Quality Road's major tantrum--no more--- he wins the DONN!

[RedEqHunter]

I was glad they scratched Quality Road. I think any horse that comes through/breaks through the front should be scratched.

Yes, his gate issues were bad to begin with - but just like getting into the scary cave of a trailer, loading into the gate is against their nature. Most horses are schooled in the morning to work out any issues. I know here in NY according to NYRA guidelines any that “misbehave” on race day must school and reschool with the gate crew in the morning until they prove they are well behaved in the gate.

As far as going back to the farm and getting his breakfast at the gate, well, Quality Road is trained by Todd Pletcher. Pletcher trains hundreds of horses. There’s no way this animal will get that kind of individualized attention unless his owners make that decision for him.

[Blacklabs]

any news on how he did yesterday loading in the van?

[KnKShowmom]

[QUOTE=kcmel;4494167]
They are, or at least they were as of a few years ago. There was a mare that Monty Roberts had worked with that used one of these (a turf mare, I think, but I can’t remember her name). And I’ve seen them used a few other times as well.[/QUOTE]

I remember that - it was a European turf horse, I want to say her name began with “L”… Her owners had just about given up on her since she was such a terror in the gate.

I thought it was a great rig, kind of a new zealand weight quarter sheet that stayed in the gate when they broke. They said she liked it because she couldn’t feel the gate on her sides.

[InWhyCee_Redux]

Monty Roberts worked with Lomitas, a German colt, for a month… poor QR needs at least that much time, IMHO.

Yes, feeding a horse out of the gate (or the trailer) can work — but, again, in my experience it can takes weeks or months.

[Alagirl]

@InWhyCee Redux;4496171

Monty Roberts worked with Lomitas, a German colt, for a month… poor QR needs at least that much time, IMHO.

Yes, feeding a horse out of the gate (or the trailer) can work — but, again, in my experience it can takes weeks or months.

LOL, I was thinking the same thing.

Maybe put the binky on him in the gate…

[FatPalomino]

[QUOTE=kcmel;4494167]
They are, or at least they were as of a few years ago. There was a mare that Monty Roberts had worked with that used one of these (a turf mare, I think, but I can’t remember her name). And I’ve seen them used a few other times as well.[/QUOTE]

I saw one of the horses Monty put on his TB and videos as the worst loader ever. Monty got him loaded.

Afterwards, I saw him at a lay up barn with a fracture.

After I met Monty in person, I was not impressed.

[kookicat]

I’ve not read all of the replies yet, but I have watched the video. Why on earth didn’t they just give him a moment to settle instead of fussing at him like that?

[Alagirl]

@FatPalomino;4496621

I saw one of the horses Monty put on his TB and videos as the worst loader ever. Monty got him loaded.

Afterwards, I saw him at a lay up barn with a fracture.

After I met Monty in person, I was not impressed.

LOL, maybe without the hype the meeting would be different. I read the book and found it interesting and a few questions were answered (as in you can’t fix every horse) but not ground breaking. The Lomitas story I remembered vaguely as ‘they brought in that American guy’ to get him to load.

I suppose the atmosphere is so charged, some horses don’t settle down. And even with my very limited experience in terms of gate problems, there is no telling what sets them off.

i heard one owner blame the crisp new paint job (white vs green), my own paniked at one start, leaving his rider hanging in the gate busting out the front, and my Cousin’s super star horse having a romp around the track resulting in a scratch (at that time I observed it with glee and HUGE amounts of Schadenfreude) especially since that horse was a seasoned campaigner, just very large…

(and a site note, I’d prefer a German style blind fold, shaped more like a blinker hood, black felt and no straps and a bit longer…but that’s just me, newb that I am)

The of course, if he jumps, he can go that route, last time I checked (20 years ago) they had no machines to stard chases.

[Kyzteke]

@Barnfairy;4490241

On the other hand, QR just learned that pitching a massive fit gets him out of doing something he doesn’t want to do…

And if he really hates doing it so bad he “pitches a fit” over and over again to get out of it…hmmm…maybe he shouldn’t be made to do it?

