Another reason people attend “A” shows at the lower level, is because it gives their horse a show record that can be looked up & verified. Show Horses are expensive, and to keep their value, they need to prove they can be consistent in the ring. Spending money at a local show is fine, but often their is no way to verify a show record.
Maybe if there was a way to look up records at the local/ grass roots levels, local shows would get very busy again.
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I’m so tired of the elites of the sport crapping all over the lower level riders. Didn’t some eventing BNR come up with some sort of horrible nickname for that group? It’s a ridiculous attitude, since (as has been mentioned) these are the people that are making your GP/4*** prize monies possible.
The costs of horses are prohibitive, period, but it gets progressively worse as you go up the levels. As one of those 26-40 AAs who’s never stopped riding but with limited funds due to graduate school, I’ve also never even made it to the Adult jumper ring. Lesson horses don’t go above 2’6", for good reason. I’ve been luckily enough to find some lease horses that I brought up myself to the Lows. But once you start talking that magical 3’6" number, even the cost of leases becomes cost prohibitive. My husband is trying to be super supportive of my plan to ride something that knows what it’s doing for a while, so that I can go back to bringing up a project. But when you start talking about dropping five figures to have something for a year, even he gets twitchy.
But then you have the problem of bringing along your project, which is where do you show it? Those local/C/B shows that are so few and far between, or that stop after 2’6" or so because nothing bigger fills? Or are entirely hunters so your trainer has to figure out when she can take her jumpers out and has to dedicate weekends just for them? So why are people surprised when trainers take advantage of shows that offer everything their clients could need? And then we wonder why American 5/6/7 year olds are so insanely expensive once they have a show record, when it’s entirely done at the AA level.
I don’t have any answers. I’m just really fed up with loving the sport so much, and having my dreams disparaged when it’s a stretch to afford even achieving that minimum level. It seems with KP and having money, you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
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Pony Club will need to be overhauled if you expect it to become the pipeline for upper level riders (outside of eventing). When poking toothpicks in each stitch hole becomes the baseline for clean tack, something is amiss. There are too many well-meaning, but non-horsey suburban parents running the local chapters and not enough horsemen.
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I say to those whose comments are, “I have enough money I deserve to go to A shows!” Or, “I deserve to go to A shows because I work hard and I want to go.”
i assume then that any any rich or hard working athlete who can afford it should get to play in the NFL, NHL, MLB, etc.?
As am an amateur who crushed themself to go FEI and top national levels, thanks for insulting MY hard work and sacrifices. I find the whiny nature of some absolutely annoying.
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I thought there was a “bow down” emoji and now I don’t see it, but YES. So much YES.
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I disagree , I grew up on Long Island , and the riding scene was a mixed bag , talent rose to the top from talent, not just from money. Lots of Kids came from no money, We had riding schools and Hack stables back then . It was affordable to many average working families. Our horses came off the track from Belmont and Aqueduct for $200.00 , sometimes less. We made(trained) our own horses , showed jumpers on Sundays and won enough money to pay for the day including gas to get there. It was a sport. I think as someone mentioned before , Liability has a lot to do with loss of opportunity , not many people want to take a chance on giving a kid an opportunity to ride when a bite or kick can land them in a civil court . I was lucky, I was a low middle class kid who was given a chance to ride some pretty nice horses and learn from the ground up . I was put on OTTB’s from the age of 9 , not because I could ride but because I was willing to work my butt off for those rides . I have in turn given several kids the opportunity to learn to ride and train in the past , I hesitate now and fear those days are over . Katie is right those days are over , for many who show now, there horses are clothes hangers to show off what ever $700.00 fill in the brand name hunt coat they just bought , or to sit at the in-gate next to ( name the celebrity ) … Who ever said why isn’t OK for a rider to just stay in the low level unrated divisions , it is , except those low level classes now make up 80 percent of the big horse shows…You can’t fill young jumper classes any more but a 120 meter training level class has 100 entries , most of which will never move out of that division because why should they . and that’s where the “sport” ends and the activity begins .
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Wow…are you forgetting the fact that in the NFL NHL, etc, they are professionals? Hello! You say yourself that you are not a professional, so by those standards, you shouldn’t be going to those shows.
