Quirky horse suddenly afraid to be caught.

[CHT]

I have had this horse since the end of March. She is 10, and well trained. She is, however quite quirky, and when she came, she had some anxiety (used to gnash her teeth together when tied in the barn). Things are much improved, but still a quirky mare and, unfortunately I hadn’t gotten around to resolving her quirk about haltering. She has shown me she doesn’t like me standing beside her to halter, and does not like me passing the crown behind her ears (with buckle undone). Instead, she likes it if I stand in front of her and flip the buckled crown over her ears. Bridling is fine. She came with her ears completely shaved and her whiskers completely shaved, so I thought it might be related. She is not a fan of an ear bonnet, and HATED the fly mask (so I stopped using it).

She normally comes when I go to get her. Never had a trouble catching her. I am the only one that catches her or feeds her (she lives on my property).

Today I made two mistakes when putting her and her friends out on pasture: 1) I let the other horse I was leading loose first and she trotted off to the far end (over a hill). When I then went to take my mares halter off, she twisted her head to get out of it quicker . 2) When I went to catch her a few hours later, I forgot to halter her, “her way”, and instead flipped the crown behind her ears while standing beside her. Well, she took off.

It took close to four hours to catch her after that. For about 2 of those hours I just walked or stood while she walked or trotted small circles around me. Keep in mind she was in a 3+ acre pasture…she never ran to the other end, or really worried about being with the other 2 mares, she just circled (clockwise) around me incessantly. After about 1.25 hours, my husband helped take the other two mares out, but my mare didn’t seem to care too much. Just kept trotting or walking circles around me. She let me touch her face a few times, and I was able to grab her fly sheet neck twice, but she was literally shaking when I tried to hold her that way, so I let her go rather than even try to halter her.

We tried a bucket of pellets, and she took a few bites, but was seemingly scared to put her head down. No idea why she was so scared though. We never chased her.

So then we built a small pen just out the gate, and opened the gate so she was in a smaller pen. The pen was a small pentagon, with 10 foot sides. I tried going in to catch her, but her quiet circles we saw in the larger pasture, were replaced with ears pinned and air bites. I tried bringing her Shetland pony friend over to see if that helped, but it did not. She did however get upset when I left.

Seemingly she didn’t want to be caught, but she also didn’t want me to leave (my husband was with her).

So we then made the pen a smaller diamond shape, and I fed her grass. This helped and I was able to rub her face and then halter her from outside the pen. When I finally did try to put the halter on, she held her head still and was her normal self… It then took me another while to get the lead rope attached, but again from outside the pen. When I led her out, and back into the pasture, She was shaking (hind end only), and nervous. She led well to the barn once my husband took the catch pen down, and I put her in her stall for water and a break.

She was easy to unhalter and halter in the stall. I then led her around a bit outside, and we loaded and unloaded her from the trailer (I had planned to haul to a community arena, so we had it hooked up) and took her for grass before putting her in her dirt paddock near the barn with her warmblood friend. A bit later I took her grass, which she took over the gate.

Just now, while I was feeding afternoon hay, I went (no halter) to give her more cookies/grass, and she again didn’t want me to touch her and started her circling again (but she would pass within a meter of me). I got her to take grass over the fence and then left her.

She normally comes in at night (9pm), but not sure how that is going to go. She is out by herself from 4pm-9pm, and her warmblood friend goes out from 9pm to 4pm.

Things that may be of note: 1) She is in heat, and when she “winks” her entire haunches drop and tuck. I didn’t have any problems the last time she was in heat though. 2) This was day 3 on pasture with her normal turn out buddy and a big draft cross. She seems to both fight with, and want to hang out with the draft mare.

Any advice on what may have happened and how I can fix this issue? I don’t think leaving her halter on will help. She is a strange mare, and her reactions when things aren’t to her liking tend to be extreme…I think she is genuinely a sensitive mare (only likes soft brushes/touch). Lovely to ride though.

[AKB]

Can you go out and catch her multiple times per day? Maybe bring a lead line to wrap around her neck and don’t halter her. Feed her some cookies, pat her, then release her. Then, progress to giving cookies, putting on the halter, giving more cookies, and removing the halter.

[RedHorses]

I have a ten year old horse who has always been a bit dramatic about things. Nothing was a little problem with him, it was meltdown or nothing. The interesting thing is that it was entirely possible to go from meltdown to nothing in a minute or two, and then continue doing whatever. He did get better, but has always had that drama queen streak.

