Providence filly, not able to get Oldenburg GOV papers

[Lord_Helpus]

OP, Just think iof how much angst and loss of $$ would have been saved if honest buyers like yourself had outted JB after all reasonable attempts at resolution had been thwarted.

The language contained in your sales contract will determine if the breeder has legally breached the contract by failing to deliver the filly’s papers. (Why in the world would she send them back to GOV instead of forwarding the on to you??? It makes no sense – so I do not believe that she did. (Do I sound like Judge Judy? :D)

It scares me that we might have a “baby Burnell” warming up to follow in JB’s footsteps, even as her program is disintegrating before her eyes.

Perhaps one of the people who knows who this breeder is should IM or PM or email her with a link to this thread.

OP, I would send one more letter, certified, return receipt requested. Courts do not look seriously at emails and letters sent via the Internet or regular mail. And you need to document all efforts to contact her. In this certified letter I would list every attempt by you or by the GOV to get this situation cleared up. And tell her that, if this matter is not settled within 10 days of receipt, then you will be turning it over to an attorney for resolution. If that should happen, she will be responsible for attorney’s fees and court costs.

Good luck.

PS: The stupidest thing she has done (and the best thing for you) is to cash the check without performing the services for which it was written. This adds larceny (in addition to breach of contract) to the causes of action you can bring against her when your attorney files a Complaint, naming her as Defendant.

This is a dead bang winner for you in court. And, no need to worry about her suing you for defamation. Truth is an absolute defense to that cause of action.

[Eventingjunkie]

If the GOV mistakenly sent the papers to the wrong person, isn’t the GOV the culpable party? It seems to me, they should fix this.

[Home_Again_Farm]

This is a great example of why it is wise to only send German papers by registered mail with a return receipt.

OP, glad to hear that the seller is going to make this right. It is hard to understand why she dragged her feet so much. Not good.

[password]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;6789993]
OP, Just think iof how much angst and loss of $$ would have been saved if honest buyers like yourself had outted JB after all reasonable attempts at resolution had been thwarted.

It scares me that we might have a “baby Burnell” warming up to follow in JB’s footsteps, even as her program is disintegrating before her eyes.

Perhaps one of the people who knows who this breeder is should IM or PM or email her with a link to this thread.

.[/QUOTE]

Please see and add to the “minding your own business” thread in regards to the best way to reel in these future “babies” in case you have any other good hints!

[password]

Link is http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?383589-Minding-your-own-business-or

[magicteetango]

Absolutely do not accept this horse as unregistered, that is not what you paid for. You held up your end, lawyer up if you have to but get those papers. That is ridiculous.

[Horsezee]

OP is this your filly?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiV2oP4FGbk

http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-434773

If so; she is a beauty.

I know all too well how frustrating it is when a seller does not hold up their end of the sale with the horse’s papers.

In my case, the ‘seller’ claimed to have mailed me the papers. The horse was branded so I knew he had OLD/NA papers. Then the ‘seller’ claimed the papers must of been lost in the mail. Months later I heard from a friend, the ‘seller’ claimed to have withheld the papers due to completely ‘fictitous’ reasons. After doing some background work and contacting the breeder; I finally chose to get replacement papers directly from the registry. Found out the ‘seller’ had never even bothered to transfer the horse into their name. A couple of years goes by and the ‘seller’ approaches our trainer at a horse show asking if I wanted the papers on our horse? Really!?!

I truly hope you are able to resolve this soon.

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=Eventingjunkie;6790138]
If the GOV mistakenly sent the papers to the wrong person, isn’t the GOV the culpable party? It seems to me, they should fix this.[/QUOTE]

OP said this:

The breeder did not have the GOV papers in hand, but I called Holly at Oldenburg GOV and gave her the filly’s name and registration # and she assured me that the filly was registered with GOV, but that the papers were still being processed in Germany. I proceeded with the sale and brought the filly home in April. In May, GOV mistakenly mailed the papers to the breeder/seller instead of to me.

So the foal had been inspected before the sale. That means the registry was working from the name/address on the foal inspection form - which was not the buyer’s. Even if she had filed a change of ownership form, from the timing it looks as though that form and the passport may have crossed in the mail (i.e., passport was already being processed, with the original name/address on them, and that is who it was mailed to).

Upshot is that the seller is at fault here, by refusing to help this buyer any further once she had cashed her checks. I am glad the seller has now contacted the buyer and told her she would take care of it. And I hope if she doesn’t follow through - and quickly - the seller will come back on this thread and publicly “out” the seller.

