Question regarding boarding

[Eleanor]

[QUOTE=Sweetums Mom;8852013]
If that was me saying that (we feed what each horse needs), then I mean exactly that…no matter how much grain/hay. However, my idea of good weight on a horse may not be the same as the HO’s. HO needs to ask for clarification.[/QUOTE]

This was me. I feed what a horse needed to keep in good weight for the work it was doing. Pasture puffs might end up getting a lot less then the horse that was being rode 6 days a week. Or that old TB mare that started to lose weight might end up coming in at night for a extra feeding of grain even if she is not being worked.

Now that I am boarding. I always go and look at how the horses look, are they in good weight are they all QHs or is there TBs in the barn as well. You need to know what type of horses they are feeding as well as how much. because if someone that has always had easy keeper QHs has a TB come in will they feed the TB the same as the easy keeper QHs.

My one guy is 17.3 and work not live on 2 flakes of hay twice a day. But I also don’t have a problem with buying extra hay and feeding it to him.

One barn I was at only feed 2 flakes or 1/8 of a bale twice a day. I bought extra hay and would put there supplied hay in the hay net and add what extra my guys needed. I over heard a girl ask another board way my horses where in better shape then the others in the barn. Because I feed what they needed.

Sorry but if I eat $10.00 to $20.00 worth of food a day. I sure don’t have a problem with my horse eating $10-20 worth of hay a day. If the cats food budget is $80.00 a month then I have no problem with my horses hay budget being $300.00 a month.

Horses not being feed enough is a big pet peeve to me. Sorry I will get off my soap box now.

[merrygoround]

Watching my BO feed, I’d say they feed exactly what each horse needs. A horse that cleans up all its hay gets more, a horse that leaves it, tosses it around the stall, gets less. Relative to grain, hay in inexpensive. Keeping hay in front of them keeps a peaceful barn.

During winter turn out, hay is spread to end “pile wars”. Many more piles than horses in very large pastures.

So yes, Beowulf has just had the misfortune of bad BO.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=merrygoround;8854113]
Watching my BO feed, I’d say they feed exactly what each horse needs. A horse that cleans up all its hay gets more, a horse that leaves it, tosses it around the stall, gets less. Relative to grain, hay in inexpensive. Keeping hay in front of them keeps a peaceful barn.

During winter turn out, hay is spread to end “pile wars”. Many more piles than horses in very large pastures.

So yes, Beowulf has just had the misfortune of bad BO.[/QUOTE]

So at your barn, the horses have hay in front of them, 24/7?

My horses are at home because I strongly believe in the “hay & turnout 24/7” ideal. It has saved me a lot of headache.

All the same, not a single barn local to me (I am in Boston) truly has 24/7 hay in front of their horses, at all time unless those horses are on 24/7 T/O with a round bale. Including the very well run barns with good BOs. So no, I have not run into the misfortune of having bad BOs.

Most barns that have stalls, the stalled horses go without hay from 11 PM to 6/7AM. They are fed dinner hay or put in their stalls with 1-2 flakes in haynets. They are given night check hay and that is it until sunup. This is usual protocol for most boarding barns.

Actually, in most boarding barns I’ve been to, horses are brought in at 5pm with a flake of hay in their stall. Fed a flake at 7 PM. Then a nightcheck flake at 9. They go 5pm to 6 am in their stalls. This seems to be a normal routine for most barns. Most horses can go through a flake in 20-45 minutes, depending on weight… so that’s a lot of time without hay in front of them.

“Free choice” is a buzzword. I’d make sure to investigate a barn carefully if they choose to use that word. Unless they have a human dropping flakes of hay every 30 minutes, or a roundbale that horses have absolute unfettered access to, it is not “free choice”.

[netg]

When I boarded at a public facility, most of the boarders were quarter type (AQHA or APHA) and didn’t require a lot of hay. My BO was clear that if extra was wanted past 20lbs/day there was a charge and what that charge was. No problem. I might have minded with my mare who lives in a herd now and eats a LOT. The herd gets close to 50lbs/horse, and several of them eat a lot less. I suspect she is near the top of the herd in quantity eaten. Last summer while she was growing we were free feeding her grass hay to the best of our ability on top of 20 lbs/day of alfalfa, and she was eating about 80lbs of hay a day.
My trainer’s private barn on his property is the first boarding situation with grain included I have seen as an adult. They also do not make money on board - expenses are calculated and divided, including all those items not usually calculated by those of us who aren’t barn owners. This includes things like the cost of hauling out manure, weekend feeders, etc.

