Questioning a board price increase - yes, I understand inflation

None of these are a justification for a pay raise at any other job.

I’m sure my intern would really like a new BMW and a summer share in the hamptons but unfortunately he’s an intern so that’s gonna have to wait until his responsibilities and/or skills justify an increase in his pay.

An increase in market rate for labor? Sure. A desire to drive a new $80,000 pickup? Not so much. It would be a lot easier to do my job with new laptops for everybody. Those are budgeted for every 5 years. I’m 3 years out so it’s gonna have to wait.

That’s how running a business works. My board just went up by $150/mo but thankfully I’m sure it’s not going to cover my barn owner’s new $125k Tesla.

5 Likes

What…BO is not an employee asking for a raise…is it popcorn time?

7 Likes

“I can’t afford the things I want” is not what drives the market price for a good or service, be it a salary or price of board.

4 Likes

Me too, when we had to raise rates I just explained hay prices went from X a ton to Y a ton, which was not temporary, and so the rate was being raised to reflect that. My three boarders said they understood and it wasn’t an issue.

6 Likes

I didn’t when I raised rates due to hay price increases. But I may have if i had some looming capital expenses or improvements. Businesses aren’t one size fits all for every situation. Some people use boarding as their only source of income, others use it essentially as a tax shelter to run expenses through, and there is a lot of in between. What’s “right” for you and your business, if you have one, might not be right or needed for mine.

6 Likes

Barn owners are not interns. It’s not just a job, it’s owning and running a business. Interns can quit and find another job. A barn owner is stuck with all the expenses that come with the business. Many barn owners want their business expenses covered and not live worrying about paying their own personal expenses while their clients are enjoying their hobbies with their disposable income.

9 Likes

I had a long post written but I think it’s better to just shelve it.

If the idea is that a business owner deserves to draw an increased salary every year regardless of whether their business creates an increased profit, I think there’s a fundamental misunderstanding about how businesses work at the sole proprietorship or small partnership level.

7 Likes

It’s not about a barn owner deserving an annual raise regardless of profit. If people are able and willing to pay the increase, does the reason for the increase in board matter? The barn owner takes a risk raising the price of board, as well as takes the risk of even running a boarding business.

It reminds me of a friend who is an artist. He travels to shows and decided to raise his prices considerably at one art show because “why not.” He ended up making more money (selling less items) with higher prices. He took a risk doing that knowing he could have walked away with a zero show, not having met expenses.

4 Likes

Does anybody figure the expertise and experience managing horses of the BO into their valuation of board services? Its not just about commodity and operating costs Is that worth considering when questioning costs?

11 Likes

Lololol.

No, my board increases are not padded to give myself a raise right now, because everyone is struggling and I guess we can all struggle together. I’d be a right POS if I felt this was the moment to increase my income to $7.50 a horse per day!

Luckily I am a highly educated person with another “revenue stream” called a profitable job. I love horses (most days!) and want to show my own horse this year, though, so I guess I’m OK with muddling along on $3/day.

You really, really don’t understand the horse industry. You cannot run an equine business like you would a startup. It is like any other farm, overcapitalized and full of risk.

Go on and preach at us, until we no longer exist and you can’t find a place to ride.

14 Likes

@findeight they don’t, until the BO damn near kills their horse from mismanagement. At that point they either can go out every day or pay a top-notch, experienced facility like mine.

4 Likes

And yet I see people constantly complaining they can’t find a place to board without being in a full training board situation. They don’t get it.

6 Likes

OK, so, how do you increase the profits at your boarding business? Well, you could increase your board rate…wow, exactly what we’ve been talking about. How about that? :roll_eyes:

Unless, of course, you would prefer that your BO reduce expenses instead by buying lower quality feed and hay and using less bedding and reducing labor costs by not cleaning water buckets and stalls as often.

Your comments are entirely irrelevant to running a boarding facility. For example, you don’t think having a reliable truck is essential to the running of a horse barn? You would prefer that your BO not have a vehicle to go pick up feed and supplies? A truck to pull the horse trailer? You don’t think having a farm truck is a business expense? You don’t think the business ought to pay for the truck used in the business?

14 Likes

I don’t think @soloudinhere misunderstands the business. She was just saying that the other poster doesn’t get how small businesses work. Which is true. You don’t peg your labor to an hourly wage: you work on profit margins. If you are very lucky you can pay yourself a salary, but mostly it is done on the basis of paying your expenses and using any profit to live/feed your own horses/show, etc. She is right about that.

Currently sitting on my feed bins and typing while I give my barn cat some time. Honestly no one does this for $. We do it because we love it down to the barn cat. Could he be any cuter? Don’t take advantage of us.

