I don’t know how much separate divisions are going to help the timing issue given that they’re often run as open cards, at least when I’ve gone them.
The ability to sign up electronically the night before will mitigate the time and planning issues.
It sounded like it would be a joint effort between USEF and USHJA. Or by USEF with input from the USHJA amateur task force, among others.
Hmmm. I had not thought of that. Obviously in the hunters they do something similar with Classics where one class in the regular division that counts as “the first round” of the Classic. Sure it saves the horses’ legs but it’s also two entry fees for one round which always rubbed me the wrong way.
What I like about the dressage approach is that the class is the class and everyone rides together - I don’t need a separate set of ribbons to see how I placed against the pros (or juniors, who would probably kick my butt every time, LOL.) I surely don’t want to pay 2 separate entry fees for “a chance at another ribbon.” But then in dressage we are really chasing a score - you don’t really compete against another exhibitor.
3 Likes
It did not even dawn on me that, of course, they would totally charge you per set of ribbons and not rounds ridden. But I don’t think it has to be that way (if the show managers weren’t also TPTB).
I admit most of my thoughts stem from the blank slate following a Burn It Down premise, and the resurrected hunter sport would score against the ideal and not the competitor. All rounds would be scored & cited on horse’s USEF record. An average would be tallied per division/show as well as an average for the year that determines which tier you earn awards in. Averages 75 & below (example) compete against each other, with achievable goals for improving your score and “moving up” next season, without having to actually jump any higher. And the affordably average “72-on-their-best-day” horses would get a shot at blue ribbons while riders go for personal bests over a fun horse show weekend.
It will not be difficult to blow holes through this as it is only the most basic of ideas for a different way to do things. One that begins with no presuppositions about what hunters must be (oh my, I seem to have strayed quite far from - whoops). Yes, there are major hurdles, like defining the scores that make up the “hunter ideal”, scribes, and I’m sure much more, but it might actually solve two of the major gripes about hunters: Mystical Scoring + the “Hurry up & wait” game. Two things everyone hates, yet simultaneously clings to. I mean, what IF having your horse ready to peak at a stated Ride Time was, like, part of the game?
4 Likes
Speaking strictly as an observer of the Zoom meetings, I would guess there is approximately a zero percent chance that they are thinking of a blank slate/burn it down/start from scratch approach.
It sounded like they were thinking of an overhaul of what determines who qualifies as an amateur. Not how to change the format for amateur classes.
When I showed dressage you would pay a regular entry fee for the open class and then smaller add on fees if you wanted it to count for the USDF qualifying class for the highest test of the level (similar to a round of hunters counting for the first classic round) and/or juniors or amateurs. I wince won a large first level class and the amateur group and scored two beer steins. Still two very expensive beer steins.
I’ve seen alot on here of this isn’t fair and that isn’t fair. As someone that writes policies as part of my job, its impossible to cover all scenarios in a rule and sometimes yes it isn’t fair to “someone”. My Mother always told me there will be someone skinnier or prettier or smarter or richer or a better rider or have a nicer horse than me. You know what, I am that same person to someone else.
Honestly, I think the existing ammie rule as written is pretty fair.
*written by a working stiff, one horse owner
1 Like
But how would you account for adding in the competitors that would run in another ring and/or on another day if you were to run the class more like dressage format, course set for the “level” and everyone competes there with placings separated out based on status? And I didn’t even include adding the juniors of the same level in my previous post since often juniors and amateurs would run on the same day anyway. But adding in the open cards.
That also makes me think of what about the pros who make a decent portion of their show bill from riding amateur horses in the open division earlier in the week?
As for sponsorships and being compensated for riding or training, the “bookkeeper” was an employee of the farm, riding the farm’s horses or horses belonging to farm clients. How many equipment brand owners are giving horses to people to ride along with free product? Posting on social media is not a riding or training activity. How is getting some product compensation for riding or training horses owned by someone else, including the rider’s own horse?
Probably the best question I saw raised is not so much how do we define an amateur but how should we define a professional in a system without licensing or education or achievement requirements.
2 Likes
Just another update following the final session of the USHJA annual meeting where the Board of Directors voted on all the rule change proposals.
The USHJA proposal was withdrawn before the meeting by the amateur task force which submitted it in the first place, so that one was no longer under consideration. That was the one that said influencers could not be amateurs.
They did not vote in favor of the USEF version, which was the one that would have allowed social influencers to still be amateurs, and bumped up the annual total value for gifts to $1000. That was with the idea that it would be better to wait until there was an overhauled and improved version of the rule change proposal on the table.
