Oh yes they do! Some of those ponies are $250,000.
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Like I said, these girls didn’t. Of course there are expensive ponies, but very rarely is anyone starting on a 250k pony. A friend of mine was one of Georgina’s first instructors, a client is Bruce’s neighbour in NJ, and I also was at the barn with Jessica Springsteen in Holland. My friend is Jessica Mendoza’s groom.
Again, I’m not saying there are kids who didn’t start on 250k ponies, but I can’t name them. I don’t know who started Eve Jobs or Bill Gates’ daughter. Maybe someone else who knows them can weigh in on whether they learned on 250k ponies.
Again, the things people think they know are shockingly not always right.
But, who cares??? If people become great riders that’s awesome, great for horses and great for the sport.
Seriously, if we can’t count people who come from horsey families and we can’t count people who come from money, who exactly does count, internet jockeys??? Because this is starting to feel a lot like a black stallion scenario.
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I’m going to defer to you since your living it and I am not.
That said, the article drew attention because it was KP who brought it up.
That’s a name that may pull people in and I don’t think she’s into black stallion either
They didn’t pop out of a leprechaun hole, you’re right.
it was the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
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:lol::lol::lol::lol:
You aren’t wrong. We are talking about people who come from money and/or horsey families. There’s nothing wrong or unfair about that, but pretending like these guys came out of nowhere and from nothing is silly. And pretending that they’re winning everything all of the time is equally absurd. That said, the Irish team is YOUNG. Like Lynch is the “old man” now, and he’s maybe 40? They have so, so much time to get even better.
BUT
We also have a lot of talented young riders, especially young women, which I think is pretty great. I wish them all the best.
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keep going all.
I’ve had to read parts of this thread and return to it several times, so forgive me if the point I’m going raise has already been raised.
One aspect of the equestrian business model that KP really seems to overlook in her stance is the marketing side of the sport. We NEED sponsors to maintain the big classes, the top horses and the top riders.
Sponsors want spectators for those classes. That’s what they pay for. Guess who comes out to watch the GP at most horse shows? Competitors from the lower levels who are already at the show grounds.
Sponsors want as many eyeballs as possible on their signage in and around around the rings. That’s what they pay for. Guess who provides the reach and frequency of those eyeballs? Competitors from the lower levels who compete in those rings, then come out to watch the bigger classes and see the signs again.
Sponsors want you to buy their products, and many have the opportunity to peddle their wares right there on the show grounds. Is KP buying enough on her own to sustain that presence? Nope. It’s the competitor from the lower levels who hits the shopping areas with gusto, week in and week out.
If these competitors are relegated to other, smaller shows, there is NO AUDIENCE FOR SPONSORS. And no audience means no sponsors, and no sponsors mean no big classes. No big classes means no sport.
I believe that way, way back in the day, Ron Southern used his own very deep pockets to build the Spruce Meadows audience by busing in people from old folks homes, schools and community centres. Later he created his own television production company to bring in the wider national and international audiences. Thus he was able to provide a good ROI to his early sponsors (many of them his personal business associates), and the facility has grown its brand to be able to sustain its audience.
It’s a business, folks. And our sport just isn’t mainstream enough to entire Joe Q Public to spend his hard earned cash on tickets to watch rich kids jump horses. Joe Q Public might not even own a car to get him to the show venue that’s an hour’s drive outside the city with no public transit.
Like it or not, our sport cannot survive without sponsors, and the sponsors will not support the sport without a large enough audience. Amateurs, kids and their entourages ARE the target audience and won’t be leaving the big A shows any time soon.
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Precisely. When KP (or any top rider) endorses a saddle manufacturer and they make they make a saddle with KP’s name on it, who does KP think is spending money buying it? It isn’t her competitors, they are likely endorsing their own saddle brands. Its the lower level riders, amateurs and kids that want the saddle that KP rides because it might make them a better rider like KP. That holds true for all the other’s equine related products that top riders endorse. Don’t spite the hand that feeds the industry, without it, the industry might not be what it is.
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With respect, Jessica Springsteen’s rides as a teenager certainly included some six figure horses. Not all of them, maybe, but several had been brought up/trained through Frank Madden with another junior before being passed to Jessica.
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Even before becoming a teen. She had Newsworthy. I loved that pony. I am guessing he was not cheap 
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Let’s talk about this.
What did the horse show industry do to kill off horse showing as a spectator sport in the US?. Back in the day (the great heyday), you could go to even a small, local, unrated, unimportant horse show (of which there were plenty even in the boondocks), and the stands were packed, in large part because there wasn’t much else to do on a Saturday night in Podunkville. The shows that I remember were all cross breed, cross discipline shows with saddlebreds, Tennessee Walkers, Roadsters, hunters, jumpers, equitation (saddle seat and hunt seat), English pleasure (kind of a catchall class populated by local riders mostly), and there was an actual circuit.
Now the only spectators, even at big shows are the competitiors and their families.
Go to a big show in Europe like (to name the biggest) Aachen, which is going on now, and the stands are packed. There is just as much or more to do with spare time in Europe as there is in the US; why are normal Americans so totally uninterested in horse sport? Has anyone done any research on this?
If Ron Southern could do what he did with Spruce Meadows, why don’t more US mega show managers do something similar here?
Is it because American show managers are more interested in immediate profit than the long term EXISTENCE of the sport here?
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Oh of course they did!
But that’s not what I was responding to hahaha I’m responding to this idea that all these rich kids went to the monopoly man’s house at five years old and were seated on solid gold ponies.
