Oh it definitely is against the rules. But it happens all the time. Very, very common in H/J land
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Question from an eventer, is it that hard to beat the pros in the H/J ring?
In eventing here in Ontario we regularly compete against the pros and Olympians.
If you have shown the level above within 3 years for 3 events successfully then you have to show in the Open for the division below.
So say I event Novice and finish 3 events. If I want to show BN I would have to show open.
I have to show all my young horses in Open against all the pros and Olympians. It’s a badge of honor when you beat them 
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It would definitely be a badge of honor in H/J too, most of the time.
For a good majority of ammy hunter riders, yes, it’s pretty hard to beat a pro rider because pros rarely miss a distance and amateurs often miss at least one, and that’s a big deal in the hunters. There are nuances (and judges can apply nuance if the horse happens to jump beautifully despite a missed distance), but in general pro hunter riders are pro because they don’t miss and they give a smooth ride.
The best Am hunter riders could and would beat a lot of pros because they usually have fancy horses and they ride quite well, but they don’t have to. Just a different world.
Different for jumpers, where style doesn’t matter.
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There are other considerations too. Amateur classes at relatively low levels tend to have more prize money than comparable open classes. And they are much more likely to run on the weekend, a huge convenience for people who work during the week.
Appreciate the insight!
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This is my complaint. I work for a feed company. Sometimes I film promotional/educational clips about horse care and our products. So, does that mean I’m a professional rider/trainer? REALLY? I was just about to apply for reinstatement of my amateur status (because I had a similar problem in my previous role as a university faculty member - I taught “horse handling and care” and was therefore a pro…).
Argh.
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This is it.
I started another thread on this rule before seeing this one - but this is my main issue with the ammy rule and all of the subsequent “plug the hole” rules that follow. They are written in such a broad, general way that it doesn’t really effect the folks who it’s meant to. The people who have 100k followers on social media and get all of their tack and equipment for free - OK, I get it.
But for the local person who has maybe 657 followers and gets free treats from her friend who is starting a homemade treat company in exchange for a few shout outs on social media - now she is a professional? That just makes no sense to me at all.
They should rewrite this rule to root out the issue that’s actually on the table here. Specify how many followers they have, or a total dollar amount in product a year. That alone could effectively close the loop hole without shutting out the folks who are already struggling to make showing work.
I’ve long thought that the ammy rule should be amended in the first place to include a dollar amount of remuneration you’re allowed to take in on a yearly basis before you’re classified as a professional. That would allow so many of us to teach beginner lessons a few days a month to pay off a show - but alas. I’m not holding my breath for that one, but I just hope they don’t take this next step to make a simple product review potentially a red zone.
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I believe that anyone who is a USEF member may go to the website with all the proposed rule changes and post comments about the specific proposals. The most effective time to do that would be now, before they all come up for discussion at the USHJA annual meeting next month.
The rule changes are discussed at the annual meeting at great length, so if you have an opinion on them, it’s a good idea to speak up about them on the USHJA site before they get passed. Posting here on the subject probably won’t have much effect on the USHJA’s decision.
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Just attempted that.
In true backwards USEF technology form, if you click on one of the rule change links, it just takes you to a PDF of the rule that you can’t submit any feedback or comments on - you can only download it. It does however provide a contact email:
In lieu of any way to submit online comments, Emailing comments this address appears to be the best course of action.
If I’m wrong someone has found a workaround or a place to submit comments, please let me know!
Did you sign in on the USHJA page and then click on the word comment?
When I did that, I got to a form to submit a comment on the proposal. I did not actually try to submit a comment, since I was just testing to see if it worked. But it seemed functional.
I don’t think a dollar amount really solves it. What about the celebrity rider? They may need their social media for their professional life. They might make money off of it or receive free products. If they put anything on their showing that they are a horse person, they also violate the rule. They are professional celebrities not professional horse trainers.
It just seems to have nothing really to do with horse showing if your only “professional” activities are on social media and not also out in the barn.
I also like finding reviews on products out there when I’m shopping for some $ horse purchase. I don’t care if a blogger got product to review for free. I do want to know if they are full on sponsored by the brand vs just getting sent some stuff to do a review.
Anyway, I think this has even less to do with being a professional for purposes of horse shows than teaching beginner lessons.
I will also point out that I looked into the trainer certification criteria at one point (I am a professional but currently towards the end of sitting out a year to try to get my ammy card back). You have to be a full time professional for a certain amount of time to apply for trainer certification. Doesn’t matter if you could pass the tests or whatever skill or knowledge you have and be teaching part time. It just means that I (for example) can’t make a living just doing horses—I just like to help when I can—and I have another career. So why then is the part time low level teacher who can’t be USHJA certified still a pro in all cases?
So, does the rule intend to stop under the table sponsorships? Probably. But just because someone is talented at posting Instagram stories doesn’t mean they have some competitive advantage in the ring over other amateurs.
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No, she’s not, unless she is getting–i think the dollar amount is like 250? 300 dollars worth of treats. There is a dollar amount, and it is somewhere around that.
Just an update.
This rule change proposal has come up a couple of times so far in the different discussions at the USHJA annual meeting. It does not seem to be getting much support, based on both the concept of it and the difficulty with enforcement.
A different rule change proposal in the works would specifically allow social media influencers to remain amateurs, and also bump up the annual limit on the value of gifts from $300 to $1,000. That one seems to be gaining a little more support, although it’s still early in the process.
Besides the " bookkeeping rule" there is also an “accounting rule”: Ammy buys horse and receives Bill of Sale allowing him or her to show as Ammy OWNER - it includes small “payments” with a balloon payment due at a later date, which never gets paid because the horse gets returned to the original “Owner” when the deal “falls through”
There was also a brief mention today of the fact that lunging is considered a violation of the amateur rule.
Apparently since the amateur rule applies across all disciplines, it has to include lunging for things like dressage horses, where it is often used for actual training purposes. Not just to give the horse a chance to buck for 10 minutes or whatever.
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The backlash to this rule proposal makes me wonder if USEF should also be rethinking the sponsorship rule. This seems like mostly a clarification of that existing rule, focusing on social media as a specific type of the broader category of product promotions that are already banned.
I don’t personally have strong views about this aspect of the amateur rule either way. But if people really hate the idea of banning marketing for free products, why would they only care about it in some media and not others?
I don’t understand why you guys are sticking to this system still.
Here we have license classes. The first two licenses you get by doing exams. My daughter will do her first this year. It will allow her to jump up to 105cm. The next will allow you to jump up to 115cm. Once you have those exams your license changes with placements in your highest jumping category… I have amateur friends who are amazing riders but aren’t pro. They win our national championship a lot. They can’t ride against me because they’re license is too heigh.
At the moment you have so many people who class as pro riders because they do something simple for money so they have to ride against actual pros while you have people who are rocking it not riding against pros because they are very careful of their amateur status. It’s obviously a broken system so why not phase it out and bring something in that works?
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What happens in the case of showing a green horse that is competing at a lower level as it is not yet ready to compete at the higher levels? Are your friends not allowed to show it?
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Can you explain this more?
If their license is too high does that restrict them to higher divisions or do you have lower divisions for people with that license?
Ok but hilariously a horse can regain its green status 
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