2 Likes
I am a blogger, social media influencer, and complete multiple paid campaigns every month. At the beginning of this venture, it was mostly product rather than monetary remuneration. None of these campaigns came through posting banners at competitions, etc.
Completely unrelated I did start the one off horse, teach a few lessons a year, etc. So therefore I dropped my Ammy Status.
I think this USEF rule is very detrimental. Here’s why.
My “training,” “teaching,” etc. what is supposed to seperate me as a professional, has already by the rules made me a “professional.” I’m a pro anyways.
But, my social media “competitors,” meaning social platforms that are killing it much more than I am at this, are your ammy riders. Their platform is built upon maybe being relatable to other ammys, being trendy, having a cool aesthetic, nothing related to their ability as a rider or being a horse trainer. Brands aren’t sending them products or paying for campaigns based on skill level as a rider. They’re paid based on their ability to generate views on social media.(To be frank, if you are a small business owner, an adult rider with 30k instagram followers may do more for you than the professional with no knowledge of social media) .
So, what are you accomplishing my making bloggers, social media influencers, “pros”? Those that are training, teaching, even working students, are already pros by rules. It’s really just forcing the adult ammy who has a marketing platform to go pro. It just hurts them. I don’t see who this helps. If I were an adult ammy, (some of these are up-down riders), rocking it on social media, I would be livid that my income from writing product reviews and taking photos was suddenly requiring me to go professional.
5 Likes
Dinosaur tangent.
It amazes me to think that this could possibly be true. That someone would have more value to a small business for the way they hold their soy latte than for actual horse related knowledge.
I realize that we are devolving into a Kardashian world, and the rest of us are just living in it. But it still boggles my mind.
3 Likes
Thank you. It’s nice to know I’m not alone.
I have no idea what a social media “influencer” is.
1 Like
Neither do I.
Apparently neither does USEF?
I think it’s less evil that your may presume. Do I know what coat conditioner Mr. Professional uses? No. Do I know why he chose a certain saddle other than a brand gave them to him for a discount? But, I do know Ammy Kathy’s horse actually struggles with hives, and she uses this specific shampoo. I relate to Ammy Kathy with a job and going to the barn on the weekends, and sometimes she shares cool breeches that I’d never heard of before.
Some are more relatable and humorous, others are beautiful portraits.
Some people are obviously followed for their aesthetic, but the “influencers” I see, you know your hunter trainer, or SJ Pro who travels to Europe, may not be relatable. But again, the ammy blogger/influencer can write a little post about “what’s in my grooming bag.” And in the bag, there may be a vet cream you’ve never heard of. Or, I may reach out to a large blanket company and say I see you released a new line that’s Anti-Microbial, can I get a few and will write a more in depth post, take some detailed shots, and share with my followers? Maybe the average rider doesn’t have time to research every blanket line, I’ve taken a little work out and can show them what I found.
On my side, I’m a few years out of college so have all of the social media platforms. I had a little blog where I wrote about life experiences, and it spurred my growth on Instagram. For me, I’ll admit it has been spurred a lot by the financial aspect. And, for me I dont’t have the extensive show record. But, what I did have were a lot of people following my journey, for comedic relief or interest. I now can send my little resume to a brand with the # of people that follow me, promise to write a real authentic review, like a commercial and maybe more effective than a banner on a pro’s stall. But, do you know what happens if I post ads every day or lie about a product? My followers go away, and I want them to know they can trust my reviews. (Sorry, It’s a niche side gig I love, and I do see genuine people on the other sides of the screen doing the same thing.)
4 Likes
I don’t think of it as evil. Just unfathomable.
There are certainly some amateurs who are great horseman with tons of valuable knowledge. But for me, that is determined by their history of care and results with their horses. Not by the aesthetic qualities of their Instagram posts.
2 Likes
I get it now.
What you have just described is as old as the hills . It’s advertising using a “trustworthy” celebrity face. From your description social media “influencers” are people who seek out fans and then use that position to sell things to their fans (only things they really believe in of course) and then receive a consideration from the manufacturer of the product.
1 Like
Yes. It’s not a new concept. Just new technology for an old concept.
1 Like
What is new is that the “influencer” of today doesn’t really have to be accomplished at anything, except PR.
2 Likes
I would say most top professionals don’t know what coat conditioners they use either, but their grooms surely do would love to see these companies pair with grooms rather than, what was it? Ammy Amy?
2 Likes
Come now, PR is far from nothing! That’s all PT Barnam was…
