Oh, this is an easy one, having lived and worked in Ireland: Ireland is the size of Connecticut. Done.
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lol… Even if the size of CT - are they traveling to uber trainers as uber clients… to ride six figure horses and then coming to the US?
And it’s not random Paddy cleaning up, most Irish riders come from horse families. And it’s not kids from North Dublin heading out into the country to become horsemen. It’s honestly a real pain in the ass to get to even the closest public stable “near” Dublin.
And all of the top top still head to the continent to do the bulk of their training and showing. There aren’t that many FEI shows in Ireland, and it’s way more convenient to be based on the Continent or even England.
I love love that Daniel Coyle is over here doing really well, with great sponsors, since I know him, but first he went to the continent where he made even more connections and rode a lot a lot of horses. That’s how he’s doing what he’s doing.
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Ireland has a population of around four million, so small, but with a long and storied history as horsemen. I’d say per capita, there are probably more horsemen than in the US. It’s very much a part of the culture. Can we recreate that in a country of over 300 million that’s doesn’t have shared history and cultural identity with horses? Probably not.
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Excuse me, but until the engine/motor powered vehicle, horses and mules and oxen were very much a part of the vast majority of human lives, even those in US cities. I read somewhere recently about the tons of horse manure that had to be cleaned off NYC city streets daily. The culture was there and especially visible in movies, Western and other. We let it die in our romance with the motor vehicle.
I was in Ireland, all over Ireland, in 1971, and the number of automobiles in rural areas was to the vanishing point. They are simply fifty years behind the US.
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All may be true - but again, are they very wealthy kids paying six figures for well trained mounts before they come here, getting instruction from those that sell said six figure mounts to clients?
My point is, horse family or not… this is a different model than what is promoted to participate in horses in the US (horse showing and anything if some had their druthers)
I have had relatives visit from IRE. I don’t see the 50 yrs behind concept anymore…maybe slumped from the celtic tiger but gained lots in that time. These were not poor uneducated irish kids… they had finished their degrees and then rented an APT to spend the summer in the US …
Uh, just to reference Dr. Beckett’s post a couple of pages back, because it made me gasp in laughter- if you are out there buying a BN horse for 25k, you are doing it wrong. Almost anything that is sound and can jump can go BN, and almost anything with good training and good riding can win at it. Novice, even Training does not require a 25k horse to be competitive. If you are really good you can pick up a nice OTTB for 10-15% of that and take it up the levels- there are several examples of this in the barn where I keep my horses, including one that is now doing 1*s and hasn’t gotten near his limit. One can go to a recognized event any random weekend and see horses doing well even at the upper levels that weren’t that much.
A confirmed, competitive Prelim and up horse (or something super-talented but young, well bred, and winning), is a horse of a different color (and price), of course. Yes, eventing is changing, prices have gone up for upper level horses- and certainly a future Rolex horse is going to be more expensive, or one competing with a top professional. But that doesn’t even come close to the price tag slapped on a nice WB being sold to hump around the pre-Adults.
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But you understand that we also have people like McLain who do come from horse families. Reed Kessler comes from a horse family (who has money), whatsername…Tori comes from a horse family (without money but with solid backing from a very young age).
I guess I’m confused as to what you are asking because there are very, very, very rich girls and boys from every country I can think of who buy expensive horses and compete at the upper levels of show jumping.
This is not in any way an American phenomenon.
I can in fact tell you I am hard pressed to think of many people out showing these days who started from nothing and didn’t have money and/or horses from someone.
And many of the riders who aren’t personally sitting on a ton of money came out of families who did involve them with ponies and horses early on and financially supported their early training and competitions. And many families keep doing so for those who don’t become wildly successful.
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On Longines ranking, Americans are currently 1-2, 17 in the top 20. Ireland’s lone representative is Bertram Allen at 17(t). The only other country with three in the top 20 is Germany.