[Lord_Helpus]

Ahhhh, the power of COTH. Congrats to the OP for getting this resolved. And I second the above poster about keeping us informed about the progress of those papers.

No one needs to out the seller. Her first name and phone number are on the Internet under the sales ad. A reverse phone number look up and name search will tell you everything you want to know — What you put on the Internet never goes away…

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=Home Again Farm;6790172]
This is a great example of why it is wise to only send German papers by registered mail with a return receipt.[/QUOTE]

Agree with this! But this seller couldn’t even be bothered to go find a notary public. I doubt she would bother going to the post office to send something off by registered mail.

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;6791175]
Ahhhh, the power of COTH. Congrats to the OP for getting this resolved. And I second the above poster about keeping us informed about the progress of those papers.

No one needs to out the seller. Her first name and phone number are on the Internet under the sales ad. A reverse phone number look up and name search will tell you everything you want to know — What you put on the Internet never goes away…[/QUOTE]

Ah, thank you. I see her name on the youtube link posted above. :winkgrin:

[sixtysomething2]

I would love to know the breeder’s name too, as I have looked at some horses in California and do not have the money to “donate” to him or her. I would have an attorney versed in equine law attack this issue. You have invested enough time in being nice to this person. At least if you file a suit against the breeder, that will become public record, and you won’t be outing him or her on this forum. Granted, there could be circumstances preventing her response, but I can’t think on any, especially in this day when communication is so easy. Go through the legal system! This is another great example of the horse business! arggggg

[feather_river]

she won’t cooperate in getting replacement papers? the woman is a bum. put her name on here–maybe when she gets stuck with those other foals she will step up and do the right thing. stuff happens–things get lost in the mail. but you follow through and get it fixed. quit all the chatter about how wonderful this woman is. because she isn’t.

[feather_river]

no, the GOV just like any other registry, issues the papers based on the inspection info. If the horse is later sold, then the ownership needs to be transferred and the GOV, just like any other registry, can only do that based on signed transfer paperwork from the original owner. this ain’t hard.

[cutenikita]

No need to out the breeder. Its me and if anyone would like to comment, please feel free to do so. To set the record straight, Piper was sold with passport papers in the process to be completed by Holly with the GOV. All fees were properly paid, horse inspected, microchip given, paperwork properly sent in. The glitch was when the wonderful Holly “lost” the Stallion certificate, then wanted me to send another copy but said never mind because she knew she received them, just lost them shortly after. Then the story was she was out of the country, THEN there was a 'hold-up" in Germany as they lost their main office worker and everything was delayed by months, THEN the German office was closed multiple days for some holiday there, THEN she couldn’t reach the German office because of the time difference, THEN after 30 more angry phone calls since I had no papers in hand and had a buyer for Piper, Holly very apologetically assured me that she would see to it herself that the papers were processed and the because of all problems and MONTHS of delay, I insisted the papers be in Shelly’s name and she is to be charged no fees for the transfer - Holly happily agreed as she felt bad. Of course Holly dropped the ball AGAIN and never passed the info on to Germany in time. The passport then arrived to my house, in my name and when I asked Holly how this happened she said Germany must have screwed up and that I now have to return the passport to her in the US and then she will forward it back on to Germany for transfer. Passport was mailed and once again Holly has lost it and claiming she never received it. I have the mailing receipt for both the stallion certificate and sending the passport back. Both buyer and I have been through the run around with GOV over this one single foal. This has been my only GOV foal and the WORST experience ever. I’ve bred many American Warmbloods and Hanoverians with not even a single glitch on registering.

Now the buyer wants me to write a letter and get it notarized. I of course agreed as I’ve never done anything but help her. She will not deny that she bought a wonderful, well handled, socialized foal 100% properly represented filly. There was NEVER a question if this foal was or would have any trouble being registered. I sold her a registered foal - no question about that. Papers were issued - then lost AGAIN by wonderful Holly. So instead of the buyer paying $150 for new papers, I could write the letter. No problem.

