prejudice and foxhunting

I think the ‘non-multitasking horse’ must be a north american phenomenon…

I can’t speak for continental Europe but in the UK and Ireland horses (and riders!) generally do do a bit of everything.

My 14.2 hunted, evented, showjumped and competed in showing classes. I have also hunted a friend’s 4* event horse who also won the working hunter championship at the Royal International as a 5 year old and showjumped up to 1.40m.
Said friend also has a horse who was best mare in the Burghley Young Event Horse final about 3 years ago. Her 14 year old daughter competes this mare very successfully in Intermediate (ie 15 - 15.2h) Working Hunter classes, while mum events her at novice level and showjumps up to 1.30m, and also hunts her in the winter.

As vickyrider said, there are obviously people who only ride to hunt, and therefore probably wouldn’t win any style awards, but I think they know that and couldn’t care less!

I also think US ‘hunter’ classes are a bit of a joke in that they bear no relation to hunting whatsoever - perhaps they should be renamed ‘show horse over fences’ or something similar? Then ‘hunters’ could be reclaimed by those horses who can actually hunt!

I have overheard instructors (Was I taking a lesson?) criticize riders after foxhunting: seat has reverted to a more defensive posture.

I have heard instructors criticize a horse taken hunting: horse is not paying enough attention to rider and rider is giving indistinct signal.

Well, thats foxhunting. The rider sits there and enjoys the scenery while the horse does all the work of getting from where you are to where you want to be. Speed, terrain and obstacles fall under “duty of horse” while enjoying scenery and sights fall under “duty of rider”. Its lucky horses enjoy foxhunting as much as us and willing to take us with them.

Not show hunter stuff. Not dressage.

My hunt had the same forfeiture for falling off - bottle of champagne, and not the cheap stuff either.

I remember some joke going around that described the attitude of the riders of each discipline. Show hunters didn’t like the field hunters because they ran their horses at fences, field hunters didn’t like the show hunters because they couldn’t get over a course if their trainer didn’t tell them how many strides there were, no one liked the dressage riders because they didn’t ride real horses - remember that one? It was pretty funny. Maybe because it held a kernel of truth - I dunno.

I’ve seen some of the best riding in the hunt field. I mean really classy, elegant, lovely equitation. Poetry in motion. I’ve seen people that could use a little help (me among them to be honest) etc. And the horses - well - you know - a field hunter is priceless. Which is why I had to make my own - can’t afford one.

I think a lot of people who complain about field hunters are also the ones insisting that their clients take endless lessons, only do certain shows, get rid of a horse that doesn’t have whatever the trainer thinks it needs to have (but they just happen to have the perfect horse for you) etc. Or maybe they have become so used to the arena, perfect footing, and the desire to show that they forgot what a good cross country gallop feels like. If they ever knew it at all.

Oddly enough, I think many of these apparantly substandard horses end up in the hunt field - where they carry their riders boldly and joyfully over hill and dale - with the wind in their manes and the sounds of the horn and thundering hooves in their ears. The riders may not have the perfect equitation, but they can get their horse fit, keep it sound, take a fence at high speed in uncertain footing without batting an eye (although a stiff drink afterward is an option)

Perhaps I’m romanticizing - yeah - almost time for bed. Sleepy. Sorry.

I recently saw my old dressage instructor - I learned a lot from him. But he was strict - I was forbidden to canter my horse for a year (yeah - like that was going to happen)

Anyway - he told me how disappointed he was to hear I took up hunting and how I’d wasted all the money I’d spent on dressage training. I said no way - I use more dressage in the field than I ever did in the arena. He looked surprised.

But really - there are all kinds of horses and riders hunting - and the skills and abilities vary. I’m not an adrenaline junkie myself - but there is a bit of an “extreme sport” aspect of foxhunting that many people just don’t identify with. That’s perfectly ok. As much as I love dressage - I’d rather apply it as it was meant to be used than practice it endlessly. Just my preference.

As far as the field hunters not training their horses to jump properly - consider this. If your horse messes up in the arena you knock a rail down. Foxhunting - a mistake can kill you. Those coops and fences are meant to keep livestock in. They don’t budge. And you are far from ambulances and helicopters. Nah - the horses may not be flashy jumpers - but they’re good ones. Generally. If not - they hilltop.

I’m with you Equibrit…horses can be multitalented…

Opinions are great and to each their own, and prejudices are there…what is being said here is more of a stereotype than an opinion or prejudice.

Equibrit, your horses are well rounded, which is why they are probably some of the best foxhunters!

Bovon, did you go hunting today?? How did your horse do?

Ok…I’ve decided to take my spooky grey TB hunting on Wednesday. We went jumping out in an open field today and he listened nicely then we went back to the ring where he jumped a course and before that we did some basic dressage which I think is damn hard (ever try to make an absolutley perfect 20m circle…ugh…) but has made him a better all around horse. I took him to a hunter show last weekend where after trotting around 3x he said “screw it” and through in a couple of canter strides and a baby buck cause he was feeling good and getting bored. We did do a nice jump round though even though some brat called him a “backcracker” I’m not sure what that is but I don’t think it was a compliment. Let me just say that if he does well on Wednesdasy or heck if we just survive and don’t get too crazy I will be one proud mama. I’m trying to get him to be the best eventer/foxhunter he can be so wish me luck!!

Um, backcracker is a good thing. And posted on eventing as well, why?

I guess I am a little confused why the snarky attitude about this kid? First off, who cares what an ankle-biter has to say. Secondly, why did you take it as an insult.

Just do your thing and no worries.

Equibrit: I’ve done dressage. NOt at high levels. I understand the value of it in training a horse. Just don’t get it as an end goal.

I think the ‘non-multitasking horse’ must be a north american phenomenon… Non multi-tasking riders are the problem!