16 Likes

This thread has been fascinating to me.

As a long time facility owner, I’ve been irritated at some of the mindset here- until I remembered- hey I used to not have a clue either!

I boarded for years and truly didn’t understand the costs time aggravation until I purchased my own place and quickly learned it’s NOT just the cost of bedding hay feed and time to muck. Not to mention the 2/7/365 a year.

I posted mid-thread about a model that has been working for me (after burning out on full boarding)- carefully screened clients with a min number of horses that I charge a per-stall dry rate and they provide all their own bedding, hay, feed, labor (mucking feeding Turning in and out etc)

After following the thread I got to thinking about more of a hybrid model where I’d provide the stall, amenities, mucking, turn in out, some portion of overhead, and a small profit to me for doing so. Boarders pay for their own variable costs- bedding, hay, feed, apportioned utilities.

Buckle up, here we go:

An hour per day per horse: this includes 40 min for mucking rebedding feeding 2x/day turn in out, for YOUR HORSE plus an estimated addl 10 min per horse for general property maintenance - dragging ring daily, fixing broken things (NOT the cost of the parts), mowing/weedwacking so you have a nice place and not a dump, checking on the horses at night, oops one doesn’t look so hot so now you are up waiting for a vet and can’t get hold of the owner because they are out of town and it’s your problem. lol An addl 10 min per horse for admin and some small amount of profit. 1 hr x $15/hr x 30 days = $450.

$25/mo utilities- water, electric, manure management (I have to get it removed weekly, that costs me $600-900/mo) having a bathroom available that is not a stall with toilet paper and soap to wash your hands

$25/mo for equipment maintenance- diesel for tractor to drag the ring; oil/fuel filter/ parts for the tractor that drags the ring; replacement waterers for horses that break them; replacement boards that get broken. Fancy new jumps? LOL

So we are up to $500 before your horse has eaten a flake of hay.

Now we get into the costs you pay- and this is the part where I think all boarders (and I used to be one!) could really use a lesson in current costs:

Bedding- One bag of bedding per day @$10 = $300/mo

Hay- 1100lb horse x 2% body weight = 22lbs/day = 660 lbs/mo @$460/ton = $150

Feed- This one is all over the map but right now a 50 lb bag of feed is about $35. 5lbs/day is about $100/mo

All of the above- you are at $1050/mo. Yes, this is truly what it costs. And my place isn’t even that fancy. It’s nice but it sure won’t be showcased in any magazines.

Coming back to the 2/7/365 a year? Wanna get away for a bit? Double all those costs to get someone in to take care of the horses that you trust. And you’ll still have anxiety on your vacay about what might go wrong.

I’ve tried to price this in a way that is agnostic to the location in the country. I’d welcome other facility owners to weigh in with their costs

20 Likes

This has been a fascinating read so far, and as a numbers person (never mind that I’m truly awful at math), the above post by @hey101 got me thinking.

My mare is currently out in a sheltered paddock, she has heated water and hay 24/7 with a slow feed net. She’s been stalled in the past at fancier facilities, but seems just as happy in her current set-up. Just for comparison’s sake - and I’m going to base this all on a field of, on average, five equines because that’s just how my brain likes to set-up calculations like this:

Pasture board per 5 equines each month:

5 hours a month scraping the paddock
4 hours scrubbing and refilling the trough (30 mins/week)
5 hours feeding grain in wearable feed bags (10 min/day)
2 hours refilling hay (round bale)
5 hours doing general property maintenance
3 hours doing misc. admin, advertising, etc.

= 24.5 hrs per month or approx 5 hours per month per equine in terms of labour cost x $15/hr = $75 per equine per month

Stall board per 5 equines each month:

100 hours mucking and turnout/bring-in (40 mins/horse/day)
3 hours a month scraping the paddock (they still spend a chunk of time there after all)
4 hours scrubbing and refilling the trough (30 mins/week)
1 hour refilling their round bale (again, only out there 1/2 the time)
5 hours doing general property maintenance
3 hours doing misc. admin, advertising, etc.

= 116 hrs per month or approx 23 hours per month per equine in terms of labour cost x $15/hr = $345 per equine per month

So the labour cost alone to keep a horse stalled is 4.5x that of a horse kept on outdoor board (not to mention the cost of shavings), yet where I am, stall board costs just 1.75x that of pasture board :thinking:

4 Likes

As a farm owner I can assure you that five hours per month of general property maintenance is absolutely ridiculous. My place would look like a dump if that’s all the time that was spent on maintenance.