Race horses are suppose to race because they WANT to. That’s why hotshots are illegal.

Horses don’t throw this kind of fit because they are “pigheaded” – they throw them because they are frigging terrified of being forced to do what they are being forced to do.

If the trainer can’t step back and retrain this horse to accept the gate and LIKE running, he shouldn’t be a racehorse…or they need to find a different trainer.

[foundationmare]

Kookicat,

I agree that there are situations when the asst. starters exacerbate a bad situation, usually by not being patient and “working with” the horse. My son is an asst. starter, a good one, but even he gets prickly when I express my displeasure with how some of the horses are handled in the gate.

IMHO, the gate experience has to be a pleasant one, or at least not a terrifying one, to have an easy loader. Not all horses are going to be happy about the starting gate and it is up to the asst. starters to groom them in the mornings to accept the myriad wonky issues that can be their undoing. It’s literally a do or die situation. I prefer that the starters are compassionate and patient with horses who have issues and the good ones WILL do that, but, more often than not, I’m viewed like I have two heads!. (Hint: there’s a whole lot of testosterone that permeates the gate crew. Some of them can’t wait to use tongs. You get the picture.)

[blue_amp_blond]

[QUOTE=kookicat;4496652]
I’ve not read all of the replies yet, but I have watched the video. Why on earth didn’t they just give him a moment to settle instead of fussing at him like that?[/QUOTE]

I’m sure a lot of it had to do with the fact that all but one horse other then QR had already been loaded and were already standing in the gate.

I watched it live and I don’t think the video starts as far back as when they started to try to load him. My point is, the others were standing in the gate a lot longer then maybe it seemed.

It was horrible and so ugly to see him so terrified and in such a panic. I wish there could have been another way.

Having said that, I just don’t think there was anything anyone could have done differently. The blindfold was the last ditch effort. Unfortunately, that turned out to be the worst thing they could have done.

Edited to add: I am not faulting the starters at ALL. They did what they thought was the best thing to do. I may have done the same thing in their position. It’s just sad for QR.

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;4496907]
And if he really hates doing it so bad he “pitches a fit” over and over again to get out of it…hmmm…maybe he shouldn’t be made to do it?
.[/QUOTE]

Should he also not be made to get in a trailer, on a plane, in a standing stall, walk through a narrow barn door, in a wash stall, etc…? His next freakout was getting on a plane, which means he’ll now have a long, uncomfortable van ride across the country. He obviously learned if he doesn’t want to do something and fights hard enough, he wont’ have to and he’s done it twice now. That makes him not only unusable as a racehorse but worthless for anything else, too, if it can’t be fixed.

[Kyzteke]

@danceronice;4497054

Should he also not be made to get in a trailer, on a plane, in a standing stall, walk through a narrow barn door, in a wash stall, etc…? His next freakout was getting on a plane, which means he’ll now have a long, uncomfortable van ride across the country. He obviously learned if he doesn’t want to do something and fights hard enough, he wont’ have to and he’s done it twice now. That makes him not only unusable as a racehorse but worthless for anything else, too, if it can’t be fixed.

Well, apparently he DOES go in a washrack, a trailer, a standing stall, etc. so those aren’t a problem. And please note that the problem is getting worse, not better.

Unless there is other info, I believe this is the first time he has refused to load on a plane.

This is obviously a young horse that is being WAY overfaced. And as long as people keep making these experiences bad for him, he will keep reacting this way.

The way you re-train bad loaders (and I’ve re-trained plenty of them) is to make the experience better for them…to make it so the trailer is actually a quiet, peaceful place to be – a “safe” place.

I don’t think you can do that with a starting gate…

But forcing him, manhandling him, terrorizing him, isn’t going to change the behavior. Hasn’t yet, has it?