I can understand jumpers and eventing but I don’t get dressage and hunter competitions. Seems like an awful lot of work just so that you can ride for two minutes at a very slow pace.

Please don’t use hunters and dressage in the same sentence - I think you should try dressage and then explain to me how slow the pace is!

Equibrit - stop - you’re messing up the streotype about foxhunters! What you are is a good horseman and your horses are well-trained mounts.

I’m one of those people that can’t ride worth a damn regardless of discipline. Lessons can’t make up for a complete and utter lack of talent. I mess up the bell curve I guess - maybe people like me are the ones people refer to when they talk about poor riding in the hunt field.

Great topic! I am one who does take lessons, mostly during the off season, and feel it is an absolute necessity for me. I have a young Perch/TB that I just started this past year as a hilltopper, and although he’s been great, we have plenty to work on.

Last weekend I observed the first flight taking a rather large coop downhill into a big open cow pasture. Horses were pulling, rushing,refusing, overjumping and hanging their hind feet on it. There was every type of rider form you could imagine. Then there was the cute, fit mare, out for her 3rd time, at the very back of the field who strided evenly to the coop, and jumped it perfectly! So did her rider. I happen to know that this pair works consistently in the ring and X-country. It shows and is paying off in the hunt field.

Anyone see the article in the March issue of “Covertside”, “It’s About Horses…Pulling and Rushing”? Great article on schooling for hunt horses and riders.

Happy hunting everyone!

Your thoughts on prejudices existing are right on I think. Somehow we are more comfortable with just our own kind! I prefer the company of foxhunters absolutely! And that snobbishness to me means they just don’t understand…or get it…or even had the chance to try it. Different strokes! I really admire those of you who venture out into “dressage-land” or “eventing-land”! Isn’t it SCARY???
But I do, of course, think the other disciplines are much, much more snobby or haughty about their endeavors than we foxhunters! We are friendlier! Well…some of us are!!

I think alot depends on who you hunt with and where. I have found in my experience hunting that you get a wide variety of riders and just as wide a variety of horses, and an even wider variety of skills and abilities.
Our hunt has people who have/still are actively eventing, pony clubbers, pleasure trail riders, hunter riders, and on and on. We even have a few who have never had a lesson in their lives and don’t care for any thank you very much. The horses are just as varied. Personally, if I am going to do something I like to try to learn as much as I can and to do it correctly. I come from a hunter background, grew up showing as a kid for years and years and now just foxhunt. But I still have good, albeit rusty after all these years, basics and take lessons when I can. Then we have others who can ride well enough to stay on their long suffering saint of a horse and that’s good enough for them.
I guess one of the most positive things about hunting is that it isn’t a competition. As long as you are respectful of the hunt, and the hounds and you and your horse aren’t a danger to yourself or anyone else it’s ok. Some people ride to hunt, others hunt to ride, that’s just the way it is.

armandh and SteeleRdr - that’s what I took the post to mean. Not that the rider is merely a passenger - but that the horse doesn’t need to be micromanaged or finagled and the rider doesn’t have to have this intense focus on the horse. The horse knows its job.

When I relate stories about the day’s hunting to non hunting friends, they express amazement that I can gallop across a field without strong contact, or that my horse isn’t freaked by hounds jumping out of hedges or running between his legs, or that I’d jump a coop without making sure the footing was good on the other side, etc. My good friend who focuses on dressage will not take her horse out of the arena. Never. Trail rides would “ruin” her dressage.

Just different worlds.

Originally posted by SteeleRdr:
by saying that I just sit there in the field is kind of insulting, and most that are on here should take offense.

well yes and no
when you and your mount have hunted enough that the responses of the horse are almost automatic, waiting only for a turn of the head or slight nudge, then you are able to leave the going to the horse and enjoy the hunt more. as you note, it takes time to train to that level.

This has been an interesting thread…thanks for all the posts. I take lessons as often as I can afford to 3-4 times per month… dressage and jumping lessons alternately…I have to otherwise I’d get killed out in the open field. I also work my horses up and down hills and out in the woods as much as I can. Some of us need alot of help with riding! One thing I like about foxhunting (in my very limited esperience) is that I get to expose my horse and myself to something new plus work on our abilities together. I always hope we’ll be up to the task but at the same time I don’t have to think about being judged and scored like at an actual show. Plus it’s outside with nature and hounds and other horsey people and this may be weird but I just love the turn-out especially the pink coats. (It’s about the only activity I like getting “dressed up” for otherwise I’m kind of a jeans and sweatshirt gal) That’s just way too cool and beautiful with the horses and the hounds. So here I am like a kid counting the days till I can foxhunt again…

That same attitude contributes to the idea that because you have jumped/evented/(fill-in-the-blank) the horse, you must be able to hunt him.
So people show up never having, say, galloped in a group.
Actually, most people are surprised that fox hunting even exists, even horse people. They think we all bring a “dog” and carry guns. No kidding.
As far as lessons and form goes, I find that the more correct your form the safer and more efficient the occasion. btw, I have awful form over fences but at least I recognise it and endlessly endevor to imporve!

many, many foxhunt riders who rarely take any form of instruction .

Hay! I resemble that comment!

But realy, foxhunting horses are siants! After all, who but saints could put up with most foxhunting riders?

A lot of my students come to me to for dressage lessons on their foxhunters.Basically, I help them to develop their horses’ hindquarters and become better balanced and off their forehand. Once we have established this, coupled with the riders’ understanding of the seat and leg aids (so many of them are too much hand)I do a lot of caveletti and grid work, both on level ground and up and down hill. The horses and the riders are much happier and safer in the hunt field as a result… In essence, what your dressage person was telling you has a lot of truth to it, as there are many, many foxhunt riders who rarely take any form of instruction .