Progressively worse stall aggression

[Akogler]

You have gotten great advice here.

Gastric ulcers can be in the squamous part of the stomach or the glandular part or both. Glandular ulcers are much harder to treat than squamous.

I had a similar horse. He was not aggressive to me but terribly so to other horses and also terribly herd bound. I treated him with Gastrogard but it didnt really help. I put him on Succeed and that helped a little. Scoping revealed glandular ulcers. It took three months of Gastrogard and Sucralfate to clear them up. It still did not change the behaviour.

In the meantime I did a CBC which showed a mild eosinophilia. My husband is an onc/hem so he had some insight in to what this might mean but I wasnt sure what to do other than monitor.

When the behaviors did not resolve and the eosiniphilia continued I had an internist come and ultrasound his abdomen lungs, etc. We found odd small circular spots, a little galaxy of spots, in his liver. A couple of unidentifiable things in his lungs. We sent the US everywhere and no one had seen anything like it.

He was fat, shiny, sound, never had a fever, skin issue, nasal discharge, nothing.

But he was clearly miserable. He had three states…aggression, anxiety, depression. He was always sweet to handle and ride. But he was just a miserable horse. My vets were game but not sure if euth was the right thing, but they trust me and know me so went ahead.

His necropsy showed MEED. Every organ, brain, liver, stomach, intestines, heart! his entire body was riddled with the granular eosinophiliac tumors. He must have been in chronic agony. When I sent the nec results to the internist she just wrote back WOW.

He was 12. He had not one exterior symptom. ONLY behaviour.

If I were you, I would do a CBC, and do the omep/sucralfate, and put him on Succeed.

He is clearly telling you he is miserable. Youre a good mom to try to figure out why.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

@Akogler

You have gotten great advice here.

Gastric ulcers can be in the squamous part of the stomach or the glandular part of both. Glandular ulcers are much harder to treat than squamous.

I had a similar horse. He was not aggressive to me but terribly so to other horses and also terribly herd bound. I treated hi with Gastrogard but it didnt really help. I put him on Succeed and that helped a little. Scoping revealed glandular ulcers. It took three months of Gastrogard and Sucralfate to clear them up. It still did not change the behaviour.

In the meantime I did a CBC which showed a mile eosinophilia. My husband is an onc/hem so he had some insight in to what this might mean but I wasnt sure what to do other than monitor.

When the behaviors did not resolve and the eosiniphila continued I had an internist come and ultrasound his abdomen lungs, etc. We found odd small circular spots, a little galaxy of spots, in his liver. A couple of unidentifiable things in his lungs. We sent the US everywhere and no one had seen anything like it.

He was fat, shiny, sound, never had a fever, skin issue, nasal discharge, nothing.

But he was clearly miserable. He had three states…aggression, anxiety, depression. He was always sweet to handle and ride. But he was just a miserable horse. My vets were game but not sure if euth was the right thing, but they trust me and know me so went ahead.

His necropsy showed MEED. Every organ, brain, liver, stomach, intestines, heart! his entire body was riddled with the granular eosinophilac tumors. He must have been in chronic agony. When I sent the nec results to the internist she just wrote back WOW.

He was 12. He had not one exterior symptom. ONLY behaviour.

[candyappy]

Wal- Mart has their brand ( compare to Nexium) for 14.00 so well worth a look before ordering online. It won’t hurt anything to try it. 3 pills a day to start ( for 3 weeks) Then taper gradually. It is in the Nexium for Ulcers thread.

Have you checked to make sure your saddle fits correctly? Does he do this with the trainer while grooming/ tacking up?

No issues once mounted?

How do you groom and what types of brushes? Are you scrubbing away and pushing hard on him while grooming? Many horses don’t care for it at all.

[Sakey]

I am actually getting a new saddle to fit him. He does the same with my trainer. Usually I just use the softest brush I have for his body, then curry his legs.

He is perfect when mounted.

[SuzieQNutter]

You can get a curry glove. Not the pimple mit. An actual black glove with a curry comb on the palm and fingers.

It is fantastic. You can use it as hard or as light as you want. When doing the legs you can just use one finger in the grooves. Followed by the soft body brush.

[endlessclimb]

My thin skinned TB HATED the type of mitt you describe. She didn’t mind the pimple mitt though, so that’s what we stuck with.

For deep seated mud, the mildest thing I found that worked was to use a mane/tail brush to get it off. Legs, body, the whole shebang. This type: https://www.statelinetack.com/item/curved-mane-and-tail-brush/E015302%20GRN/?srccode=GPSLT&gclid=Cj0KCQiAzZL-BRDnARIsAPCJs72a2LnGrV5zqUDF134xEA_GfunmHyx0k6N-EQepIsjAHe-VKo8yan8aAjkTEALw_wcB

[SuzieQNutter]

@endlessclimb

My thin skinned TB HATED the type of mitt you describe.

That is why I said you can use it as light as they want, just the tip of the finger.

[endlessclimb]

Didn’t matter to her. It was how hard the nubbin itself was, and the fact that they were super pointy compared to a normal curry.

My dog likes them though.

[Red_Barn]

@Akogler

He was 12.

What a sad story!

[Tarlo_Farm]

Sakey, sorry you tested positive and I hope you’re feeling better. Also, I hope your trainer gave your guy a vacation as well. I agree he may have ulcers, or a tick disease. Lyme or Equine Anaplasmosis.

[Justice]

Try leaving an extra leadrope on him & snapping it every time he offers ANY behavior you find even mildly aggressive. Repeat for two weeks, or have whoever is riding him do it. Regardless of whether he has ulcers or not, this will solve the problem.