[MoonWitch]

My boarders are fed according to need. Air ferns get a handful of grain (to not feel left out at feeding time) and others get as much as four quarts of grain/beet pulp etc. Some also get supplemented with soaked hay cubes while others get a flake. All maintain a weight that is healthy for each individual horse.

Any changes to diet (add/subtract etc) are discussed and agreed upon with owner.

[PDDT]

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;8853926]
I can’t guess what ‘feed what they need’ means.

Is this what boarders do these day; i.e. let the barn manager decide what kind and how much to feed a horse? Don’t you think horse owners should know how much hay and grain their horse needs and it should be them telling the barn manger, not the other way around.[/QUOTE]

A great many owners don’t have that experience and/or knowledge. As someone who has always boarded my horses, I have become knowledgeable about feed but certainly relied on the barn owner (who was also my coach) when I bought my first horse. We all start somewhere. There are lots of reasons why people board - and for some people, they are amateur horse owners. I’m not saying that is a good thing - but after almost 40 years of boarding horses, it is from my observance more the norm than the exception.

I tend to have the problem going into a new barn of establishing with the barn owner that I am knowledgeable about my horses nutritional needs and any changes in his diet are to be discussed with me first. Most BO aren’t used to a boarder that is interested and knowledgeable. I have lots of questions before I board! I find the statement of feeding what they need to be meaningless. You need to ask specific questions about hay programs and grain programs. My horse is a hard keeper but gets hot from some grain so feeding him can be tricky - so I want to know how much flexibility they have - if the only offer 2 grains and won’t let me bring in my own that might not work for me. And in saying that, I understand why that might be the best model for them - so you need to investigate, ask the right questions before moving your horse.

I feel very lucky in my current barn - my BO grows wonderful hay and doesn’t mind if you throw your horse the odd extra flake. She likes her horses to look nice and sleek and adjusts their grain accordingly. She is very knowledgeable (more so then me!) but would never change his feed without making sure I was in agreement.

In my area many of the barns charge separately for grain. Hay is not part of that charge. I think this is a bad practice. It means that the BO can underfeed hay and you end up paying more for grain and in fact feeding grain when they should be getting forage. As well as that, I think it could put the BO in the bad position of having an underweight horse that the owner doesn’t want to pay enough to feed properly.

[fordtraktor]

My boarder horses and my horses truly have hay in front of them 24/7 unless the horse owner requests less. I also have two types of hay. The TBs can (and some are) on free choice alf/orchard mix. The fatties on a nice first cutting that is less rich. one mare likes variety so she gets some of each. I don’t think it’s impossible to find that but generally not at big barns unless they are top-notch AAA show barns (like my trainer growing up, he always fed free choice).

It’s often a balance between amenities and good feeding though – I don’t have an indoor and charge the same as most places here with one, because my feed costs are higher than the “2 flakes to everyone” barns. And my bedding costs are high because I, you know, actually bed the stalls.

That said, 2 horses here are super prone to fatness and they get some reduction in hay. One stays in overnight and his owner limits his hay (she feeds it and can use what she likes, he gets 2-3 flakes depending on how big the flakes in the bale are). The other is my kids’ pony and spends half the day out with a muzzle on a netted bale and the other half she is in a small paddock – I toss her a flake of hay midday to keep her weight in control. She could still lose 50 pounds but she looks decent and I’m not worried about founder now.

I would probably tell inquirers that I feed what the horse needs but I mean concentrate – horses get from a handful to 10 lbs a day here depending on how hard of a keeper they are. I do retirees often so they sometimes need more to look good. I don’t believe retirees need to look bad just because they are old.

Just be sure to ask prospective barns how they feed hay separate from a basic “what the horse needs.” I don’t care for barns who feed a tiny bit of hay and then shovel tons of concentrate into the horses because it is cheaper. That’s not good for them. I try to make hay as much of their diet as possible but I decided right away that I wasn’t going to board if I couldn’t feed “my way” and I’d just charge enough to make that possible.

my dad also feeds the same way, the horses all look great and our places are full so I think people generally like the care.

