Seems to me that it would be hard to judge body score one way or another by the photographs, because most of the criteria involve how the horse feels to the touch. 
Wow.
My horse is a great grandson of Secretariat (through Fanfreluche)
I often wondered where he got his enormous neck from…
Now I know!
:winkgrin:
A bronze statue is easier and cheaper to maintain at the horse park for visiters to see…
HOLY CRAP… In my eyes I think he looks good, healthy and round. I like round, but all the discussions about how “Fat” he is, makes me feel that my horses are too fat. I’m going to put them on a diet, because oviously what my eye likes to see it ROUNDNESS—I must put them on a diet. They look just like him (body fatness wise)… YIKES.
A lot of people like horses fat… a lot of show horses are kept too fat… look at the line classes for young sporthorses- many vets will tell you that you should see a faint hint of ribs and that being too heavy is not good for those babies, yet what wins in the ring is the very “round” fat young horse.
Heck, look at Popeye K- to many he’s the ultimate conformation hunter, to me he looks like a tub of lard. For some reason, what humans seem to find aesthetically pleasing in their animals is not necessarily what is healthiest for them, in terms of weight.
The fact is that fat can cover a lot of flaws-- especially in the topline-- which goes a long way toward explaining why so many show horses wear a lot of it. There are many successful conformation horses who are kept in close to ideal (Body Score 5 or 6) condition, however. When Oliver Brown handled my colt on the line, he did not want him fat, and I did not think Masquerade Cove or the others he handled that year (2005) were anywhere near being “tubs of lard” either. Oliver has long been one of our most successful handlers of breed show hunters, so I suspect he knows the standards pretty well. All things being equal, a well-muscled animal will be more attractive than an obese one, even in the show ring. I’ve seen many horses with a BC of 5 or 6 pinning well at Devon and Upperville. Indeed, some 7 and 8’s did well, too, but they tended to have outstanding positive attributes, too (e.g., wonderful movement) which supported the judges’ decisions.
As for estimating a horse’s body condition (i.e. how much body fat s/he is carrying relative to the ideal), I was given a handy little card telling me how to score BC when I took an Equine Nutrition course a few years ago. Horses deposit fat in several different areas of their bodies: e.g., tail head, crest of the neck, between the ribs, etc. Different horses tend to deposit more or less of their weight in different areas, so there is, in actuality, no single place to look which will give an accurate score. Hence, this card tells how to score each of the different areas, and then average the various scores to estimate the BC of the whole horse. I think if you google something like “Body Condition Score-- Horse,” you should be able to find comparable instructions.
Hope this helps.
I also have a decendant of Secretariat out of Gone West he didn’t like the race track very much but he loves the jumper ring now:D I see now where he gets his thick neck and body from. I’ll try to post a link to a pic with my trainer riding him in a show if I can he’s the one going over the red and yellow oxer. That was one of his first shows. http://www.royalhillfarm.com
Fit racehorses usually carry the idea weight - body score of 5. Not many show horses out there at that weight, and if so, people are usually whispering about the skinny horse.Most show horses I have seen, show at a 7 to 8 body score. At the best weight, you will be able to see a hint of the ribs as it moves. Most people like them porked out, and think that is actually a good weight. Heck, I love the look of a 7, but it is just not healthy for an athlete.
I don’t know how many of you guys are familiar with typical feeding regimens of TBs on Kentucky farms, but they usually just load them up on sweetfeed or pelleted grain feed if they want them to gain weight.
I worked at Darby Dan for a short time and the stallions who I would have already considered way too hefty were getting midnight feedings. They also fed the crap out of the stallions at Winfield. Haven’t dealt with stallions too much otherwise.
Got a yearling before the sales with a skinny topline? Add more sweet feed and some body builder. Got a mare dropping off? Add more sweetfeed. After a mare foals, double the sweetfeed! Pretty much that’s all they would do on any farm I’ve worked on. Most of them don’t even seem to do much for the pensioned horses that could use Senior feeds.
How about balancing rations without heading for the starches? 
The lady I do part-time work for on her small TB farm tries to do more balancing with supplements than most places I’ve seen, but she still ups the sweetfeed and wonders why some yearlings develop that bottom heavy/big belly appearance and drop the topline.
Just my observations… take 'em as you will!
1 Like
Well, you all have convienced me and my husband will be thrilled that I have seen the “light”. I took Rice bran out and deducted 3 lbs from each horses feed and waiting to see how that helps.
I can see the back 2 ribs on 2 of the horses…all the others, their ribs are fully covered, but easily felt. But, still look to have “hay bellys”, but not on “hay” they are fed pellets.
I LOVE Secretariat and think he was a gift to the TB lines!
