[QUOTE=Equilibrium;5887907]
Yup, knew I used to get on him! He was a former inmate of Nick Zito . He was a doll by the way!
Terri[/QUOTE]
Are you kidding me?? That’s amazing! Do you have any info on him or old race photos? I would love to find a race pic of him to give her for Christmas. She turned 25 today! Here are some pics of him this summer. Please PM me with any thing you can think of!
I always heard to avoid because he had terrible hooves.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;5887637]
The only reason I can think of to possibly avoid ND is he was small and sort of QH like in build. By this point though those factors have been so diluted by all the generations that I would think they would not be relevant anymore. And no, he was definitely not a short distance runner by anyone’s standards not that it would matter to most sport horse people if that were the case.[/QUOTE]
Agree…except that he can be quite prepotent for that build if it is not too far back or linebred.
How could anyone doubt Northern Dancer’s influence on stamina?
St Leger 14f winners
1988 Minister Son 3s ND
1989 Michelozzo 2s ND (grandson)
1994 Moonax 3s ND
1995 Classic Cliche 3s ND
1996 Shantou 3d ND
1997 Silver Patriarch 3s ND
1998 Nedawi 2d ND (grandson)
1999 Mutafaweq 4d ND
2000 Millenary 4d ND
2001 Milan 2x5 ND (grandson)
2002 Bollin Eric 4d ND
2003 Brian Boru 2s ND (grandson)
2004 Rule of Law 4x4 ND
2005 Scorpion 3s ND
2006 Sixties Icon 3x4 ND
2007 Lucarno 4d ND
2008 Conduit 3d ND
2009 Mastery 5x5x5 ND
2010 Arctic Cosmos 4x5 ND
2011 Masked Marvel 3x5 ND
Champion Hurdle 2 miles Winners
1998 Istabraq 2s ND (grandson)
1999 Istabraq 2s ND (grandson)
2000 Istabraq 2s ND (grandson)
2004 Hardy Eustace 4s ND
2005 Hardy Eustace 4s ND
2007 Sublimity 4d ND
2008 Katchit 5x5x5 ND
2009 Punjabi 3x5x5 ND
2010 Binocular 4x5 ND
2011 Hurricane Fly 3s ND
Grand National Winners 4 1/2 miles (with a bunch of big jumps in the way)
2003 Monty’s Pass 4s ND
2005 Hedgehunter 4x5 ND
2008 Comply or Die 3s ND
2009 Mon Mome 4s ND
2010 Don’t Push It 3s ND
2011 Ballabriggs 4d ND
Derby Winners
1970 Nijinsky 1s ND (son)
1977 The Minstrel 1s ND (son)
1982 Golden Fleece 1s ND (son)
1984 Secreto 1s ND (son)
1986 Shahrastani 2s ND (grandson)
1988 Kahyasi 3s ND
1990 Quest for Fame 4s ND
1991 Generous 3s ND
1992 Dr Devious 3d ND
1993 Commander in Chief 3s ND
1994 Erhaab 3s ND
1995 Lammtarra 2x4 ND (grandson)
1999 Oath 2s ND (grandson)
2000 Sinndar 4s ND
2001 Galileo 2s ND (grandson)
2002 High Chaparral 2s ND (grandson)
2003 Kris Kin 4d ND
2004 North Light 3s ND
2005 Motivator 3s ND
2006 Sir Percy 4s ND
2007 Authorized 3x4 ND
2008 New Approach 3s ND
2009 Sea the Stars 4s ND
2010 Workforce 4x3 ND
2011 Pour Moi 3x4 ND
And if there was ever a race that Northern Dancer descendants owned, it is the Irish Derby. Just look at the number of sons and grandson that have won that race. Stamina? Hell yeah, it takes some amount of stamina to go 12f at the Curragh and finish up that big hill. Like a 2 mile race on flat ground.