I do apologize for not getting back to the buyer. That is and was my fault. I broke my phone and have been working 100 hour weeks so no luck with getting it replaced after making 3 apple genius appointments. I replied the moment I received and email as I check email at work all the time and NOT because of this post. I could care less what people opinions are based on one person’s story. I breed the best I can and handle my horses FAR more then most. Not to mention I sold this WONDERFUL filly for only $5500! I’m not in this for the money, I’m in this to produce great, SAFE warmbloods and I DO. If any of you know me, you’ll know just how true that is. And if any of you know me, you’ll know how hard I have to work with 3 jobs, 18 hour days on an ambulance just to afford my horses and not be a backyard breeder. With that said, I’m sorry that I have not had the chance to run straight down to a notary being that my first day off in 20+ days isn’t until Tuesday. Judge however you will. I have no rich husband to allow me to stay at home and play horsie. Hay is outrageous and somebody has to pay for it. I said I would help and will - when my schedule allows for it.

As far as threatening me with an attorney, go for it. The foal is and always was registered. Papers lost by the GOV I can’t be responsible for. It’s the GOV that needs to fix this. I simply said I would help - not because I have to, because it’s the right thing to do. It’s not like I’m hoarding the papers or have performed some unlawful act. I could simply say it’s your problem but I never did nor would I. If there’s ever been a problem, I see it through and always try to rectify the situation. I’m not perfect, never will be but at the end of the day, I have good horses and have a great reputation for selling them. I’m sorry that this sale was so troublesome to everyone. Piper is one AWESOME foal. Ask the owner!

[Simkie]

Errrrr…you’re working 100 hours a week and can’t possibly find the time to get a notarized letter or reach out to the owner of the filly in any way, but you CAN find the time to deposit her check post haste?

Something isn’t adding up here.

And I do hope this experience has taught you to always send important papers with some sort of proof of delivery.

[cutenikita]

I have the receipts WITH proof of delivery. And no, I don’t go to notaries everyday. Sorry. ATMs are open 24 hours a day, notaries aren’t. Judge however you will. I’ve done nothing buy try and try to get this finalized. Dealing with the GOV is just as aggravating as dealing with voice prompt customer service. Bottom line it just isn’t fast enough. Fair enough. No argument there. I’m not saying I’m not at fault, just simply have not performed any unlawful act nor any refusal to help. I’ve done nothing BUT agree verbally as well as in writing to help. I’ve never once said I wouldn’t. By cashing a check and not getting to the letter within a week does not mean I’m not going to do it. It took over a week to even get a chance to deposit the check, a check I told her not to send as I was happy to cover the cost but she insisted. Of course this was appreciated. Wish the timing was different but it’s not. If I could I would have done this today, but I can’t. Nor tomorrow. When I do have time off on Tuesday it will get done. Bottom line.

On another note, feel free to google my name and see if you can find any negative remarks regarding myself and the business I conduct. I sell over 100 saddles and on average 8+ horses a year. If I’m the next JB, it will be all over the internet.

[Simkie]

I did read your post. You said you have a “mailing receipt” which is not proof of delivery, only proof that it was SENT. If you sent via FedEx or UPS then you should have a signature on delivery. If you sent via USPS you would have to send certified, registered or signature conformation.

If you actually have proof of DELIVERY, then forward all that stuff to the new owner and have her pursue with the GOV. You are making this far harder on yourself than is really required.

[cutenikita]

I agree. I have made this far harder on myself then necessary. I promised the new owner I would see this through when she bought her and that’s exactly what I plan to do. However, I can’t just forward on the receipts. I called Holly at the US office and she said she has to have a notarized letter from me along with the receipt. I also have been in contact with the German office as well to verify this (not very trusting of Holly at this point) and they said to go ahead and send it all in and new papers will be issued to Shelly without a problem. I wanted them to have a heads up on the situation to help prevent any further glitches. I had hoped to just bypass Holly completely but apparently things still have to go through her hands first. Such a pain in the *****

Because of these issues with GOV it actually forced me to sell my Oldenburg mare as I refuse to EVER work with them again. I’ve continued to breed Hanoverians without a single hitch. I’ve belonged to APHA, AQHA, AWS, AWR, AMHA, AHA, AHS, OLD GOV, OLD NA, cutting horse associations, reining affiliations, regional clubs, etc. all without issues. My ONE Oldenburg GOV foal is going on 2 years to get papers on while my Hanoverian foals from this year already had papers issued long ago.

[DownYonder]

OK, having heard the seller’s story, I retract my previous statement and apologize for condemning her.

I am truly sorry for both the buyer AND seller. This absurd situation just once again proves how ridiculously overwhelmed Holly is in trying to manage OHBS/GOV issues here in NA, and is a classic example of why the office in Germany established a new NA office in Canada. Has either party been in contact with Emily in Canada? She is pretty efficient at handling things, and usually far more “available” than Holly (doesn’t travel nearly as much).