In March I started giving him magnesium, not because I thought it would help, but because I couldn’t think of anything else to try when he was still, weeks later, eyeballing the new piece of equipment in the corner of the arena. And by eyeballing I mean bulging away, slowing down, scooting past, leaping sideways away from it, cutting in on a circle half the arena away, etc.

Well, it helped. I noticed improvements in that he fixated less on the equipment or anything else that bothered him. I discovered I was giving him 1/4 of the recommended starting amount, and there was improvement. I increased to the recommended maintenance dose and he is so much less anxious about things than before. I wish I had tried this year’s ago for his sake.

It might be worth a try with your mare. I used Quiessence the first time, then bought a different brand of straight magnesium (Pureform).

I noticed the first signs of change in a week, doubted my judgement and waited for more evidence. My vet said that when it works it keeps on working - which makes perfect sense if it is a deficiency.

[J-Lu]

Wow, she sounds like an extreeeeeemely insecure mare.

I don’t know exactly what to do without seeing this, but I’d try the following. First, I’d suggest that there are consequences to not being caught. If she’s caught to bring in to feed and doesn’t want to be caught - she can stay out and not get fed. I’d bring the bucket to let her understand that being caught = feeding. She will get the connection quickly if she’s smart. Second, I’d make being caught a great thing. Does she like being groomed? Catch her and groom her, even if you aren’t riding. Or catch her and hand graze her. Make her associate being caught with good things and comfort. Third, it sounds like she doesn’t respect you so much as her herd leader, and she’s insecure because she doesn’t have a herd leader. This isn’t uncommon with very insecure horses. I’d do ground work with her to let her learn that a) she can face things and they aren’t going to kill her because ground work will give her the tools to cope b) she can think her way through things when the going seems rough (to her - you’ll never know why she thinks the going is rough) and c) you won’t let her down and are her protective force if she listens to you. That’s not affection, it’s being boss mare. Affection can come afterwords and if she likes it.

Depending on how she was raised, it’s not uncommon for many horses to have difficulty socializing with other horses and taking cues from handlers. It can also happen even if she was raised in the perfect environment but she has a quirky personality. I think she has to learn from your body language and whether you’re present or walk away what is expected of her when you try to catch her, and what the consequences are if she chooses not to be caught.

Truth be told, I always go catch my horses with carrots. It’s immediate gratification for walking/trotting/cantering to me. And then I groom well (my horses have enjoyed grooming and have been highly interactive) and make the whole experience good for them. My current gelding is extremely quirky and extremely smart, learning groundwork from a trainer outside my discipline saved the day (he also trained this horse, because despite a good upbringing and professional, quality starting, he was a hot, fear-driven mess as a 4 year-old).

Good luck with your gal!

[retiredhorse]

I don’t have horses at home, so if I had one that was hard to catch, I would leave a leather halter on him to make it easier for barn staff (one notable time, a horse was being extremely difficult to catch, so he got left outside on his own overnight. The next day, he came in willingly, and they never had a problem with him since. Not sure that would work for you). I’m not sure why you wouldn’t try this before writing it off? Unless you think she’ll get it off or get caught in it or something like that. You may still have to practice catching her, but with one less step of haltering – and practice haltering at a different time.

If she’s that weird about haltering… I would check eye sight, maybe her poll/neck is out, or inside her ears? Could be she was ear-twitched in the past (and you standing next to her reminds her of that) or hated ear plugs. Shaking, nervousness, and being very sensitive could be signs of other health issues? Maybe exacerbated by being in heat?

Possibly what happened was she learned she could get away from you, and doesn’t have to be haltered/caught on your terms, even if she’s having other issues. This kind of change can make a horse nervous, if they’re unsure what to do next, like horses that spook undersaddle when rider doesn’t have their full attention. Maybe she tweaked something or something spooked her while getting away and she has associated that with getting caught. Could be your body language also changed, if you got worried or frustrated or unsure also. If she’s air biting at you and passing 1m away, be careful you don’t get kicked. Another (remote) possibility, if she’s been fine to catch, is that this is a one-time thing and she may be ok tomorrow, if you’re ok too…

If not, have you tried putting lead rope over her neck first – though if you do it close to her ears, she may react the same way she does with the halter. Or approaching her from the other side? I would not grab a horse’s blanket to catch them – but what if you just rubbed her neck or face, without the intention of catching her? If you don’t have a halter in hand, can you go up to her and will she stand quietly? What happens if you turn and leave, will she follow you? I don’t generally hand feed treats, but for catching issues, bribery sometimes works (treat instead of grain in a bucket, so you don’t have to try to get a halter on while dealing with a bucket also), just be careful you don’t reward her going away from you (horse snatches treat and still runs away).