[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;2257127]
Fit racehorses usually carry the idea weight - body score of 5. Not many show horses out there at that weight, and if so, people are usually whispering about the skinny horse.Most show horses I have seen, show at a 7 to 8 body score. At the best weight, you will be able to see a hint of the ribs as it moves. Most people like them porked out, and think that is actually a good weight. Heck, I love the look of a 7, but it is just not healthy for an athlete.[/QUOTE]
I was told by a nutritionist at a Veterinary Conference in 2003 that the main reason most racehorses looked so “tucked up” has less to do with “fitness” than acidosis from being fed too much grain (which is also related to the high prevalence of ulcers among them). He said racehorses as a group are not particularly fit-- especially if you compare them to endurance horses, for example, which I do not recall having that tucked up look (although I have honestly not looked at very many of them-- just the ones owned by the endurance riders in my nutrition class.) It is interesting to me, though, that fit horses working full time in different careers typically look very different from one another, just as human athletes do. Fit basketball players look a whole lot different from fit weightlifters, fit jockeys, etc., so it would come as no surprise to me that what’s ideal for a dressage horse would be very different from what’s ideal for a hunter, racehorse, etc. As I suggested above, too, when taking a BC score, you have to look at a whole lot more than the ribs-- and it’s a good idea, too, to do some poking around to make sure you’re not mistaking muscle for fat.
Interestingly enough in terms of fitness and conditioning, however, I have read studies done at the Tevis Cup which indicate that the horses who perform best in endurance races have body condition scores closer to 6 than 5, with those scoring above 5 or 6 doing much better than those below. Apparently “lean and mean” is not the way to go in endurance-- not too surprising, come to think of it, if one considers that a few fat reserves might come in handy on a 100 mile run. I’ve read studies of fertility in broodmares, too, which indicate that it’s better to breed a mare with a BCS of 7 than 5-- so it may not be a good idea to take “5=ideal” too literally.
I’ve read studies on nutrition in TB racehorses which focused on protein, fat, and various vitamins and minerals, but never seen one on body condition scores, carb or fiber consumption as it relates to health or performance on the track. Of course that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist…
I’d love to know if it’s out there and I’ve missed it.
What seems to be at issue here, though, is not what’s best for racehorses, or even horses being ridden, but rather horses retired to the breeding shed. It seem to me that most of these horses belong in the “idle” category of a modern feeding chart, and will do best on forage, a ration balancer-- and in many cases a grazing muzzle, too. IMO, it’s gotten pretty hard to keep idle horses from getting obese on today’s grasses-- which have been selectively bred not to produce athletes, but to fatten cattle and/or produce the highest possible yield per acre.
With regard to the TB yearling sales, it does seem to me that the fashion in prepping has (thankfully) gotten away from “fatten them up” and more and moved more toward conditioning. I know that my own nutritionist is designing the diets for some of the biggest Kentucky farms represented at the sales (and very proud of “his” babies" radiographs), and I’ve seen a lot of yearlings at Keeneland whose beautifully rounded toplines were made of muscle from conditioning programs, not fat.
What caused Secretariat to Founder
IF Secretariat DID have cushings then there was no hope. My OWN precious mare had cushings and foundered 3 times - last time I had to put her down as it was in BOTH front feet.
ONE year later the pony next door had the same thing but by then they had meds and he got to live!
So what happened to my Princessita Fa Sa Bay A is what happened to Secretariat - if ONLY they could have held on a few more years! 
[QUOTE=marespooscats@mac.com;6439376]
IF Secretariat DID have cushings then there was no hope. My OWN precious mare had cushings and foundered 3 times - last time I had to put her down as it was in BOTH front feet.
ONE year later the pony next door had the same thing but by then they had meds and he got to live!
So what happened to my Princessita Fa Sa Bay A is what happened to Secretariat - if ONLY they could have held on a few more years! :([/QUOTE]
I’m sorry about your mare, but Wow I think your statement is painted with a broad brush:) I have 2 Cushingoid horses and one is almost 30 the other is 26. Their mother had Cushings and she loved to be 30 and died from a tumor on her small intestine. All my Cushings horses are quite thin and I monitor their diets closely and none of them are on meds.
I saw photos of Secretariat before he died and I was shocked at his condition, he was cresty in the neck and screamed of Cushings with fat pockets. He should have been galloped every day and not allowed to get that obese. FWIW I love the way Three Chimneys keeps their horses. . .
My opinion only, but as I’ve stated, I have and am currently managing Cushings horses.
1 Like
I have to wonder why this ancient thread was even dug-up!
[QUOTE=nasalberry;6439656]
I have to wonder why this ancient thread was even dug-up!
[/QUOTE]
And dug up with someone’s very first posting, too, no less.
I know this is an old thread, but this video moved me to tears.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oyQPvoXMvs
Zombie thread!!
[QUOTE=shiningwizard255;6442531]
Zombie thread!![/QUOTE]
Nice necro, dude.
Possibly because a noob would see all the threads coming up as “unread”, and might have just started going from top to bottom in a given forum.
It’s not the first time that’s happened.
[QUOTE=shiningwizard255;6442531]
Zombie thread!![/QUOTE]
:lol::lol::lol:
