Quick X Ray? Now founder/laminitis/hoof care talk

[lenapesadie]

Very difficult with farriers. There is a podiatrist specialist vet in my area and this is his farrier. The farrier uses yet another vet for his personal horses as podiatrist vet doesn’t do generalist work. My vet practice (a third) does have another farrier they prefer for “special needs” horses but I’d need to haul out every time to use him. He comes from out of town to my vet practice two days a month or something. I have some flexibility with work but hauling out for a farrier appointment every 4 weeks during business hours isn’t doable. At least I have a lot of vet coverage I guess.

If horse doesn’t have bony changes indicating a poor prognosis, I presume I’ll need to coordinate another appointment with vet and farrier at same time. Which vet and which farrier tbd.

In the meantime my understanding is that I should be feeding this horse like it’s a sugar issue. Soaked hay, limited grazing, low NSC feed. He’s not fat by any measure, could probably stand to gain a few pounds, and was already eating a low NSC Senior grain. I can get most any type of hay, but I’ll have to test myself. Troublesome but doable.

I’m also going through the paddock he was pastured in. This horse is much more likely to browse than my other one and that paddock has various trees and shrubberies. I dunno if eating something he shouldn’t would present like laminitis but I want to cover my bases.

He’s still standing up and munching hay this am.

[JB]

@lenapesadie

There’s no impression material under it.

If he’s having some laminitis, then leaving the sole hanging, making the foot perimeter-weighted, could be making him that much more uncomfortable

I’m glad he’s at least doing a little better, that’s hopeful!

@lenapesadie

In the meantime my understanding is that I should be feeding this horse like it’s a sugar issue. Soaked hay, limited grazing, low NSC feed. He’s not fat by any measure, could probably stand to gain a few pounds, and was already eating a low NSC Senior grain. I can get most any type of hay, but I’ll have to test myself. Troublesome but doable.

For now, zero grass.

What Sr feed and how much?

[lenapesadie]

No grass now. He’s on complete stall rest.

Oof. So maybe it’s too much sole pressure or maybe it’s not enough sole pressure? Fun times. I think there is a thin pad between the bottom of shoe and the frog. Paper thin pad. He was in regular steels with a heel lift before. This horse doesn’t have as much sole concavity as we’d like but more than when we started. His feet do want to “splat” between shoeings, every 4 weeks.

TCS Gold. 6 lbs daily. Split into two meals. I’ve been adding approximately a lb of TC Gold Balancer as horse weight tapes at 1440. Maybe the Balancer was an unnecessary add, but was handy he was used to eating it as after Sunday I’ve cut the Senior to 2 lbs daily and increased the Balancer to (edited) 1.875 lbs daily, the label calls for 1-1.5 lbs for horses up to 1100 lbs. Vet recommended Purina Enrich as a low glycemic product but I have the TC on hand and I’m dubious the Enrich is a better product. I’ll have to double check that as well.

[JB]

At the rate you feed, the NSC difference is negligible. IMHO, TC is a much better line overall, with higher levels of trace minerals and amino acids.

The Gold balancer is higher NSC than the regular, but still, not likely making an impact

[lenapesadie]

I suppose I could use the TC 30 in the spirit of doing everything possible but the Gold line has made a big difference for this horse’s manure so I’m keen to stick with it. I’m worried he’ll lose condition but I’ll cross that bridge if I get to it.

Sugar wise, I can probably make the most difference with hay / grazing. He’s a hay dunker and seems to approve of the soaked hay at least.

[lenapesadie]

General update.

Firstly thank you to everyone that has chimed in. I’ve been totally freaked out and y’all’s comments have helped me feel not alone. I really appreciate each and everyone of you!

Second, I probably need to update the thread title.

Thirdly, I pushed horse’s am meds to about 9 am so 12+ hours since bedtime meds and observed him closely before dosing. Horse is very much improved. I didn’t see any weight shifting. He was in good spirits, he’s a friendly fellow and I’m glad to have him acting more like himself. He’s in a 15x30 stall and had manure piles scattered throughout indicating he moved around some. Further he didn’t drag his feet through the piles. Both of those are positive changes. He also felt chipper enough to try and avoid the Bute syringe. Rounding out my observations this am, he was weaving a bit when my other horse wandered to the far end of barnyard paddock. Our patient is a confirmed stall walker / weaver if confined alone. I haven’t seen any weaving / walking since he’s been on box rest until this am. While I don’t want him weaving, evidently he was comfortable enough to do so. I’ll take it.

Thanks again COTHers

[JB]

Good update!

Keep in mind that the bute is really fully in his system now, so a few hours pushing it out might not tell the full story. I don’t mean that to be a downer, just a little reality infusion. that said, getting the laminitic horse more comfortable IS the entire goal, so that healing can start happening.