So you really think that only people who are up to your standards should be able to go to A/AA shows? Again, wow, just wow
Trainers who deal with clients who think they’re so much more special then the rest of the clients find their kind of whining annoying
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This is an enormous problem. I moved up to the 3’ two years ago, doing the Adults and some TB hunters, at two local B/C series. The 3’/rated divisions barely filled, and both series stopped running after that year. While I love my horse, she is not fancy enough to be competitive at the A’s in the Adult Ammy divisions. It’s rare that there are 3’ divisions, or that they fill, at any but a very few local schooling shows, and usually that’s a Junior medal. So where does that leave us? There aren’t a lot of choices.
Wanting to stay at a lower level doesn’t mean we don’t want to ride and train well, or be competitive. I want to ride well, show well, and know what I’m doing. But I recognize my limitations as someone of mediocre talent and a more mediocre budget.
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If I have the money then I should be allowed to compete in A shows. Yep. That’s how it works. It is not analogous to just anyone joining the NFL. Those are professionals. If I want to go to A shows and get paid, that’s a different story. But they aren’t the same.
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I think I just lost all respect for her. This is is just mean, and short sighted in a business sense, I would think twice if she was my trainer- no matter how “accomplished”- yikes! Sure, in theory I might agree with some of her points, but this is what people want and are willing to pay money to do. I almost think it’s a bit of jealousy? this is such a weird article, who thought it was good to publish this crap?
QUOTE
Unfortunately, because of money, the fearful, talentless amateur can rise to a certain level. And that’s sort of what the sport has become—how far can the amateur go by buying the greatest horse in the world. It’s not where can a good riding kid go on any horse that comes down the pike. It’s just a totally different sport now.
And many coaches have become coaches who just bring along amateur riders and make it easy for them. “Oh baby, here’s a bottle of water. Are you too hot? Are you too cold? Let’s get a fan. Let’s get someone else to ride your horse because it’s too difficult.” It’s just become a sport for rich, talentless people. And I don’t coach like that. I’m a mean teacher.
I make those kids work hard. If they sass me, I take those stirrups off. I still teach like I grew up, where I want the riders to be tough and to appreciate the horse and to learn how to ride every problem. In today’s world, the trainers take away the problems. They don’t want the riders to have a problem. Every horse has to go out of the barn with earplugs in, so that they don’t hear or look or spook at anything.
The sport makes me sick nowadays. And in America, what’s very sad is that we’re not producing a ton of great riders. We have all the Irish boys coming over here and riding all the horses and getting all the owners. Because we’re just producing a bunch of weak amateurs.
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I genuinely do not understand why my going to a show and doing the adult jumpers negatively impacts or is a slight towards the hard work you have done to achieve your goals at FEI. I do not at all understand how they are even related.
How am I being whiny again? I’m saying many amateurs who chose to work desk jobs so they could ride a few times a week to afford a suitable horse to jump safely around a 3’6 course…which by the way, helps subsidize the FEI classes…and your prize money. And that these are the classes that I will spectate at and CHEER YOU ON AT when you do well. What makes spectating even more fun is when you get to do it wearing your whites and laughing with your barn-mates about your own ride that day. It’s a great experience for everyone and my being there doesn’t take anything away from you.
Nowhere did I say I was deserving of riding in the equivalent of the NFL.
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Katie was someone I idolized when I was younger. We are from the same vintage. This podcast made me sad. I remember her as very willing to take rich people’s money when it suited her purpose. Doesn’t she have a son who rides? Why isn’t he kicking the Irish Boy’s butts following her " Only True Way" to participate in the sport of horse showing? While I do agree on some of her points - we need to be horseman not just riders- why doesn’t she volunteer her time teaching some of the “less fortunate” members of the horse world who want to ride instead of complaining and criticizing others? Why don’t the Prudents give a ride to a “scholarship student” on a Million Dollar Grand Prix horse out of their love for Team USA? And let’s face it, the world has changed since Katie and I grew up. There is less land, less opportunities for kids to ride horses bareback down to the lake or whatever, and many people are just doing the best they can to spend quality time doing something they love. I don’t see any relationship between allowing me and other “talentless amateurs” show their beloved horses in 2.6" classes with the country’s inability to field quality Olympic teams in the future. What kind of world does Katie want to see? One where the only people at horse shows are those with Olympic goals or the ability to jump 3.6"? That is the shortest fastest route to the total demise of this sport on the world’s stage. I, for one, work very hard to be able to have a horse and go to horse shows and jump a height that is safe and appropriate for me. I also enjoy watching/cheering elite riders in the GP, and support the USET financially whenever I can. I don’t find amateurs competing at horse shows and supporting the USET mutually exclusive. I challenge Katie to walk among the common folks ringside at the Sapphire Grand Prix at Devon next year. Its those “talentless amateurs” and others like them that are keeping this sport alive at a time when non-horsey folk view us as at best, elitist and at worst, animal abusers. Without us, Katie and her cohorts would be watching reruns of when horse sports USED to be in the Olympics and, perhaps, driving for Uber.