Right now, it’s a habit. Babies go through stages. I guarantee he worked harder at the track . I’ve used the GUT supplement & it’s good but if you are worried ask your vet for an omeprazole prescription from Cornerstone Pharmacy in KY. It has to be refrigerated & given every day but it’s only about $150 for a month and then go back to using GUT. We’ve had good luck with Relyne as well.

Cheap way to not worry about it, but I would nip this type of behavior in the bud.

Good luck!

[Equkelly]

@Justice

Try leaving an extra leadrope on him & snapping it every time he offers ANY behavior you find even mildly aggressive. Repeat for two weeks, or have whoever is riding him do it. Regardless of whether he has ulcers or not, this will solve the problem.

Please don’t do that.

[Red_Barn]

@Equkelly

Please don’t do that.

I agree. HORRIBLE idea.

The minute you start punishing a horse for feeling pain you’ve started creating a resentful adversary where you might have had a cooperative partner. Every single thing you want to do with that horse gets harder going forward, and any new management strategy you develop is undermined.

But how are you feeling yourself, OP @Sakey? Bearing up in quarantine?

[Justice]

How is snapping a leadrope an unjust punishment? It absolutely does not hurt the horse, it is a painless way to tell him no. Horses that get into this habit often go from threatening to actual biting. That is harder to stop and horses that do that often end up in bad situations.

Just to make sure we’re using the same language, to me snapping a leadrope means holding it slack and giving a quick pull and saying “no” when the horse pins his ears and makes threatening gestures.

I get that everyone here thinks the horse is in pain, and that’s possible. But a vet has seen the horse. The op is following vet’s advice. Sometimes young horses are naughty, and they learn new tricks quickly. Tacking up in a stall is a change for the horse. He may think it would be nicer to skip the work and eat his hay in peace. Setting boundaries makes the horse feel more secure. A secure horse who has a confident leader is a great partner, IME.

OP, I hope you’re surviving quarantine!

[Equkelly]

@Justice

How is snapping a leadrope an unjust punishment? It absolutely does not hurt the horse, it is a painless way to tell him no. Horses that get into this habit often go from threatening to actual biting. That is harder to stop and horses that do that often end up in bad situations.

Just to make sure we’re using the same language, to me snapping a leadrope means holding it slack and giving a quick pull and saying “no” when the horse pins his ears and makes threatening gestures.

I get that everyone here thinks the horse is in pain, and that’s possible. But a vet has seen the horse. The op is following vet’s advice. Sometimes young horses are naughty, and they learn new tricks quickly. Tacking up in a stall is a change for the horse. He may think it would be nicer to skip the work and eat his hay in peace. Setting boundaries makes the horse feel more secure. A secure horse who has a confident leader is a great partner, IME.

OP, I hope you’re surviving quarantine!

Yuck. I forget that there are people who still use such terrible horsemanship practices. sighs

Horses don’t bite for no reason. They don’t don’t pin their ears and grind their teeth because they’re “disrespectful” or whatever crap you heard from Clinton Anderson or Pat Parelli. They are trying to tell you something.

Snapping the lead, doesn’t make them feel more secure, it makes them feel like they can’t show you pain or discomfort. Also even if this horse was doing this to “get out of work” that should tell you that you need to re-evaluate the work you’re doing with the horse if he truly hates it that much.

[candyappy]

@Equkelly

Horses don’t bite for no reason. They don’t don’t pin their ears and grind their teeth because they’re “disrespectful”

Oh yes they do. Disrespectful and spoiled horses will kick, bite and run over you as the mood strikes. It has nothing to do with pain. Not saying it is the case here but it happens more than you think with incompetent handlers.

Teeth grinding is the only one that I would associate with pain 100% of the time. I also agree that if the horse is in pain that punishment is not the way to go. Finding and eliminating the source of pain is.

[PamnReba]

Yuck. I forget that there are people who still use such terrible horsemanship practices. sighs

Oh please - correcting and even disciplining bad behavior is actually an excellent horsemanship practice. There’s a time and place for it, and some horses just need to be reminded of their manners. You don’t see boss mares putting up with nonsense, neither should boss humans. I’m not talking about abuse, just reprimands. They all need a reminder at some time or another.

[Sakey]

Thank you SO much everyone for the responses!!

I received lots of advice and he is currently 8 out of 10 days of vacation. I have taken a new saddle on trial to get a better fit. If his behavior is still the same after two weeks of a newly fitted saddle I will get him on some ulcer treatment.

thanks so much again!

[Sakey]

It’s definitely boring but i’ve been doing lots of horsemanship research and learning lots of new things so it’s not completely horrible

[Justice]

@Equkelly

Yuck. I forget that there are people who still use such terrible horsemanship practices. sighs

Horses don’t bite for no reason. They don’t don’t pin their ears and grind their teeth because they’re “disrespectful” or whatever crap you heard from Clinton Anderson or Pat Parelli. They are trying to tell you something.

I’m a hunter/jumper rider, so I’m not sure how either of those folks feel about ear pinning. I’m no genius, but when a horse is aggressive, I make sure that he immediately understands that is not acceptable. From where I’m standing dealing with young athletic horses, the horse may be trying to tell me he’d like to bite. You disagree with me and that’s ok… but I only posted to try to give a different point of view to the OP. My methods may be old fashioned, but that’s likely because I’m old. All I can say is, they’ve served me well. Again, best of luck OP!