[CHT]

@retiredhorse I assume they would have had to twitch her or something to shave out her ears and clip all her whiskers (including eye), when they sold her. This was also my assumption with the haltering. As her preferred way is actually easier, I didn’t bother to work on it. My bad. I don’t want to leave the halter on, as haltering her in the end wasn’t an issue, and I worry about turning out with a halter.

@J-Lu you are reading a lot into this that isn’t there. She has good ground manners and isn’t spooky to lead. I have hand walked her through puddles and all over the property. She wanted to be with me in the pasture, she just didn’t want to be caught…but she didn’t want to leave either, even though she could have. She typically comes to the gate when she sees me. This is very new behaviour. I obviously triggered something.

There were carrots involved, but she isn’t overly food motivated.

@AKB that will be the plan now. I do sometimes catch her just to take her for grass, and often just visit with her (and my other mare), but she has always been very keen for attention. She still seems keen for attention, just something holding her back.

@RedHorses I will look into that, thanks. May as well!

[retiredhorse]

Can you touch her ears? I’m only asking because if she doesn’t like them touched and has associated that with being caught/haltered (as in, did your hand brush her ear when she pulled away or took off), then that’s another factor to either work on or avoid completely (which is difficult when haltering). If she twists away from you/the halter again, when you initially let her loose, that could be something to work on too.

I can see where J-Lu is coming from re insecurity, in that a secure/self-confident horse or horse that has confidence in its handler would not get unsettled so easily. In h/j-land, where groundwork is often not a priority, it’s very possible to have a horse that is good to ride, not spooky and easy to lead, be somewhat of a mess when loose (and I mean loose, not attached to a lead rope – they learn when they HAVE to behave and when they don’t, vs horses that respect and follow the human at ALL times, even unattached via leadrope, lunge line or bridle).Definitely only work on this when you have alllll the time in the world.

[merrygoround]

I have been in situations where every other horse was brought in. No catch would then be willing to come in.

But have also known one who would accept a carrot in the paddock when I was Rx another horse for 3 days in a row, and the next day wouldn’t even accept a free carrot. He was always an odd one.

[CHT]

I can touch her ears. She is fine with me touching her today, but pinning her ears and shaking her head at the halter (even if hanging on her gate). I didn’t try catching her today (busy with lessons and then a stray dog), but spent moments here and there with her, and by afternoon feed she was back to coming to me and nickering when she saw me, following me around and letting me rub her face/ears.

I think I am going to get the vet out. There is something going on with her back end. I assumed it was something to do with her being in heat, but I have had lots of mares, and never seen this: it is like she is flinching behind…like something is touching her hind legs. A bit of a tipping of her pelvis? She gets a concerned look when it happens. She also pees more often than any other horse I have spent time with. I know UTIs are rare in horses, but maybe? I know in people UTIs can change a person’s mental state.

[retiredhorse]

UTIs are THE WORST. Never had a horse with one, though. I think the vet is a good idea, especially since it sounds like a sudden behavioral change (not feeling well, or intense pain or infection can certainly do that!). I’d maybe ask about her head/eyes/poll/teeth too, just in case.

[WildLittleWren]

I agree about getting the vet out. Let us know what you find out!

[SonnysMom]

How about teaching her to lead with a neck collar and leave that on? Many of the high dollar broodmares go out in leather ones. One farm I retired my horse at had all of her horses with neck collars. Her personal horses were all taught to tie and lead with them. Retired horse just to lead. If they needed to be tied she used their halters.
She would trail ride with the neck collar on and it was safer to tie them with the neck collar so the horses could eat while she ate her lunch. It may be less stressful for everyone if you use a leather neck collar. It still requires some training but it may not trigger her issues.

Seeing the vet is still a good idea.

[Hopeless]

@CHT

@J-Lu you are reading a lot into this that isn’t there. She has good ground manners and isn’t spooky to lead. I have hand walked her through puddles and all over the property. She wanted to be with me in the pasture, she just didn’t want to be caught…but she didn’t want to leave either, even though she could have. She typically comes to the gate when she sees me. This is very new behavior. I obviously triggered something.

There were carrots involved, but she isn’t overly food motivated.

Ground work is is not just ground manners. Ground work is a lot more than leading.

[StormyDay]

@SonnysMom

How about teaching her to lead with a neck collar and leave that on? Many of the high dollar broodmares go out in leather ones. One farm I retired my horse at had all of her horses with neck collars. Her personal horses were all taught to tie and lead with them. Retired horse just to lead. If they needed to be tied she used their halters.
She would trail ride with the neck collar on and it was safer to tie them with the neck collar so the horses could eat while she ate her lunch. It may be less stressful for everyone if you use a leather neck collar. It still requires some training but it may not trigger her issues.

Seeing the vet is still a good idea.

What I was going to say too. If she leads well you can just use a neck collar or even make one from a lead rope so you can put it on way down by her withers and then tighten it up.
sometimes it’s just not worth fighting. As she gains confidence I think this problem will fade away.

[CHT]

Last night I opened the gate, she came over, I held the halter out, she put her nose in, I flipped it over her ears and did up the snap. Zero issues. Back to normal horse. Coincidentally I didn’t see her twitching hind end at all last night.

I don’t think a neck collar would help in a real way. I mean I could have held her by her neck cover, but she was shaking (so I let go). This wasn’t a horse not wanting to be caught as she stayed with me even in the large pasture (unlike your typical can’t catch me horse that runs to the far end). I want to figure out, and resolve, why she was suddenly so afraid.

[retiredhorse]

Yeah, I would be calling vet too for that kind of on-off behavior, especially when you know it’s weird for the horse and not them boundary-pushing or needing more training. The fear/panic/run away/stress behaviors due to pain or discomfort is not uncommon. I wonder if she kind of tied up? I know it’s more that they can’t move, but the shaking makes me wonder if she had some sort of muscle/nerve cramp and was going in circles to try to run away or alleviate it (around you because you’re a source of comfort/security, but your presence didn’t suddenly made this particular issue go away, so she’s trying to get away from that and not you), or got stung by something that really hurt (though you’d probably see some swelling?). Or like you suspect, it could be tied to her reproductive system.

Good luck, hope you find out what caused this and a way to prevent it!

[chai]

CHT, you have been given some excellent suggestions and I second the Magnesium recommendation. I have a large draftie, and he is not fond of having his ears accidently smushed when reaching up to get the crownpiece over his poll. So I taught him to drop his head and nose down into the halter. I hold it in front of him with the crown piece open and he just drops his nose into it. He kind of loves the game and I give him a sugar cube each time, so there is a positive reward for his good behavior.
When I had my horses at home, I taught them all to come to a whistle I can do with two fingers and my teeth. Years after I no longer had my farm, my draft horse will still come to that whistle. It made my life so much easier when I had 8 horses to bring in.
Best of luck with your mare. You and your husband sound like the perfect, patient home for this girl and I am sure she will come around.

[no.stirrups]

Poor girl! OP, it sounds to me very much like she has some PTSD from an experience that happened before you got her. It sounds like you are handling it really well by not letting her off the hook, but also being willing to do things in a way that makes her most comfortable. As trust grows, the behaviors will lessen. There is no time line for resolving things like this.

[CHT]

She is on a supplement that it seems does contain magnesium: “Mare Support”, and I did notice she was more relaxed about being groomed after starting it, although the weather also improved (warmed up), and I found softer brushes, so not 100% sure that was the fix, but I am planning to add additional magnesium to her diet as advised. (when I got her she would clack her teeth together nearly continuously when she was tied in the barn, and shake her head at me when I groomed her, she doesn’t do that anymore- she is also no longer girthy)

I am also trying bute for a few days (assuming I can keep catching her), and see if that helps.

Today was a holiday, so will call the vet clinic tomorrow. The clinic I use has a very good repo vet that I plan to try to get, although I imagine he is quite busy this time of year.

I rode her today, and she seemed her normal self to ride, but she is still not wanting to be haltered (although nickers and comes to the gate when she sees me, and will follow me around her paddock). I also think the same twitchy hind end thing I am seeing is also why she has days when she stalls out when ridden…I had just assumed it was an issue with miscommunication.

[CHT]

I took maresy to the repo vet today. No serious health issues, but he feels confident she has painful ovulations and the ultrasound showed she had double ovulated on the right side, which he says can be extra painful.

I am trying Regumate for 30 days, and if that works, I am considering having her ovaries removed, as her other two high anxiety reactions also happened in her previous heat cycles.

She was definitely very stressed today, but for all her wrinkly eyes, rolled eyes, and air biting, she keeps her feet in place and seems to be really trying to be good, however she is obviously uncomfortable in waves.

He also suggested trying Zylkene, but I am not sure I want to try two things at the same time.

If the Regumate does not work, I will try take her to a soundness specialist.