[runNjump86]

Every barn I have boarded recently has the same procedure:

Horses are grained, then turned out on pasture in the AM. If turned out in dry lot (usually 2 horses per lot, sometimes 3) then each horse gets 3 flakes. These are typical small bale flakes, not giant by any stretch of the imagination. Roughly 10-12lbs. Horses are brought in (if stalled) around 4pm where grain and 3 more flakes are waiting. That’s it. No more. Morning hay is hoovered, unless trampled into the mud, within one hour. Evening hay is hoovered in the same amount of time. Then, nothing until 6/7am.

There was only one barn that would do night hay on “as needed” basis. They also realized that the fat Connemara needed less hay than the rangy TB. Unfortunately the BO was batshit.

This has been a complete and utter shock to me, since the area I used to live/board every single barn fed lunch and had hay in front of horses as much as possible. Even at a competition barn full of TB or TB crosses, nobody was skinny. Fit, yes. Some ribs, yes. The hard keepers were stuffed with as much hay as they could possibly get. Here it seems that if your horse doesn’t do well on 3 flakes of hay and 1 scoop of grain twice a day, then your horse is deemed a hard keeper or high maintenance. And don’t get me going on actually bedding the stall. It’s also the norm to consider half a bag (you know, the ones you get at shows, so not huge) plenty for a 12x12 stall. :eek:

[runNjump86]

[QUOTE=PDDT;8855430]
A great many owners don’t have that experience and/or knowledge. As someone who has always boarded my horses, I have become knowledgeable about feed but certainly relied on the barn owner (who was also my coach) when I bought my first horse. We all start somewhere. There are lots of reasons why people board - and for some people, they are amateur horse owners. I’m not saying that is a good thing - but after almost 40 years of boarding horses, it is from my observance more the norm than the exception.

I tend to have the problem going into a new barn of establishing with the barn owner that I am knowledgeable about my horses nutritional needs and any changes in his diet are to be discussed with me first. Most BO aren’t used to a boarder that is interested and knowledgeable. I have lots of questions before I board! I find the statement of feeding what they need to be meaningless. You need to ask specific questions about hay programs and grain programs. My horse is a hard keeper but gets hot from some grain so feeding him can be tricky - so I want to know how much flexibility they have - if the only offer 2 grains and won’t let me bring in my own that might not work for me. And in saying that, I understand why that might be the best model for them - so you need to investigate, ask the right questions before moving your horse.

I feel very lucky in my current barn - my BO grows wonderful hay and doesn’t mind if you throw your horse the odd extra flake. She likes her horses to look nice and sleek and adjusts their grain accordingly. She is very knowledgeable (more so then me!) but would never change his feed without making sure I was in agreement.

In my area many of the barns charge separately for grain. Hay is not part of that charge. I think this is a bad practice. It means that the BO can underfeed hay and you end up paying more for grain and in fact feeding grain when they should be getting forage. As well as that, I think it could put the BO in the bad position of having an underweight horse that the owner doesn’t want to pay enough to feed properly.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Most HO will feed whatever the BO/BM recommends, and if it works for them, that’s totally fine. Like you I’m very knowledgeable about what my horse needs. I’m open to suggestions but at the end of the day I know my horse will not do well on a high NSC feed like Purina Ultium. I am adamant about feeding my own grain, mostly so I know I am the one to blame if something goes wrong. I won’t board at a facility that will not allow baggies. Now, if they were feeding the grain I’m feeding, that’s a different ballgame. But I refuse to put my horse on grain that I know won’t work for him just because the BO/BM says “Well Pookie came here looking super skinny and look at how fat he is now! *points to a QH” Sure, there are a lot of horses that will do well on Nutrena SafeChoice or Purina Strategy or something similar, but mine is not one of them.

[candyappy]

[QUOTE=runNjump86;8852943]
I appreciate the replies and the honesty. I, too assume that when a BO/BM states “we feed each horse based on their needs” that it means the air ferns/hard keepers balance each other out, within reason.

This is something I’ve run into a couple times lately and apparently it means “We limit hay to X flakes”. X is an amount that most easy keepers can maintain on, but is not nearly enough for every horse.[/QUOTE]

I can’t believe what boarders today have to put up with. Feeding based on what the horse needs= FEEDING WHAT THE HORSE NEEDS TO MAINTAIN HIS WEIGHT. If you have special circumstances or high level training issues that require tons of feed than that is another story.

Limiting to X amount of flakes by horse is nuts.

[cnigh]

I think it means that a horse will be fed what it needs within reason. I always expect to supplement hay and feed when necessary. I.e. a hard keeper TB or a draft horse will need extra at all times. I don’t expect a barn to do that.

