Where did I say it was a common occurrence?
Bolding mine - OP, I find both of these sentence fragments quite concerning, and I suspect @findeight and @eclipse honed in on these as well. A medium pony should not be doing a leave-out from the horse stride. Ever. Either the line is set wrong or pony is going much, much too fast. And what does “expecting a time clock in the SS hunters” mean? Does that mean kiddo was just confused that there wasn’t one, or was that a way of saying kiddo was going fast?
Either way, it does not sound like this child is anywhere near ready to be doing the jumpers. There is a lot more education needed.
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Expecting: as in she’s a worrier, a natural perfectionist, and does incredible amounts of research before she tries new things. When I asked her if she wanted to try showing, she was initially concerned because she had never watched any SS or children’s hunters classes and did not know what to expect. Her only frame of reference two years ago was from me going, “Wow. look at this video of McLain Ward.” She has progressed to the point that she can now dictate the rhythm and stride count to her mount. I thought that getting to the point that she could make a speed demon pony modulate to “hunter” stride count and pacing was an indication that she was becoming a stronger and more thoughtful rider. I guess I was incorrect?
I agree that the leap from SS to the next level is dicey and I’d prefer that she could do another year in that division. Unfortunately, she’s aged out. That’s one weakness I see with the whole hunter juggernaut - it pushes everyone to move up too fast. I sat at state finals and watched child after child fall in pony and children’s hunters. We don’t have to show this (or any) season. Maybe we sit it out.
Why is a child riding at the short stirrup level riding anything that could be considered a speed demon? OP, have you taken a step back and looked at this program as objectively as you can? Are there other options in your area?
The more you share, the more this sounds like a bad situation and one where kiddo could get really hurt by your trainer’s decisions.
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Yes, I am. Thank you for your concern.
Hunters are an American thing, but even so, there is a lot of good that can be learned. It’s a good place to learn the difficulty of putting together a flawless round, of figuring out how to ride the horse under you to get the distances, how to make it look easy. But it’s not for everyone…and it’s not the only path.
That said, I would not be moving to jumpers to avoid course complexity. That’s typically the opposite of what you see. If your course designers can’t set a decent hunter course, how are they doing that in jumpers when there is so much more freedom? Are there just no related distances? That would concern me. It would also concern me If they do jumpers under 2’6" even with optimum time, jumpers over the tiny jumps just isn’t a good idea, IMO.
Lots of decisions for OP and we have a lot of strong opinions based on experience. For me, the height of the animal doesn’t matter, but I would keep my kid in hunters and eq u til they could make a plan and execute smoothly, even if the course is ‘more complex’
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If you trust your trainer and feel like your kid is safe, I wouldn’t worry about moving into the jumpers. Hunters don’t exist anywhere else in the world and all those European kids learn to be pretty fabulous riders starting out in the jumpers. Have you seen the videos of the teeny tiny European kids on teeny tiny ponies jumping not teeny tiny jumps like a bat out of hell on YouTube? Man, those kids can ride and Europe does well on an international scale (better than the US in general), so the preoccupation with staying in the hunters for years and years is not the only ticket to teaching your kid to be a good rider. So long as the trainer is not just teaching “kick, hold on and turn” and from your description it doesn’t sound like she is. You’re a mom, I’m sure you can properly evaluate whether you feel like your kid is in a safe program and whether your trainer is teaching her the necessary skills for whichever division she’s in. I think “will my kid stay safe and continue to learn the appropriate fundamentals” is a more important question than “is she ready to switch from hunters to jumpers”.
Back to your original question about ponies vs horses - my vote would be a horse. My kid also grew an enormous amount between 11 and 12. She got a large pony just after her 11th birthday and by the time she was 12 she still fit (sort of) but was looking a bit ridiculous. She was 5’2 and 90 pounds, not super leggy, but she just looked wrong. She moved onto a big horse (just over 17 hands) and looked much more appropriate. It took her a week or two to adjust to the horse sized stride and the feeling of being appropriately sized versus oversized and after that she was golden. After that short adjustment period she was just as comfortable riding a horse and moved up jump heights very quickly. She said jumping 3 feet on a large pony felt massive whereas 3 feet felt like doing 2 feet on the horse.