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People don’t but something in there where it is not needed! She does not mean the happy amateur not aming for the Team.
She means the kids with nothing to do beside riding. The ones doing the big classes but are not able to flat their horses alone, the ones not being able to be left in charge of their own horses without at least getting a panic attac.
How many of the money kids could develop a four year old? If you can jump around 1.40m you should be educated enough to teach a young one with some lessons. How many would survive without a groom.
When she talks about the irish boys getting the jobs. It is because they can do all that.
It is not about everyone who is happy in their lane, it is about the girls giving interviews saying they want to do the olympics. The ones that buy horses that can help out at 1.45m, the ones that have a type of horse they need, the ones not being able to compromise and learn to ride a diffrent horse and learn how to teach the horses like beezie can.
So probably she was not talking about 99% on here
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It is extremely difficult to be an adult rider in a trainer model, because you don’t have a parent squawking in the trainers ear 24/7 you get ignored in favor of the people who are always on them about something.
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@dia916 her son Adam competes in GPs and is one of the worst riders I’ve seen (although he has improved in the last year). He is very aggressive and beats up horses when HE misses, which he does A LOT. Very 1980’s mentality.
The entire Prudent family made quite a bit of money off the Kessler family. Talk about biting the hand…
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If one looks at say, track and field as a sport.
True, one has age divisions, class divisions, etc.
But: the kids at summer camp meets are not ‘competitive’ at the level of the national Olympic trials. And it would be confusing and incredibly time consuming if they ALL competed at the same meets… would probably take months to run all the races.
Restricting venues by mileage and being all-inclusive from low to high levels AND giving ‘big’ prizes or cash to winners at all levels; and letting them wear uniforms that used to only be earned does somewhat ‘cheapen’ a top level world beater win.
It would be confusing…
And this is what equestrian sport has come to.
If one has the perspective that there ought to be a place where one competes against the best of the best top sport… I can see where combining that venue with the best-bought, best-paid lower level best would occasionally get on peoples’ last nerve.
They really ARE TWO DIFFERENT SPORTS. At times, not even related, other than using the horse.
I would bet that top sport jumpers would have more in common with top level cutting competitors, than with lower level jumpers or Hunters.
And then there is the Team selection committee. They ought to only be allowed to select alternates; and from the ‘borderline pool of competitors’ that look to be up-and-coming.
The Team itself should come from recent top of sport performance. Merit Only.
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The photo linked to the podcast is a shot of Katie and Reed, I believe.
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This bears repeating…
While she does take an unnecessary swipe at puddle jumpers, her main points are about the coddled, extremely monied types who fly into Wellington for the weekend. The entire culture of that IS sickening. I could not agree more. Just watch any of the Noelle Floyd videos and count the private jets, count the riders going through their “ring bags” like they’ve never seen them before - because they haven’t, a groom packed it.
Trainers encourage this set because why not? They have money to burn.
I’m not sure I buy her logic that the “coddled amateur” is the reason we won’t have a strong international team. But I do agree that there is something particularly gross about the culture of the very rich H/J land.
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Tori’s mom was a barn manager and her father is a farrier. Believe me, she did not come from money. Tori’s talent was obvious when she was riding a small pony named Balou. While I am not a fan of Betsee Parker, that’s where the $ came from.
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In Germany, there is a Basic Starter level at just under 2 feet. No riding license, which requires the passage of practical and theoretical exams, is needed. But after that the FN license is mandatory. In the FN recognized classes in jumping, the lowest level, the E level, is just over 33", which is 2’9". This is characterized as “Beginner”, and there are four more levels after that. Novice (or A level) has two sublevels: one at one meter (39 1/3 inches) and the other at 1.10, which is 3’9".
http://www.euroequestrian.eu/files/2/11/Horse_Sports_and_Breeding_Juli_2014.pdf
This link is to an English version of an FN publication on horse sport in Germany. It’s quite interesting and worth reading, just for comparison to the USEF.
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