Question about DEBARKING.

[QUOTE=dog&horsemom;8549447]
Having said That - my dogs Never bark - they get alot of controlled exercise - I am a strict owner - and they respect me. I am positive - that if that dog was mine - it would NOT be a chronic barker. [/QUOTE]

That’s a big leap. There are great breeders that never consider debarking until they produce that one dog that barks non-stop. It’s not always a training issue, but a temperament one. You can’t untrain temperament, no matter how strict you are or how much your dogs respect you.

The OP’s parents could go to a conformation dog show and walk thru the sheltie’s crates and talk to the breeders, that are some that do debark an over the top barker.

There you will get the real information, how that works, get to see and hear some of those dogs and then decide if that is a good option, once you know more, directly “from the dog’s mouth”, so to say.

Clearly D&HM has never had a tiny breed of dog. They bark because they can. They do not need a reason.

My first Yorkie’s name was Berkeley. aka: Barkeley.
The current pair of Yorkies are, collectively, known as: The Yappers.

You cannot compare a toy breed to a larger breed.

Telling a tiny dog to not bark is pretty futile. My dogs will stop barking when I tell them to, but barking at perceived threats? It is in their nature. Or barking because they want attention? Perhaps they think they are too small to be noticed unless they vocalize.

OP, I have found that effusively praising the dog, telling him how good he is, and how glad you are that he has chased off the bad men is a very effective way to handle barking. When you do, they will come running over for a pat, feeling very important and validated. If you talk to the in a harsh voice, then you become part of what scares them.

You can limit barking (see above – it really works), but you cannot stop it, and anyone who thinks that more exercise or training is the answer has not had a toy breed dog. You need to understand their brains and appropriately respond to how they are “wired” I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but praise works. Disapproval? Not so much.

PS: My Yorkies are farm dogs and they get plenty of exercise. When they come in, they are tired. But they will still bark at a sound or ??

PS: A debarked dog (or a de-whinnied horse :slight_smile: ) sounds like a very hoarse person trying to speak. Yes, it is a ‘scratchy’ sound, but it is much easier to deal with than constant loud/high pitched barking is.

OP, everyone has opinions. I have never had a dog debarked, small or large (and yes I had a Sheltie but he wasn’t a yapper. He just thought he was as big and as tough as the big dogs.), neither have I had a cat declawed. But as my friend had to have her mixed breed from the pound dog debarked so the neighbor could sleep during the day and as another friend of mine had her cats declawed, I think that if it is necessary to keep a dog (or cat with declawing) then have the dog debarked. A hoarse, lower bark will occur.

I’ve done obedience. I’ve owned many types of dogs and cats and horses. I’ve never had to have any dog debarked or any cat declawed. But if that was the only way to keep one of my animals, I would have it done by a qualified vet.

I don’t understand all the experts on this thread telling OP what to do and what not to do. Have the dog debarked for his good and the good of his owners. A safe lifetime home is what is most important.

Where was it posted that parents would lose their home over this?
If everything has failed why not return the dog?

The dog got caring owners this time, it could happen again, no one can predict the future.

Your parents are over-horsed. Not dogs fault, not parents fault, just the way it is.

I think with smaller animals people hold on longer. Bigger animals make “it’s not working” more obvious, as we can’t use our physical strength to override a behavior .

(If I were looking to try more options I’d try the suggestions already made: tread mill, doggie daycare, dog walker and Ceasar Milan (never thought I’d write that!))

[QUOTE=spook1;8543939]
This is a pomerian that they got from the shelter…hmmmm maybe this is why he was in the shelter. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Chall;8549821]If everything has failed why not return the dog?

The dog got caring owners this time, it could happen again, no one can predict the future.[/QUOTE]

Return it to the shelter and hope that it is adopted by caring people in the future? Instead of debarking? Really - you think it’s better to send it back to a shelter?

[QUOTE=S1969;8549845]
Return it to the shelter and hope that it is adopted by caring people in the future? Instead of debarking? Really - you think it’s better to send it back to a shelter?[/QUOTE]
Yes. I don’t know that it wouldn’t find a better situation , do you know it won’t?

[QUOTE=Chall;8550342]
Yes. I don’t know that it wouldn’t find a better situation , do you know it won’t?[/QUOTE]

I can’t think of anything more cruel than to send a dog BACK to a shelter and hope that someone better comes along. Because the chances that someone WORSE would come along is not only possible, it’s very possible. And, since it would be known that the dog is a chronic barker, it might never get adopted at all, and might ultimately be euthanized by the shelter. What a great end to the story. :no:

I’m amazed anyone would actually recommend this rather than consider debarking a dog. :no:

Hi All,

Some great replies and thank you for the good and …different ones. I really never thought that I would get that it may be better to send him back to the shelter replies. I would think a dog twice turned into a shelter has to have his luck running out.

But a bit of a update. Spoke with a vet and went well armed with a tally of what has been spent and what has been done to work on the issue of barking alone. $2343.79 cents 10 month and 8 days. They are atleast to my understanding they are going to try some suggestions the were recommended and failing that I think then a decision will be made as to debarking or returning to the shelter.