[lenapesadie]

Totally understand. I’m just happy we were able to get his pan manageable so fast. Seems like I’ve heard one too many horror stories about horses being really uncomfortable for an extended period of time. I wasn’t about to let him be in pain for an extended period of time hoping it would get better. He’s too old to put through that.

[lenapesadie]

Vet came! This was his “regular” vet not the vet that came for emergency call on Sunday (same practice). Horse still has an elevated digital pulse, especially in the right front. We did take x rays, I think three views of each foot. The shoes weren’t an issue as far as the x rays. Vet taped a nail to his coronet band for a landmark. He has foundered, but “mild”. Very little rotation. She felt horse has a good prognosis.

She wants him to go in Easy Cloud boots for a while. She sells those so she measured him and is looking to see if they have his size in stock or if we need to order. Once we have boots in hand, shoes come off.

He’s going to stay on ace and Bute on box rest for another week. I’ll hit the barnyard paddock with the box blade to remove the grass that persist in growing in there so he can have a grass free turnout area.

There are some wild cherry trees in the paddock he was in on Sunday. Those will be removed prior to any horses going back there again. I had limbed them up so horses couldn’t reach leaves, but evidently we had a bumper crop of wild cherries bc they’re all over the ground. I dunno if that’s a factor but not taking chances.

[Warmblood1]

I can’t tell fully from the pictures, but the angles of the hooves seem off. It looks like a long toe and under run heel but I can’t see the hooves enough to be sure. Did the vet mention anything about the palmar angle when looking at xray? Adjusting the angles may help a lot in this case.

[JB]

That’s good news!

I agree with Warmblood1, but still have questions. We don’t know what the feet looked like prior to this very recent trim, or if this is the same farrier who’s been doing him for a while.

The long dished toe is concerning. While chronic low-grade laminitis can, technically cause this, making it a maintenance issue until the cause of the lami is resolved, I would expect any hoof care professional to see that and make comments about it

So, we need more info, before we can adequately make more comments on the feet

[lenapesadie]

The vet did make some recommendations for his trimming. The farrier has been discussing the ongoing issues with his feet leading to his recent changes in shoeing. The horse did have a major bout of severe lameness and cellulitis in the hind legs 2-3 months ago. I have had him tested, negative, for PPID. The vet is looking to set up a test for his circulation, I don’t recall the name but if there is an issue there we discussed a possible correlation with his chronic scratches (which lacking a better theory we are blaming the recent hind limb issue on).

He’s been given a full Nexium protocol to ward off ulcers. And if he was ever sound enough to ride, I’d have him fit for a saddle.

[lenapesadie]

Further updates. The vet re reviewed x rays once back in clinic with senior vet. They’ve decided that there isn’t any rotation. The vet called the farrier and they’ve revised the plan. Horse is going to stay in the current shoes but with the addition of a pad.

Thought it was nice of vet to call farrier on her own initiative.

[JB]

@lenapesadie

e has foundered, but “mild”. Very little rotation.

@lenapesadie

They’ve decided that there isn’t any rotation.

Do you on what basis the original “mild rotation” determination was made?

Are you able to post the xrays? I’m really curious to see how the inside looks, based on what we see on the outside

[lenapesadie]

That’s why I included the shrug emoji. I’m not sure. Waiting on callback from vet. Todays info has all been second hand, from vet office receptionist and from farrier so there’s a possibility of miscommunication.

ETA the vet did mention my not level barn floor was an issue and on one view there is a nail obscuring the bottom tip of coffin bone

Working on downloading the x ray files

[lenapesadie]

07272022_11_27_56.zip (1.8 MB)

[lenapesadie]

I’m not sure if that’s gonna work. I can try taking screenshots of the x rays

[JB]

Dang, those are some thin soles! There is some sinking going on, so technically he is foundered, just not rotated

Until the leverage on those toes is resolved, progress isn’t likely

[lenapesadie]

I think that’s why vet was calling farrier we need these toes trimmed back

[lenapesadie]

Just got off phone with vet. Evidently horsie’s x rays have been passed around the practice vets for re review and measurements. Vet says when she measures it does look like rotation. We’d already discussed the sinking. His prognosis is more we’ll see now. Though she thinks that since we are managing his pain well already that’s a good start.

Vet has also decided she’d rather have the horse in the boots she has experience with than his current shoes. She likes the shoes from a theoretical standpoint but with no experience with them she feels she would prefer him in the boots. A thought I had is with the boots it will be easier to mark the sole / frog junction thingy @JB mentioned in follow up x rays since we could take the boots off. And I need that I guess to help make sure his toe gets backed up enough pronto.

The boots are on order. I’m supposed to call clinic tomorrow for an eta