[QUOTE=m&m;8231932]
My horse got kicked in the same place. No stallions anywhere, and the BO is someone I would trust with my life. Not typical, but not unique.[/QUOTE]
Yep, I saw it once in a young mare out with other mares. Thought at the time, “probably never see that again”… Vet stitched and she was fine
Sorry to hear about the accident and I agree most likely you are responsible unless the other horse was a known problem. But there is no way your horse was “kicked in the vagina” unless the hoof went inside the mare. The vagina is internal. The vulva is the external lady bits (on horses and people). A very vascularized area and can be easily swollen, but will just as easily have the swelling go down.
[QUOTE=Flash44;8231968]
The trainer or barn owner should have liability insurance. IF you want, you can file a claim against their liability insurance to cover your horse getting injured, since this did not happen out in the field, but while the horses were tied up, and one “got loose.” But that would probably cause bad feelings all around.[/QUOTE]
This type of situation would fall under a Care, Custody & Control policy, not a liability policy, only IF you could prove the trainer was actually negligent and the accident was not due to horses being horses. A CC&C policy does not pay out for random accidents and injuries. Also, I personally do not think it would be sensible to file a lawsuit over a vet bill of this size, whether or not it was due to complete negligence.
[QUOTE=trubandloki;8231987]
I believe Dungrulla took out the post she made because she realized she read the original post wrong.[/QUOTE]
Ooo, gotcha! :lol: I was trying to figure out how Dungrulla was going to redact a post made by FineAlready! But you have clarified for me! LOL!
[QUOTE=Wonders12;8231809]
You pay. (Unless the trainer generously offers, but there’s no requirement there.)
I would hope the trainer would care for her (holding for the vet, cleaning, any stall rest/walking, etc.) for free. Since both horses were in his care, and it happened because he did not secure the horses correctly, I think that’s a reasonable expectation. If it were a pasture accident, I wouldn’t expect that.[/QUOTE]
This sounds right.
You pay for the vet visit because all “sh!t happens” gets charged to the HO.
But I’d hope the trainer would also do things to “make it right”-- do your mare’s treatment for free, feed her for those couple extra weeks she’ll stay while he makes sure she comes back to you all healed up.
If I were in your trainer’s shoes, that’s what I’d do-- I’d make sure the horse was cared for and try to give the HO something worth money (the feed and extra care), even if I couldn’t afford to pay someone else’s vet bill.
Unless I had been a complete idiot and materially contributed to the wreck, I wouldn’t feel obligated to pay the vet bill for a horse that got hurt on my farm.
Speaking as a HO in this spot, no one offered to pay the vet bill for my hurt horse even though there was at least some pilot error in the cause of the injury. And when I have been the WS who contributed to an over-reach injury in a horse I turned out, I wasn’t asked to pay.
If the pro is contrite and trying to make things right, accept that as enough and go with the convention that the HO is the buck stopper… and the buck payer.
Just an update. I spoke with the trainer this morning and asked him how much the vet bill is so I can reimburse him. He said it happened on his time and he’s paying. I had planned to give him some extra money at the end so will just give him more than what I had originally planned.
[QUOTE=sunnyray;8231694]
It’s the trainer’s horse who “untied herself” and kicked mine. He had asked prior to this if he could keep her for a couple weeks to use on the ranch as his usual horse had recently been injured.[/QUOTE]
So your horse is not under training but is there as a favor to the trainer, and it is his horse that injured yours, while this happened? If this is the case, the trainer pays.
Normally the horse owner pays. Under this situation, trainer pays.
I agree its typically your job to pay. I just find it so interesting that if dog A bites dog B (in play, at a dog park, etc) dog A’s owner always pays. Horse people are far more pragmatic.
Well, what does your training contract say about liability for injuries while at the trainers?
Side notes: I would specifically amend that contract to address this new situation of him free-leasing her for ranch operations. Lots and lots of things can happen to a working ranch horse, you need to have a very clear idea of who pays for what. Immediate vet care is one thing-- what if she’s returned to you permanently unsound? Will he pay her farrier costs, since it sounds like she’ll have been there for longer than a trim cycle?
You can say you trust the trainer, he’s a friend, etc all you want, but that will go out the window the second there’s a serious dispute. Get it in writing.
When you send a horse to a trainer doesn’t the trainer become responsible for care, custody and control of that animal? Anyone runnng a horse business needs to carry c, c & c insurance–if they don’t, don’t put/send your horse there!