My boarding arrangement is outdoor board with round bales and a stall in bad weather. ( or when I want to use it). I supply the bedding, grain and extra hay when my horse is inside. I think this is more than fair.

I have worked and boarded at several different barns with different levels of care. I like having my own basics stored so I can always give more or less as needed.

Gone are the days of 24/7 hay. It’s just too expensive.

[toady123]

What I think what a HO thinks that means and how the BO actually behaves can be very different things. At the end of the day, I think clear guidelines with any defined rules and limits (and options if your horse goes over that limit) are required so that nobody needs to interpret meaning.

[gypsymare]

[QUOTE=runNjump86;8855628]
I agree. Most HO will feed whatever the BO/BM recommends, and if it works for them, that’s totally fine. Like you I’m very knowledgeable about what my horse needs. I’m open to suggestions but at the end of the day I know my horse will not do well on a high NSC feed like Purina Ultium. I am adamant about feeding my own grain, mostly so I know I am the one to blame if something goes wrong. I won’t board at a facility that will not allow baggies. Now, if they were feeding the grain I’m feeding, that’s a different ballgame. But I refuse to put my horse on grain that I know won’t work for him just because the BO/BM says “Well Pookie came here looking super skinny and look at how fat he is now! *points to a QH” Sure, there are a lot of horses that will do well on Nutrena SafeChoice or Purina Strategy or something similar, but mine is not one of them.[/QUOTE]

Ultium is 15%. Thats high?? It’s on par with most second cutting hay. What are you feeding that you consider low?

[fordtraktor]

I dont allow baggies as a “barn rule” because in the past I have been burned by boarders who don’t re supply and the horse goes hungry which I think is unacceptable. Or we have to decide if it can have something else as a one-off, also not OK.

That said, my current boarder has proven she is extremely responsible and I let her do some baggies for a picky mare who eats best if her food is changed often. You have to prove your reliability to get this privilege though! So many boarders are not responsible. I don’t run out of grain.

I also feed low NSC feed – TC Senior for the hard keepers – so it isn’t like I am feeding cheap feed or anything. I would not consider this an issue you should choose as your hill to die on in the right circumstance. Make inquiries first.

[runNjump86]

[QUOTE=gypsymare;8855976]
Ultium is 15%. Thats high?? It’s on par with most second cutting hay. What are you feeding that you consider low?[/QUOTE]

My bad…I meant Omolene. I couldn’t remember which bag I saw.

I’ve been feeding Nutrena Pro Force Fuel for nearly two years. Before that I was feeding Pennfield, but then they stopped shipping out west. I went with TC Senior but at the time it got to be too expensive. The Nutrena was about $4/bag cheaper and the most similar available. However, I truly don’t remember the NSC being 20% when I switched over to it. I chose the feed because it is high fat, low starch. TC Senior is under 12%. Now I’m wondering if Nutrena has changed the feed a bit. I may go back to TC Sr and see what happens.

fordtraktor while I agree that baggies can be a PITA (I will admit to running out but never for more than one meal. He will survive missing just one!) I truly prefer being in charge of his grain. If we weren’t set to move every few years I may have a different mindset. It might also be different if Purina Strategy or SafeChoice wasn’t the norm. Don’t get me wrong, I have fed SC in the past. It’s a safe feed for many horses, but IME it doesn’t quite cut the mustard when feeding TB’s, unless the forage is amazing.

[fordtraktor]

Pro force fuel is 20% NSC! I know because I was looking last week since TC is having supply problems here post-manufacture switch.

[coloredhorse]

Having run such a barn … gawd, yes! :lol: I had everything from hard-keeping TBs with hummingbird metabolisms to chubby air ferns to elderly ladies and gents who didn’t chew as well as they used to do. The air ferns would be wider than they were tall if given free-choice hay and grazing, the old folks would slowly starve if expected to eat only the hay provided to the younger horses and the hard keepers would waste away on anything less than free choice.

I was very clear with incoming and current boarders that the board rate was based on an average that balanced costs across the whole population, so they would likely see horses with more or less hay in front of them at any given time. Everyone seemed to be fine with the amount of hay their horses received; everyone also got daily grazing, as well–albeit with muzzles for a couple of fatty-fatty-two-by-fours (including one who was mine).

As a boarder, I was always much more suspicious of barns that had a “formula” for feeding. There’s no way one approach will fit all in any boarding operation that has more than a few very homogenous horses.