Actually, it’s the opposite, IMO, the ( mistaken) attitude that Jumpers are easier because you just go and don’t have to look pretty or get leads or make lines or find eight perfect spots. It entices less accomplished riders to move on before mastering solid basics. Bad training, unsuitable horses/Ponies and bad riding complicated by going too fast.
Far as this State Finals where the kids came off ? That’s bad training, unsuitable mounts and riding too, not the fact it’s a Hunter class. Least they aren’t going fast and typically don’t come off so hard or get deposited into the poles and standards as often.
If I may, like to refer to another thread talking about selecting a Hunter where the OP was advised to develop her eye more by watching. And warned that if all you watch is mediocre horses and riders at mediocre venues, be it shows or your home barn, you get to think mediocre is normal and desireable. Sounds like you could add the Cildrens Hunter State Finals where many came off to the mediocre list and add unsafe. Was that the rated 3’ Childrens or something more local at 2’6” or below?
Please don’t take this personally, it’s very common and nobody on here wants your child to have anything but a safe, pleasant experience or you to waste too much money on mediocre. We learned that with personal mistakes, disappointments and sometimes injury to ourselves and/ or our kids because we really didn’t know any better.
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I completely agree. And anywhere that has five kids falling at a jump…there’s something wrong there. Please be careful and do not rush into jumpers.
I would stick to hunters. The size of the horse doesn’t matter. I grew up riding warmbloods and I’m only 5 '2". What you want is a safe horse or pony. 14 hands would be fine for my height. 13 hands is doable but a little short. The only problem with a bigger horse is if they are too strong - or try to buck or something.
A friend purchased a percheron cross for her 12 yr old. She was over horsed. The horse spooked and took off one day and she couldn’t stop him. But it really depends on the horse. My warmbloods weren’t the type to spook for the hills, and were safe reliable mounts. A good horse can be any size. One neighbor has a huge ex police horse for his 7 yr old - that horse moves in slow motion.
My guess with the course complexity issue is that OP lives somewhere where there typically aren’t related distances in the lower level jumpers, but are in the hunters. This isn’t super uncommon, I guess, though I haven’t lived that many places, and it “seems easier.”
That said, even though I have a lot of days I wish this wasn’t the case, related distances are a thing we all have to learn sometime. Most of us learned it in the hunters and eq, but that doesn’t have to be the case…but if what OP is seeing is lots of kids failing at that concept, that’s not necessarily a feature of bad course design, but of insufficient (or improper) training.
love the bravery, HATE the wild running. Once you see a kid flip their pony, you might not be so impressed.
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[quote="“RugBug,post:32,topic:457077”]
Well, I grew up in a non-US country where every person learned to ride doing show jumping or eventing and never saw a kid “flip their pony”. I have however seen plenty of hunters going zero miles an hour crash through and fall over jumps. Not saying no kid ever flipped their pony in jumpers but the fear mongering of jumpers for kids is so amusing. It’s important to learn the fundamentals of good riding no matter what discipline you choose. And trainers can teach those fundamentals to kids doing jumpers because they do in every other English riding country in the world. You do not have to be a hunter to learn how to ride well or safely. But you do need the right trainer who teaches more than “go fast”.
@hoss I do think it’s a bit of “horses for courses.”
We do see some truly scary riding in the Pony Jumpers on both sides of the pond. I’m sorry, but I do have to say that the videos I see from Britain and Ireland and Germany make me almost die.
Both sides of the pond. Those videos scare the pants of of me.
I would like you to tell me which UL rider. ANY DISCIPLINE, supports,the 3-legged launch? Just watch. They are winning on a 3-legged launch. FAR too often. They do. They win. YAY!
And yes, because, far, far, too often, with break-away cups in competition, the WORST WE SEE is a 3-legged launch that results in four faults.
They’re not flipping (like they used to in my day), because of cups. They are not riding one iota better, those pony kids in Europe, than they did when Whitakers’ ruled the world. They just haven’t falllen hard becuae the tech takes their mistakes away.
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5’ and 5’2" is nowhere near too big to be riding ponies. I’m 5’8" and still enjoy riding my 14.1 pony, but of course I’m way too old to be showing the pony, unfortunately. Your daughter could get some awesome experience as a catch rider, since it is often difficult to find small good riders. I think seeing a 5’ child on a 17 hand horse, that cannot be mounted from the ground, looks entirely inappropriate.