The vet stated that if it came to debarking and having a good home vs return to the shelter…the debarking wins out. There is not real cruelty in it. As like anything we do to our pets there are always risk. It is weighting risk to benefit that should be considered ( along those lines stated not verbatim I wasn’t there).

Thank you for all the replies and suggestions.

Just wanted to say good on you, spook1. I think it’s great that you’re helping your parents out like this. I also think that the lengths they are willing to go to help the dog become a welcomed and appreciated member of the condo (?) community is commendable.

I hope trying some other interventions works! Hopefully the vet was able to make some helpful suggestions.

PS- if they are near a big vet hospital there may be specialized behavioralists. Ryan vet school at Penn has them, for example. I don’t know if they have a big teaching vet school near them but it may be worth a try. The consult at Ryan was inexpensive and very helpful when I took a cat there

[QUOTE=invinoveritas;8549800]
OP, everyone has opinions. I have never had a dog debarked, small or large (and yes I had a Sheltie but he wasn’t a yapper. He just thought he was as big and as tough as the big dogs.), neither have I had a cat declawed. But as my friend had to have her mixed breed from the pound dog debarked so the neighbor could sleep during the day and as another friend of mine had her cats declawed, I think that if it is necessary to keep a dog (or cat with declawing) then have the dog debarked. A hoarse, lower bark will occur.

I’ve done obedience. I’ve owned many types of dogs and cats and horses. I’ve never had to have any dog debarked or any cat declawed. But if that was the only way to keep one of my animals, I would have it done by a qualified vet.

I don’t understand all the experts on this thread telling OP what to do and what not to do. Have the dog debarked for his good and the good of his owners. A safe lifetime home is what is most important.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. I have a dog that is difficult, he spent most of his 10 years living at the shelter, has many strange habits, can be very annoying, and this is the last home for him…no matter what. We need to do what we need to do sometimes to keep our pets with us. I hope all ends up well.

[QUOTE=Bluey;8549769]
The OP’s parents could go to a conformation dog show and walk thru the sheltie’s crates and talk to the breeders, that are some that do debark an over the top barker.

There you will get the real information, how that works, get to see and hear some of those dogs and then decide if that is a good option, once you know more, directly “from the dog’s mouth”, so to say.[/QUOTE]

This is the best advice on this thread. They need to meet some debarked dogs and see if its something they are OK doing.

I’d also look into the behaviorist and medication. If it’s an obsessive behavior that might really help. I agree you can’t train them not to bark but if it’s anxiety based, it might work,

As for another dog: my dog is actually really intolerant of my friends sheltie barking inside the house. She’s ok outside (dog barks non stop) but inside she will become visibly agitated and has growled and lunged at him on several occasions when he just won’t shut up and people are giving increasingly strident commands to stop barking. So it’s annoying to other dogs too.

My Aunt had a debarked Sheltie, he came that way. Relatively common in that particular breed. Fantastic dog, yes he was “hoarse” sounding…but lived a very long and happy life. I think as an adult the surgery is more successful as the vocal cords are mature. A dog with a home where hes loved and cared for is far more humane than returning him and hoping for the “best”. No judgement here OP. Nothing in the world is going to stop many Shelties from barking their fool heads off.

[QUOTE=S1969;8550459]
I can’t think of anything more cruel than to send a dog BACK to a shelter and hope that someone better comes along. Because the chances that someone WORSE would come along is not only possible, it’s very possible. And, since it would be known that the dog is a chronic barker, it might never get adopted at all, and might ultimately be euthanized by the shelter. What a great end to the story. :no:

I’m amazed anyone would actually recommend this rather than consider debarking a dog. :no:[/QUOTE]

Nor can I. I think that rehoming is stressful for dogs. That doesn’t mean it should never be done, but I think that it should be a total last resort.
I’m amazed at some of the replies that suggest daycare, another dog, or even that the dog will be cured in a different environment. I concede that it’s possible and I’m not familiar with the dog, but in my life experience there are dogs that bark out of boredom and dogs that are just barky. To me, it sounds like this dog is getting more stimulation now than most homes have to offer. It also sounds like the barking is all of the time, not just when the dog is alone. To me, this sounds like a little yappy dog. I highly doubt that a different home will change that. If excessive barking were truly only a function of the dog being exercised, trained and respecting the owner, some breeds wouldn’t be known for barking.

I’d be very interested to see the shelters position on this.
Call up a no kill shelter and see if they’ll give you a dog if you state you intend to debark them.

[QUOTE=Chall;8550892]
I’d be very interested to see the shelters position on this.
Call up a no kill shelter and see if they’ll give you a dog if you state you intend to debark them.[/QUOTE]

Nobody gets a dog with the intent to debark it. Sheesh.

This is a big issue with many toy breeds. One of the many reason I have never owned a toy. I do think it is a temperament thing,because even some that are active all day long just bark as a Hobby! :yes::lol:

What is all this talk about Shelties? The dog in question is a POMERANIAN. A tiny little dog with a big attitude. That is why I compared it to my Yorkies.

The smaller the dog the bigger the ego, and these little dogs need to tell you how important they are. Which is why so many people (myself included) love these little dogs.