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Probably not that anybody is interested in it, but in fact I did grow up in the same area as Ludger Beerbaum. He is my age and we rode our first shows together. He always won, and I usually got 3rd or 4th place… He was always a huge talent, but he really started his career (and he came from a family with no specific money) when Paul Schockemöhle recognized him. At that time Paul Schockemöhle had already a lot of horses and his system at that time was to give some of the horses to young talented riders to develope them. I think it was a win win situation because the riders got nice horses and Paul Schockemöhle got good riders for his horses 
I still remember when we were looking for a new horse we came to a barn and the guy who showed us horses told us that these horses belonged to Paul Schockemöhle and he was riding them for him… Obviously this was very common at that time to get horses from him if you were a good rider…
I think that was a good system to develope good young riders without money…
Maybe the Billionaire riders should consider to save some time and money and give some of their young and unexperienced horses to younger riders… That would maybe help both sides…
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And Paul continues to sponsor a lot of younger top riders, and so does Jan Tops and Nelson Pessoa who most recently seated young young young Steffan Barcha on arguably the best Brazilian horse out there. One of my favs, lovely lovely young man is currently in the top 20 because Athina gave him Doda’s Olympic horse :lol::lol::lol: But people like Jess Springstein and Jess Mendoza and Georgina Bloomberg are so young themselves, it shouldn’t surprise anyone that they aren’t funding other riders because why would they pay for more competition haha But Athina on the other hand, did lend a great horse to Zorzi rather than ride him herself. I think that’s awesome. Like, the Philippaerts aren’t really funding other riders outside the family.
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I only meant in their relations to horses versus motors when I said 50 years behind us. I’ve heard that now almost every Irish family has at least one car, and that certainly wasn’t true in 1971.
Beezie Madden comes from a horse family; so does Charlie Jayne. That is the classic pattern for creating horsemen and women.
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I think you are correct in that most successful in past had family or parent in horse dealing - aka they had to ride different types of horses as well as something well broke. Well broke can also be a deal with lame and/or with issues that you develop an eye for, as well…
However what started this thread was that someone of K Prudent’s caliber spoke out and specifically dragged the Irish Boys into it for a reason. I don’t think she did that because they ever could afford the mounts they are now progressively riding. She was trying to make a point in dragging them into this…
And you are correct. It’s not just a US phenom - didn’t the Saudis’ win on recent mounts in the Olympics or something like that?
I just appreciate that KP views it as a problem and sees holes in that if you don’t have to solve problems, you don’t know what you don’t know.
I dunno. Maybe that just made me feel sane on the most basic level, lol.
I just think it’s the cavalry aspect that made it the better and the more it drifts to the wealthy club entertainment, the more you’ll have people like KP who it seems was old enough to had some of a blend in her instruction be upset because she can see holes… and can see an irony in how much money is spent.
But kind of as also said before, present model has been around a very long time now. Horse show economy seems to strive to produce something where like is surrounded by like, by accident or design… who knows.
Ha. I saw pictures from the early 70s that showed this family with oldsters at the main house which had a peat roof. One of the relatives was into horses. This family now has/had a car dealership. If I’m right, they were hit in 2008-10 and had to switch to making it an auto repair shop. Not sure if that is still the case.
I think she dragged them in because Daniel Coyle is in the US and Canada doing very well and she’d never heard of him. He didn’t come out of nowhere, and he’s not some bog trotter.
http://horsenetwork.com/2016/06/dani…ottom-now-hes/
The funny thing is, this story is at it’s very best misleading. I spent three months living with Daniel Coyle when he was riding for Barry in 2015. And all one has to do is look at his FEI record to see he didn’t have no horses and no owners last year. And he had connections with Swail because he’s been showing in Ireland and the UK and on the continent for years. And the horse world is a small world. And then Swail did recommend him for his job, and that’s very, very different from what? Some rich owners drive by and see Daniel jumping the pie over hedges in Cork? No.
And of course Cian is very successful and now training Tori.
Cian comes from a rich Dublin fox hunting family.
And Bertram Allen and his little tiny wonder of a brother are doing very well.
They come from a large and very horsey family.
Dennis Lynch also.
They didn’t magically emerge from a leprechaun hole, and they sure didn’t come from nothing.
She didn’t pull it out of nowhere, but that doesn’t mean she’s correct.
Remember, Ireland didn’t even qualify a team for the Rio Olympics.
The Longines rankings don’t lie.
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Ahhh okay :lol: I was thinking that that must have been a hell of Pony Club :lol:
Argh… But again. those kids weren’t riding six figure mounts in order to learn. Definitely shrewd with connections etc. but still they have to get noticed by getting the job done well.
And if there’s a pattern maybe it’s probably true for McLain when he started etc and the others listed.
Skyon, who’s riding 6 figure horses to learn on?? I’m sure they’re out there, but I don’t think they’re at the top of any podiums.
Georgina didn’t start on six figure horses, neither jessica nor jessica (medoza, UK) started on six figure horses, athina and reed didn’t start on six figure horses.
Little kids don’t really start out on six figure horses, although once wealthy kids decide they really want to be riders they obviously have a faster pipeline to exponentially better horses than your average kid.
But this has always been true.
I said it before but I’ll say it again, these things people think they know aren’t things.
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