19 Likes

I spend easily 30 hours a month on my property on maintenance, mowing, clearing snow pathways, fixing fences, watering, weeding, scrubbing, plus 50 other thousand things.

13 Likes

My comment is that you all should just be happy to have a place. Our barn just announced that they are closing in a few month. Costs and burn out. Our only viable other option is a mixed discipline facility and board will go from $1000 to $1500!! I’d love to pay a $50 increase… just saying

13 Likes

Although these numbers will vary quite a bit depending on your location and services offered… yeah. Hey 101 kind of has this right. I believe there are big changes ahead for many folks that board horses, and recent inflation only plays a part. Another huge factor is the cost of labor which has shot up in the Covid times… and of course, the value of land.

Sometimes boarders think barn owners are ‘making bank’ because they know the cost of a bale of hay, and a bag of shavings. What they don’t know are all other others costs for things it takes to keep a nice barn going. If you ever really want to know, ask your barn owner how much they spend on water and electricity and labor and diesel and fly control and manure disposal and insurance and tractors and drags and water wagons and manure forks and waterer parts and fertilizer and grass seed and drills and mowers and almost-daily trips to the hardware store and worker’s comp insurance, and supplies for their helpers and irrigation supplies and trash disposal and toilet paper and hand soap and replacing stall mats and light bulbs and rodent control and footing replacement and jumps and obstacles and new feeders and stall gates and fencing and hand tools…you get the picture.

Running a barn is like running a small school or factory- there are a lot of things that need to be done consistently to keep it humming along And it also take some skilled or at least very experienced labor to keep it going too. When my local McDonald’s has a banner that says “Starting $16/hour” rest assured I can’t get someone to show up and clean stalls for less than $18… plus insurance, vacation pay, and benefits. And overtime, since the horses want to eat and poop on the weekends.

Suburban horsekeeping will still be possible but competition’s going to get keener and keener for the remaining places to keep horses that are in areas desirable for those who live or work near bigger cities. Prices will rise based on increased costs and reduced availability… it’s going to be painful and some folks will either have to move their horses where they can’t see them often, or forego horse ownership all together.

Just a reminder, however- your barn owner is not obligated to make your horse life possible. Many of us who board horses have figured out it’s a break-even business at best if we want to have a nice place for your horses, and we do it because we love horses and it’s a neat lifestyle. But it’s not a way to retire to a life of leisure. We have all been land-banking for decades or even generations, and with real estate prices (and their related property taxes) far higher than they’ve ever been in most places- many folks will reach the obvious conclusion that now is a good time to step away from this exciting but exhausting lifestyle.

At a certain point- we get tired. We’re either tired of the hassles (many of which are invisible to most boarders and not barn drama related) or family changes mean we need to sell the farm. Land values are sky high- its the right time for many of us to downsize, and just as with the aging-out of baby boomer riders, many baby boomer barn owners are also the age when we realize we physically can’t, and emotionally don’t want to, continue to care for a lot of horses that we don’t own. This is a draining business, with a lot of risk, and huge startup costs.

And as barns close, new boarding situations are not rising up to replace them all. I had lunch with my barn sales rep a couple weeks ago, and the average price of a stall in a prefab/modular barn, like most of us use out west, is now about $13,000. Per stall. That’s no grading, no plans or permits, no water or electricity, and no furniture like mats, feeders, and waterers. Just the walls, roof, installation… if we make $100 per horse per month (and most of of us make far less) then it will take us almost 11 years just to pay for the structure your horse lives in. That’s why you see very few new boarding facilities… it makes no financial sense.

It’s been a grand adventure and most of us consider it an honor to have created nice stables and been witness to a lot of horse-related wonder that look place just outside our window. But as we retire from our ‘real jobs’ that subsidized boarded horses on our farms, the break-even model just doesn’t work any more for many barn owners.

And this next generation of equestrians who would like to buy our farms and keep them going often reach the same conclusion: you can’t do it. Paying ‘real money’ and having a mortgage for a farm can’t be supported by most boarding operations. (Boarding and training, yes, in many instances, but not pure boarding.) So these heart-made stables get developed or turned into private farms with deep-pocketed owners who often choose not to board.

This isn’t true for all barns in all areas, but it is a rising fact in many places. It saddens me that the mostly-affordable barns and horse-life options I grew up with are changing quickly, and I see far fewer options, with much higher price points, in the near future for many boarders who have long enjoyed their horses living at nice farms that did not have to support a mortgage. But I’m looking forward to my next phase of life, where I don’t have to worry about how to make ends meet for a group of horses I don’t own.

17 Likes