[Blacklabs]

More about his ride home and training next week.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=4647908

“He was a little hesitant to load. They got a little nervous that if they got him on there he might get upset,” Pletcher said Wednesday. “I think it probably would have worked out. But they decided to take the cautious route.”

Quality Road is scheduled to arrive at Churchill Downs on Saturday after leaving Southern California on Thursday night. After a few days at Churchill, Quality Road will then van to Belmont Park.

training

Bob Duncan, the former starter at the New York Racing Association, will begin doing some gate work with Quality Road next Wednesday at Belmont, Pletcher said. Pletcher also hopes to do some afternoon gate work at Aqueduct with Quality Road.

“We’ve all got a lot of confidence in Bob Duncan and his ability to work with horses that have had difficulty in this way,” said Chris Baker, the farm and racing manager for Ed Evans, owner of Quality Road. “Hopefully, we can take a bad memory and replace it with a good one.”

More

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/53440/quality-road-vanning-back-to-belmont

Pletcher doesn’t know exactly what caused Quality Road to act up before the Classic, but says the horse has never had any problems around the starting gate while schooling in the mornings.
“The horse is not a problematic horse,” he said. “He got upset the other day and things went the wrong way. He hasn’t been a problem in the morning. If he continues to do well, we’ll probably have some sort of afternoon schooling session at Aqueduct before we make any decisions.”

[chism]

[QUOTE=LaBonnieBon;4493290]
Wow, I think this is a bit harsh.

In hunter/jumper land this would mean that if my horse refused a jump or threw me into a jump while in a class, she’d be banned until I could prove she could jump without a problem??!!

I think everyone knows there is a lot of “armchair quarterbacking” going on as people continue to speculate about what really happened and what the horse has really been going through.[/QUOTE]

If your horse refuses a jump, the odds are extremely high that you’ll walk away with nary a scratch. Conversely…the odds are quite high that someone can get seriously injured or killed with a problem loader. They couldn’t be more different.
I got one of my TB’s free because he was such a shit in the gate he was banned. I’d be happy to take QR off the Pletcher’s hands.

[kookicat]

I understand the time thing. Just thinking out loud, really. There seemed to be a moment early in the video where he was going to go, then something upset him. I wonder if the helicopter was upsetting him? (At least, that’s what I think I’m hearing in the background.)

I do think that they maybe escalated the situation a little too sharply, but again, that’s easy to say sitting at home watching the video!

Oh, and I’ve very glad that the other horses next to him stayed so calm! I wonder if the chestnut right gets nervous in the gate after having that happen right next door?

[LauraKY]

Send the poor guy to Monty Roberts!

[LauraKY]

[QUOTE=RedEqHunter;4494192]

As far as going back to the farm and getting his breakfast at the gate, well, Quality Road is trained by Todd Pletcher. Pletcher trains hundreds of horses. There’s no way this animal will get that kind of individualized attention unless his owners make that decision for him.[/QUOTE]

The horses know if it’s schooling in the morning or time to race. The routine is different, the jocks are wearing silks, there are people in the stands. So, if he only freaks in the gate at a race, feeding him in the starting gate will be no help. Pretty hard to recreate race conditions.

[LauraKY]

[QUOTE=FatDinah;4492790]

I do not think the horse has reasoned he can get out of racing, they don’t think like that. For whatever reason, he is afraid of going in the gate for races and obviously this experience will just heighten that.[/QUOTE]

Actually, they do just that, which is why if you’re bucked off you need to get right back on, otherwise they learn that it works. Unfortunately, QR learned that it works! No way around it though, but it will make it harder the next time. Got to wonder what’s upsetting him…if he just doesn’t want to race or if it’s something else. Too bad horses can’t talk.

[AppJumpr08]

[QUOTE=judybigredpony;4493500]
Scared, stupid, smart, afraid of pain and for me…I have had a few who were bonified clausterphobic. They were fine until confined and flat out paniced…[/QUOTE]

This. I was wondering if that was his problem also.