tracks are new since I joined even.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

I can confirm that Hunter and Western tracks have been officially added to Pony Club disciplines. The addition of disciplines just adds to the challenge of providing mounted instruction and competition opportunities (rallies) that meet all the members’ needs. In widening its mission to attract more members, I think Pony Club - like other many other organizations - has added a nail to its coffin. I hope it can continue to exist in the US, but I am not especially optimistic.

Along the lines of this discussion but at a much lower level, about 10 years ago I campaigned (successfully) to allow youth entered in jumping classes at the state 4-H fair to have the opportunity to ride an unjudged warm-up round in the competition arena. It is a spooky arena, many of the youth were not well-prepared for the jumping classes, and the whole objective was to increase safety and have the actual judged class elicit fewer gasps from the spectators. There were some leaders/volunteers who opposed the idea for some of the same general reasons as in this thread - mainly that the state Fair is not the time for “training”. Interestingly, many of them were also eventers.

Carry on…

[trubandloki]

@Groom_amp_Taxi

There were some leaders/volunteers who opposed the idea for some of the same general reasons as in this thread - mainly that the state Fair is not the time for “training”.

But…most kids do not have the ability to train next to a ferris wheel, arcade games and a bunch of random bovine breeds being lead around.

[Sticky_Situation]

4-H kids at the state fair are also usually competing in hunter o/f classes, of which jumping unfamiliar obstacles on the first try has never been a significant part of the expected challenge and warm-up rounds/schooling the fences have a long history of being accepted.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@trubandloki

I thought we were talking about rallies. Yes, they have added various tracks one can do for ratings. I think that is a good thing. It allows the kid who does not have access to a horse that can jump higher jumps to still up their rating.

I rode at a barn that had a Pony Club chapter, and I’ll also add that when they did this, I breathed a huge sigh of relief, because there were kids who were good at dressage, hands-on with horsemanship, but really had no business jumping anything of significant size. If the kids don’t have their own horses, barns often don’t allow the kids to jump very high on-premises, and if the kids wanted to move up the levels, they ended up jumping much higher in competition than they did regularly in practice, and it was scary. Also, kids have less time in general to ride…and for kids who genuinely prefer dressage IMHO there isn’t much value in spending tons of time getting the skills to jump higher, safely.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

Depends on the state!

[enjoytheride]

I think that we can either change how we do things or we will no longer be able to do those things.

[Sticky_Situation]

That statement is not wrong per se … but none of the challenges to the long term survival of events/eventing or safety concerns in the sport are solved by letting people school the competition showjump course, aside from maybe making some extra money to help the event stay afloat if it’s struggling.

Lack of open land, lack of willing organizers and volunteers, horse and rider safety over solid obstacles, and prevalent “animal rights”-type beliefs among the public are significant concerns for the longevity of eventing. The Novice riders being expected to jump a few fences they haven’t schooled and possibly not having a good round — not so much.