I would be looking to the trainer to pay the bill. It happened under his watch on his property.
[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8232055]
This type of situation would fall under a Care, Custody & Control policy, not a liability policy, only IF you could prove the trainer was actually negligent and the accident was not due to horses being horses. A CC&C policy does not pay out for random accidents and injuries. Also, I personally do not think it would be sensible to file a lawsuit over a vet bill of this size, whether or not it was due to complete negligence.[/QUOTE]
I did not know there was a CC&C policy. When I took my insurance courses, a business liability policy covered property owned by others that was in the cc&c of the business (for example, a garment at a dry cleaning business) and negligence did not have to be proved (??verbage help me!). But the course did not cover equine, so maybe that is different. And yes, filing a claim could strain a relationship.
[QUOTE=sunnyray;8232270]
Just an update. I spoke with the trainer this morning and asked him how much the vet bill is so I can reimburse him. He said it happened on his time and he’s paying. I had planned to give him some extra money at the end so will just give him more than what I had originally planned.[/QUOTE]
You guys sound like you have a really friendly and fair approach to doing business-- both of you. It’s so nice when that happens. I know horse trainers work hard and horses do stupid things, so I’m especially grateful when someone steps up and offers to take responsibility…. such that, like you, I make sure they don’t have to do that for my animal. Or I try to split the difference of the cost of sh!t happening with them. Good for you, OP!
Any update on your horse ?
[QUOTE=BUSY;8240403]
Any update on your horse ?[/QUOTE]
She’s healing up well. She has an appointment tomorrow with the vet, just for a progress check. No signs of infection and her stitches are looking good. Was pretty sore the first couple days but is pretty much back to normal now.
[QUOTE=Alagirl;8231725]
Interesting coincidence…
Have you seen the injury?
Just saying…
Are you sure he said edema, not hematoma?
And while I am sure there are injuries to the area under the tail…that isn’t a really big target zone for horses to get kicked at…[/QUOTE]
Just so you know, yrs ago I had a mare that was cornered and kicked by another mare in their paddock. The kick was to the vagina. The vet was at a show and couldn’t come so we loaded her on a trailer and took her to him. Lucky it wasn’t very far. Show organizers waved us right in and to the vet. He started to treat her in the trailer. Was worried about shock since it’s a extremely painful injury. Blood everywhere under her tail. Cleaned and stitched the wound. Fill her with drugs and watched her for awhile. Then we took her home. Had to keep her by herself and wound clean and then eventually Desitisn to keep flies away.
That type of injury can be severe and life threatening. It happens.
Are you sure he said edema, not hematoma?
[QUOTE=jetsmom;8231830]
She doesn’t have any stallions on the property does she? That may have gotten loose, and she needs time to administer lutalayse and make sure she goes into heat normally? Odd spot for a kick to land…[/QUOTE]
:lol::lol::lol:
For those who don’t understand the above posts, please google and read up. Especially since I assume it’s mostly females posting on the thread, learning where the vagina is can be useful…
I’m glad the trainer and OP seem to have both handled the situation very well, and hope the horse heals well.
[QUOTE=sunnyray;8231633]
Hello,
I have my horse at a trainer for a tune up. While there, her and another horse were tied near each other. The other horse got loose and began kicking my horse. She has a severe edema (on vagina) and required stitches. My question is, who pays the vet bill? The trainer hasn’t asked me to pay and is keeping her for a couple extra weeks to tend to her injuries. I’m just not sure how something like this would usually be handled…[/QUOTE]
It would be nice if the trainer told the owner of the horse that attacked yours and they at least offered to cover( or half) the cost. If the horse got loose because of trainer than the trainer should pay ( in my opinion).
Unfortunately most of the time the poor owner foots the bill. If you haven’t yet been asked to pay you might be one of the lucky few, or it will be on your end of month bill…
[QUOTE=m&m;8231932]
My horse got kicked in the same place. No stallions anywhere, and the BO is someone I would trust with my life. Not typical, but not unique.[/QUOTE]
Mine did, too.
[QUOTE=honeylips;8232001]
Sorry to hear about the accident and I agree most likely you are responsible unless the other horse was a known problem. But there is no way your horse was “kicked in the vagina” unless the hoof went inside the mare. The vagina is internal. The vulva is the external lady bits (on horses and people). A very vascularized area and can be easily swollen, but will just as easily have the swelling go down.[/QUOTE]
Yes, a hoof can go into the vagina during a kick. It happens.
owner pays. It happens.
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