Irish Derby winners
1970 Nijinsky 1s ND (son)
1977 The Minstrel 1s ND (son)
1982 Assert 2s ND (grandson)
1983 Shareef Dancer 1s ND (son)
1984 El Gran Senor 1s ND (son)
1986 Shahrastani 2s ND (grandson)
1987 Sir Harry Lewis 3d ND
1988 Kahyasi 3s ND
1989 Old Vic 2s ND (grandson)
1990 Salsabil 2s ND (grandson)
1991 Generous 3s ND
1992 St Jovite 3d ND
1993 Commander in Chief 3s ND
1994 Balanchine 2s ND (granddaughter)
1995 Winged Love 3s ND
1996 Zagreb 3s ND
1997 Desert King 3x3 ND
1998 Dream Well 2x4 ND (grandson)
1999 Montjeu 2s ND (grandson)
2000 Sinndar 4s ND
2001 Galileo 2s ND (grandson)
2002 High Chaparral 2s ND (grandson)
2003 Alamshar 4x4 ND
2004 Grey Swallow 3d ND
2005 Hurricane Run 3s ND
2006 Dylan Thomas 3s ND
2007 Soldier of Fortune 3s ND
2008 Frozen Fire 3x3 ND
2009 Fame and Glory 3s ND
2010 Cape Blanco 3s ND
2011 Treasure Beach 3x5 ND
The greatest stayer of modern times would be Yeats… a grandson of Northern Dancer and built in the same mould as his famous daddy and grand pappy. Four time winner of the greatest staying race in the world, the Gold Cup.
Gold Cup (Ascot) 2 1/2 miles
1984 Gildoran 3d ND
1985 Gildoran 3d ND
1987 Paean 3d ND
1988 Sadeem 3d ND
1989 Sadeem 3d ND
1992 Drum Taps 2s ND (grandson)
1993 Drum Taps 2s ND (grandson)
1994 Arcadian Heights 3d ND
1996 Classic Cliche 3s ND
1998 Kayf Tara 2s ND (grandson)
1999 Enzeli 4s ND
2000 Kayf Tara 2s ND (grandson)
2003 Mr Dinos 4sx4s ND
2004 Papineau 4s ND
2005 Westerner 3s ND
2006 Yeats 2s ND (grandson)
2007 Yeats 2s ND (grandson)
2008 Yeats 2s ND (grandson
2009 Yeats 2s ND (grandson)
2010 Rite of Passage 4x4 ND
2011 Fame and Glory 3s ND
Three time winner of the Melbourne Cup and greatest Aussie stayer of recent times, Makybe Diva, is a 4x4 cross to ND.
Could go on and on and on and on, but not sure why one would need to waste any more time on this. Anyone who thinks Northern Dancer’s has a negative effect on stamina has been living in a cave for the last 30 years, and if they came out of the cave, it certainly wasn’t to watch racing.
There was a ND grandson in the racing barn once, he was a doll to handle, resembled ND, good feet, allowance caliber horse. Overall a good experience!
That last line was one of the funniest things I’ve read in a long time. :yes::lol::yes::lol:
I suppose it all has to do with the CC, CT and TT gene possibilities for sprint versus stamina. Northern Dancer had to have been a CT, and whether or not his went classic distance, really short, or really long would depend on what came from the mare–which is how the classic miler is usually described in breeding.
That is truly an impressive list of ND line winners! 114 in all, if I counted correctly…all the way to the 5th generation:cool:
It is really rare to find a modern pedigree without ND, and yet…the above list of ND winners, shows only 20 (again, if I counted correctly) with more than one cross to him.
Moonwitch,
Here’s your boy!
http://s1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb409/tberwanger/?action=view¤t=011-1.jpg
Like I said, not a great pic and that is the only one I have. This was at Saratoga and it was my last summer working for Nick so it would have been 98.
The reason I have not really mentioned much about ND is because there is no point trying to reason with the misinformation. Thanks DRV for posting those horses. I think it’s clear to see, as I mentioned, the versatility in the horse. He is in just about everything because those horses could run. Certain lines I may not be keen on such as Danehill but look at what he did. And that’s just a personal preferance of mine. AKA, means diddly.
Terri
Moonwitch,
Thanks for sharing the pics you have of him. He looks happy and content and still the pretty boy he always was!
Terri
And another thing about “type” . I’ve seen sprint type build horses win distance races. If you ever saw Katchit you wouldn’t think Champion Hurdle. And I’ve been on plenty of tall, leggy, rectangular horses that could sprint quite well. We had a baby come into us for breaking. He pedigree was a mix of everything including NH winners. The mother was sold in foal to a NH horse. She was a tall leggy stout filly who everyone decided would be a bumper horse rather than a flat horse. I kept saying, please just let the horse tell you what she can do. Turns out her best distance was 5f. Could get 6 but nothing over. And there’s one horse over here who is nicknamed the Racing Cob. Name escaping me right now, but I’ve lost count of how many point to points he’s won. Think he’s max of 15.3 and a stout butty thing which is why he has the nickname.