[pezk]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8854125]
So at your barn, the horses have hay in front of them, 24/7?

My horses are at home because I strongly believe in the “hay & turnout 24/7” ideal. It has saved me a lot of headache.

All the same, not a single barn local to me (I am in Boston) truly has 24/7 hay in front of their horses, at all time unless those horses are on 24/7 T/O with a round bale. Including the very well run barns with good BOs. So no, I have not run into the misfortune of having bad BOs.

Most barns that have stalls, the stalled horses go without hay from 11 PM to 6/7AM. They are fed dinner hay or put in their stalls with 1-2 flakes in haynets. They are given night check hay and that is it until sunup. This is usual protocol for most boarding barns.

Actually, in most boarding barns I’ve been to, horses are brought in at 5pm with a flake of hay in their stall. Fed a flake at 7 PM. Then a nightcheck flake at 9. They go 5pm to 6 am in their stalls. This seems to be a normal routine for most barns. Most horses can go through a flake in 20-45 minutes, depending on weight… so that’s a lot of time without hay in front of them.

“Free choice” is a buzzword. I’d make sure to investigate a barn carefully if they choose to use that word. Unless they have a human dropping flakes of hay every 30 minutes, or a roundbale that horses have absolute unfettered access to, it is not “free choice”.[/QUOTE]

I board outside of Boston and the horses are hayed when they are grained, then T/O, hayed at 9, 11, brought in around 2 with hay in stalls, hay again around 5, and then at nite check. Most horses are TBs and they get at least 2 flakes per meal, sometimes more. My horse is an air fern and foundered on that much hay. Now she gets a only a small flake at each meal. And this is local grass hay.

I also supply baggies for gr because the barn feeds Nutrena and my air fern gets the lowest NSC possible, TC Senior. 1 cup am and pm with 1 to 2 cups alfafa pellets to prevent ulcers and mixed with her supplements. Works for her.

[fordtraktor]

I do my free choice by using really BIG nets. I use the biggest size NibbleNets and I am very good and shoving nearly half a bale of hay in them. I add more as they get low. Outside I feed in bale-size nets too, 2 bales for each field of 2 horses. I add another when it gets low. I think those PortaGrazers come in a size that looks like you could use it free choice too if you get the big one and stuff it full of hay but I don’t have any of those.

Plenty of ways to do free choice but this is the one that works for me to give horses all the hay they want without encouraging waste. My rule is “horses can have all the hay they want but they can’t waste it!” The nets truly keep loss at a minimum. I don’t use the tiny size holes either, I think the 2" holes are small enough to reduce waste and big enough so horses can get plenty.

[runNjump86]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8857053]
I do my free choice by using really BIG nets. I use the biggest size NibbleNets and I am very good and shoving nearly half a bale of hay in them. I add more as they get low. Outside I feed in bale-size nets too, 2 bales for each field of 2 horses. I add another when it gets low. I think those PortaGrazers come in a size that looks like you could use it free choice too if you get the big one and stuff it full of hay but I don’t have any of those.

Plenty of ways to do free choice but this is the one that works for me to give horses all the hay they want without encouraging waste. My rule is “horses can have all the hay they want but they can’t waste it!” The nets truly keep loss at a minimum. I don’t use the tiny size holes either, I think the 2" holes are small enough to reduce waste and big enough so horses can get plenty.[/QUOTE]

Love this!!! If I had my own place (not necessarily a boarding facility, just my own farm) this is what I would do. I used the Freedom Feeder nets in CA and loved them as well. I got really good at stuffing that thing so full my horse would have hay leftover in the morning.

I’m in the “can’t waste” camp too. The problem is, when my horse is stalled, he will occasionally walk and he’s not the cleanest, so if the hay is just tossed on the ground some of it will get wasted. When he has a net full of hay the waste is reduced by about 95%, and he doesn’t walk as much, resulting in a somewhat cleaner stall. Even if he kept a cleaner stall I don’t like feeding straight on the ground as I feel there will always be more wasted. Obviously there will be some waste no matter what, but keeping it off the bedding at least helps.

What kills me is when people complain about horses wasting hay, and using that as an excuse not to feed extra. Yet they feed on the ground outside, in the mud, instead of using some sort of feeder. Hell, even an old galvanized water tank would be better than throwing it straight on the ground! I see this at many barns, and it boggles my mind.