So, again, I guess I don’t grasp the issue here.
It’s really funny because I was at a show in Belgium last spring with Frank Madden and a number of American clients, many young girls–late teens maybe early twenties–who had come to Europe with their horses to show. And some of them…they were not good. They had flown these very expensive horses across the world to show in the 1.10, badly. I promise you a hundred million times, that even with access to the best of the best trainers and horses and equipment and support staff, not every one becomes a good rider, because you cannot buy that.
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Then we agree. I just don’t want to promote a narrative that someone like JS DIDN’T have all the advantages, because she did. But of course you can’t buy a good seat, you can’t buy the feel.
I’ve probably lost the narrative of this thread as it’s gone all over the place.
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- Animal rights activists are destroying show jumping because now you can’t spur your horse bloody in public
which is all caused by
- terrified worthless amateurs buying top horses and then…something
or
- terrified worthless amateurs stealing the air of the elite by jumping 2’6 at rated shows
Our only salvation is to follow
- The rich Irish horsey set, who are doing it right
Because H-O-T-T accents.
I’m gonna say it again, it’s like when your crazy aunt gets a little tipsy on Christmas and really lets it all hang out
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She obviously is an institution when it comes to American Show Jumping an amazing rider and trainer - but I am not sure where she is going with any of it?
- She rants about the lower heights- ok- so should shows stop offering them? How would shows continue to offer the Grand Prixs or continue to be sustainable without those large divisions paying the bills so-to-speak?
2)She laments the old days when you went from large ponies junior hunters and junior jumpers - yet she had her own son come up along the ranks in children’s jumpers and low junior jumpers? Isn’t that a bit hypocritical? And to coach students who show at that level as well? - Things have changed so much- our economy-- the world- the costs of things etc have all shifted how people live and what people must do to deal with the cost of living and the accessibility(expense) of riding
- Trainers have promoted and created this system- now it is everyone elses fault?
- Are the talentless amateurs supposed to quit showing and just write checks to the USET?
I completely believe in her ideals of being a good horseman- but she and George Morris have gone after the amateur divisions and riders before and I am not sure for what end?
and the most strange and hypocritical thing about this is the trainers all liking posts on facebook, etc supporting her- ummm more than half your barn are “talentless amateurs”- how does that even make sense?
There are a lot of great, honest, trainers at the “local” level- and a lot of wonderful local shows that could always benefit from any influx-maybe all of the people considered talentless and who are just atms should consider new avenues if their current barns and trainers see them as such?
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The most accurate and on-point summary of KP’s podcast to date. I’m beginning to think it’d be more entertaining as a drinking game. GO.
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It’s so good to hear you, Moesha! This part of your post resonates with me because I honestly do think that this is what some of the old guard really is lamenting. Back in the day rich patrons would buy and donate horses to the elite riders while continuing to pay the bills so that the riders could gallivant around to fancy horse shows in the US and Europe like rock stars. The Amateur Owners, Pony and Junior Hunters were where the patrons and their children rode and the Grands Prix riders would pay their dues by schooling them.
What I am hearing is resentment that the “talentless amateurs” don’t want to buy horses and hand them off any more–they want to ride them! What I would like to hear is how fielding international teams benefits the grass roots horse industry in the US in this day and age?
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I think Katie is quite harsh and out of touch with the regular rider way down below her but, with respect, it is McLain’s response which is a little hypocritical. I think it was in his video interview a few years back on Noelle Flloyd’s website where he described American riders as “entitled” and not hungry enough (like the Irish, he said) to really successfully compete on the world stage. At the time, he singled out either Lilli Keenan or Katie Dinan as the only American show jumper"hungry" enough to be a real competitor.The fact remains he is coaching riders with horse talent that is unparalleled, Cristalline being the first to come to mind (and Adrienne still not getting consistent clear rounds with her). At the end of the day, however, riders like Adrienne Sternlicht have had the good grace to acknowledge how lucky they are to have their mounts…so many of the other entitled (but capable) young show jumpers with mounts like Codarco, Casall, and Dougie Douglas have also done the same. Finally, it is just as hard to ride a Codarco or a Cristalline as it is to ride a less expensive horse and arguably the former comes with a lot more pressure!
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[QUOTE=Moesha;n9817048]
and the most strange and hypocritical thing about this is the trainers all liking posts on facebook, etc supporting her- ummm more than half your barn are “talentless amateurs”- how does that even make sense?
QUOTE]
This! I was so confused when I first saw it because half a dozen A circuit trainers had shared it on facebook already. One of them really stood out to me. I have total respect for her as a rider and trainer, she’s easily one of the best rider/trainers in Canada, and wins a lot in the US as well. Her students and horses succeed in every ring. However, I used to groom for her before I did my post-grad and I know for a fact that all of her clients either own or lease $$$ made horses. She never let anyone on her personal horses except for her daughters. She has a barn full of talentless amateurs, and juniors with beautiful equitation. Now saying that her oldest daughter is one of the best catch riders I’ve ever seen. She’s not scared of anything and will get a spooky young horse around the baby greens, and then step into the U25 grand prix an hour later. That girl is a horsewoman and will likely end up on the Canadian Team at some point.
I’ve never been able to figure out the disconnect between the clientele at that barn and the daughters, other then the simple fact that not everyone wants to go to the Olympics.
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I don’t know who you’re talking about, but I am guessing that the daughter is both TALENTED and had the opportunity to LEARN by having the time/accessibility to ride all different types of horses-- including ones that were not made/easy.
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