Good points! I will definitely ask some questions while I am there. I don’t think she is continuing to show him now so I won’t be able to see him. For the money they are asking though, I really think they need to get one event in with the trainer riding if it is a rider issue. I just don’t want another TB that can’t relax in dressage. Scores are so competitive here at the lower levels it blows the chances of placing.
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Are the penalties stadium rails or stops?
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Rails
Sounds like you’re shopping for the right qualities. Most sound horses should be able to get around 2’11”. But whoever wins is going to do it on their dressage score. So you’re basically looking for a brave dressage horse. Which is a bit of a unicorn anyhow!
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Yea I agree…my first horse (going back to the 90s) was perfect for Novice. He was kind of a chicken for some of the Training questions (hated ditches, combinations, etc.) but I could always count on a decent score at Novice. Back then I wanted to move up the levels so I was never satisfied. Now I’m looking for his clone…I just want to go out and have a good time with it these days. Too old to be that brave, lol!!
I’m shopping right now for a straight dressage prospect. The market is always so much better when you aren’t looking!
For a solid novice horse who can lay down a good dressage score because they are accurate but not overly fancy, clean(ish) stadium, solid XC, but doesn’t scream training level I’d expect $9-15k. I’m seeing a ton of 4-6 year old OTTBs that are not much more than W/T/C and maybe jumping a few fences selling for $7,500+ in my area. I am actually not seeing a lot of 9-12 year olds. That is a dead zone locally. The market picks back up with the 13+ who are often not much more advanced than the 4-6 year olds in the sub $15k price point.
Being in Ky you have such an advantage. I’m in SC and it is slim pickings.
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Thanks! It’s funny because I have never bought a horse locally. I see a ton in FL or the northeast right now. I think horses are more word of mouth around here. I guess the grass is always greener elsewhere.
The horse I am looking at is on the high end of your scale. His competition record is just pretty dismal though. I think he COULD lay down a nice dressage test but hasn’t done so yet.
What are his dressage scores?
Average is about 40. He has improved a bit though and last event was low 30s.
At the event in the low 30s, was he competitively placed? It’s important to look at how they place as well, I think. For example was it a 32 score and in last place? Or mid pack? Even when he scored in the 40s - was it mid pack with the top score being a low 30s?
My mare are and I struggle in the dressage. Like, a lot. A lot of it is me, and I know if I improve my accuracy our scores will get much better. But my mare jumps clean and I’ve never had an xc jump penalty on her (I did fall off during our training move up but it was after the fence, she jumped it lol) and she rarely has rails. To me, a horse who is safe and jumps clean is what’s most important. I’ll add too that we frequently move up to the ribbons, even if we’re in last place or really bottom of the pack after dressage.
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He was 4th I believe after dressage but two rails then dropped him out of the placings. That was by far his best placing; the scores in the 40s put him near the bottom.
I agree with you that a good xc horse is most important. But the price is at the top of my budget and I am just wondering if if it is worth the risk to take a horse that has really shown nothing in several years at BN and N.
Low 30’s is really not bad - though around HERE (Area 2, VA and MD) you won’t place high if you’re in an Open division at the lower levels by finishing on that. :nonchalance: We have divisions full of pros and ULRs on really high quality youngsters who are lovely, elastic movers and have steady and submissive brains; scores in the low to mid 20s are common.
If he is consistently improving and his scores are “trending” better, that’s at least encouraging!
IME, higher (worse) scores tend to be correlated with tension and/or anticipation (certainly true in the case of my mare, who gives me her usual good, relaxed work in warmup, then when she gets into the dressage ring, anticipates every movement and gets bracey and tight in her back since she KNOWS I will “ride the pattern” and not change things up.) I address this by hauling to a local venue with a set up dressage ring and pretending we are at a show by “warming up” outside the ring, then going around the outside of it; she immediately gets tense when she is near the boards :lol::rolleyes:, but I “foil” her by going down center line and instead of doing the test, I do LOTS of changes of direction, bend, transition, lateral work - and then she settles! Mwahaha! If I do this the week before a show she gives me a MUCH better test in competition because she waits and listens, remembering what I did the last time “inside the boards”, and tuning in to me.
(Damn mares.)
Some riders also get show nerves and transmit them to the horse, stop riding, tense up, etc.when they are in the ring.
IOW there might be a few different things going on. Obviously no way to really know unless you have video of warmup AND the actual test!
As for the rails? Hmmm. Horse shouldn’t be getting multiple, regular rails at BN and N unless they are badly ridden.
That would concern me. Can you find out anything about the rider? Did they provide jumping video? IF it’s all a rider problem, that may be something he can overcome…
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The rail thing is definitely annoying, especially if your goal is to be competitive. There are so many possible reason so for the rails so it’s really hard to say without a video. It sounds like the horse is local so it’s worth a shot to check out. As someone else mentioned, the owner may have videos that s/he wasn’t planning on putting in the sale ad for whatever reason, but is willing to show buyers that comes out. Also they may be negotiable on price, doesn’t hurt to ask if you’re serious about buying him.
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Yes, agree :yes:
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Honestly if he was consistently at low to mid 30s I’d be okay with it. But everything else has been mid 30s and up…most in the 40s. They go up to almost 50. I’ve had quite a few tense horses in my lifetime and to me that is really high, even with tension. But I haven’t done a real event since the dark ages so my sense of scoring may be skewed!
Maybe the rider is just overfaced with this horse…he is big and looks to be pretty powerful. She has a couple of other horses on her record and dressage scores have been about the same on them but fewer rails and overall scores are lower.
The only video I currently have is with the trainer up and just a couple of jumps.
I resent that statement:lol:!
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😂😂🤔
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Up to almost 50?!? :eek:
Yeah, um. Between that and the consistent rails, I would be a bit alarmed and wonder what was going on - especially if this horse is advertised at the higher end of the price range you’re looking in. That and his age raise a few red flags. Why are they selling?
Maybe this rider needs needs more lessons and practice and work at home and fewer competitions until SHE can ride more consistently. Not everyone “shows well.”
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Up to almost 50?!? :eek:
Yeah, um. Between that and the consistent rails, I would be a bit alarmed and wonder what was going on - especially if this horse is advertised at the higher end of the price range you’re looking in. That and his age raise a few red flags. Why are they selling?
Maybe this rider would benefit from more lessons and practice and work at home and fewer competitions until SHE can ride more consistently. Not everyone “shows well.”
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Yea I have a strong suspicion this is a big part of the problem. They said lack of time is the reason they are selling but might be a lack of overall interest. This horse is truly the best fit for me that I have seen locally but I just think he is going to be out of the running unless they are really negotiable in the price.