There are exceptions. Go and look at horses like High Chaparral and Montjeu. You aren’t standing there going, yup ND all the way. And they rarely would throw a ND type either from a variety of mares.
Terri
Well I gladly stand corrected. 
I am glad though that his thread provided a good opportunity to highlight his achievements! What a horse!
[QUOTE=Equilibrium;5889064]
And another thing about “type” . I’ve seen sprint type build horses win distance races. If you ever saw Katchit you wouldn’t think Champion Hurdle. And I’ve been on plenty of tall, leggy, rectangular horses that could sprint quite well. We had a baby come into us for breaking. He pedigree was a mix of everything including NH winners. The mother was sold in foal to a NH horse. She was a tall leggy stout filly who everyone decided would be a bumper horse rather than a flat horse. I kept saying, please just let the horse tell you what she can do. Turns out her best distance was 5f. Could get 6 but nothing over. And there’s one horse over here who is nicknamed the Racing Cob. Name escaping me right now, but I’ve lost count of how many point to points he’s won. Think he’s max of 15.3 and a stout butty thing which is why he has the nickname.
There are exceptions. Go and look at horses like High Chaparral and Montjeu. You aren’t standing there going, yup ND all the way. And they rarely would throw a ND type either from a variety of mares.
Terri[/QUOTE]
Some of it probably not only depends on the build a horse has, but how he/she uses it. I know QHs that you’d think would be wonderful sprinters… but they aren’t.
Exactly Smokygirl! Point I was trying to make!
Terri
[QUOTE=vineyridge;5887933]
Sprinters are actually quite decent for sport horses, as long as they have Nasrullah/Mumtaz Mahal type conformation. Milers seem to have created the best/longest lasting sport horse lines. IMO, most of the lines that are really, really good for sport jumping are the speedsters with the Mumtaz Mahal type conformation because they have so many fast twitch muscle cells. It gets a bit dicer for eventers, because stamina is still of important–very few other horses are asked to gallop at 570 meters per minute and jump for 10-11 minutes, which, until two years ago, was 11-13 minutes with 45 jumping efforts.[/QUOTE]
pushing the like button for both of these posts…
and thanks Drumbiggle for that list.
I’ve got quite a few horses with ND in their pedigrees here, but of all of them, the three with him the closest up (all grandsons or great grandsons) are lovely sport types - my stallion is very turfy looking, and my eventing gelding and the layup I have are anything but sprinter type. None got ND’s downhill build, and are nice movers.
I would rather see ND in a pedigree than Mr. P any day - but that’s my own personal preference.
I still have our first homebred TB gelding, a ND grandson
http://www.pedigreequery.com/ad+ablurr
We sold his 2-year-younger full brother as a jumper to a BNT, who re-sold him after getting his championships in Tucson
http://www.pedigreequery.com/somfas+pleasure
My old AddaBoy is a long way from sprinter confo - he moves like an Iberian horse, very classic, uphill, lovely stretchy easy to sit gaits - and blindingly fast when he cares to be. I have photos of his progression from young horse to this summer on his web page
http://www.irishhuntersandjumpers.com/Ad%20Ablurr.html
My friend had her young Andalusian injured just prior to her clinic date - I pulled Ad out of pasture, bathed and braided and showed up with a horse for her to take into the clinic (in-hand work - she really needed a horse with a foundation)
The old man blew them out of the water - clinician LOVED him
IMHO, nothing at all wrong with ND in a pedigree for sport, if it’s supported with other good lines to produce conformation and soundness and THE GOOD MIND we look for.
FRANKEL – 3s x 4d to Northern Dancer!
My mare ( bought last year) which I am fooling around on as her basic training was minimal has been a broodmare previously. Has an insanly enjoyable character ( I always say at the barn that I will make her a circus horse ) Has ND and yes the QH look ( large shoulder not that sturdy behind) people sometime say Lisutanian 16 h but on the mark no taller but bears an uncanny resemblance to her great great grand father.
Her movement is lovely and we are hoping to get her to jump a bit this year.
http://s1059.beta.photobucket.com/user/mscapen/library/?"
and her pedigree and for a QH look alike go check out her father:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/epic+song4
Lovely mare really, not the most athletic but then again neither am I therefore we do well together.
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