Racehorses started as 2/3 yo vs other disciplines?

A few posters have said that thoroughbreds mature sooner than other breeds. I have never seen that proven. Is that an actual fact or just anecdotal?

As for the original question: I have read in the past that the main issues with starting them young aren’t the actual work, but rather that horses in training tend to be stall/small pen kept, and that is not the best for young horses (or any really) and does negatively affect their development, particularly the feet.

Another thing to note for this topic, is thoroughbreds are usually started by very light riders, and go in relatively straight lines/gentle arcs with their natural way of going supported. This differs greatly from other disciplines, where are more average size/weight rider is usually the one starting them, and the horses are asked to work in smaller spaces and change their natural way of going.

I don’t think evidence of horses performing well at a young age is proof that starting them young is a good thing: rather it would be interesting to see statistics on horses performing well in old age and what age (and level or work) they did at a young age.

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The number of TBs that are galloped as fast as they can go–even once!–before the age of 2 is miniscule. They’re the youngest ones pointed toward the 2yo sales–and they’re “pushed” with moderation because a horse that isn’t sound doesn’t sell. Nobody is drilling those horses, much less breezing them weekly. The first time they are asked to run at maximum speed is on the day of the breeze show. That’s once, and most aren’t asked to do that again for several months (the reasons for that being mostly mental and not physical.)

I would disagree about the joint stress being placed on a young horse being shown in the A circuit hunters (We can also disagree about whether or not a 3’6’ course is “low”). It takes a lot of jumps to get a horse ready to win–and a lot of classes to win the year-end awards.

Fwiw, our young TBs follow a pretty usual schedule for horses that are being pointed toward a racing career and it doesn’t involve throwing a saddle on them when they’re 1 and 1/2 and racing them out to the track. For anyone who’s interested it looks like this:

October: (of their yearling year) ship to training center and start ground work: bridling, saddling, longlining, etc. Turned out overnight or in the afternoons (weather dependent).
November: rider sitting on horse in stall, then walking in barn aisle, then trail riding, then basic walk, then walk/trot arena work. Turnout
December: trotting on the track building muscle, going in groups. Mid-month, start first few slow gallops (in groups) Turnout after
Mid-December to Feb 1st (of 2yo year) Turned out to grow up and process what they’ve learned.
February: start back up and relearn earlier lessons, then trotting and light galloping on the track. Turnout after
March: building up the amount of trotting and galloping. Turnout
April: working toward first “baby breeze” which will be 1/8 of a mile and consist of the rider not pushing–but not holding the horse back either. (Yes, they do want to run–especially in company!) Turnout
May: 2yo is now “farm fit” and has had a couple of baby breezes. If there have been no setbacks, it’s time to ship to the track.

The process is done in stages. Slow, comfortable stages. And if at any point the horse says stop, the training stops–or goes back to something easier.

Snaffle, since you seem incapable of believing that any racehorse owner could possibly put their horses’ welfare first, I will put it in financial terms which maybe you will understand: a broken racehorse is worthless to its owner. The meticulous care that racehorses–including young ones–receive puts most horse owners to shame.

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I agree with this, except I think most of a horse’s work ethic is innate, he’s mostly born with it or not, kind of like a good walk. But just like a good walk, you can screw up a good work ethic (you just can’t make a really bad one good). BUT there are a lot of horses who are on the fence about whether they want to be a player, and it is a lot easier to help them choose the right side of the fence if they are an ungainly willing-to-give-it-a-try 2 or 3 year old versus a big well balanced 4 year old who knows exactly where to put his feet to work against you if he so chooses. Also if you do get the ones with a lousy work ethic, there are a myriad of ways said 4 year old can kill you faster than his 2 or 3 year old self could have finished you off!

I believe the value in starting a horse younger is that up until about 3ish they are primed to accept new experiences with more curiosity than fear (my personal thought is this ties into their “protected status” role in the herd up until this time, from an evolutionary perspective) and from 3 on forward, that willingness to try something new decreases because - again from an evolutionary perspective - the horse kicked out of his band doesn’t last long if they are still in the “hey what’s this? Good or bad thing?” stage of learning.

Still, this approach still leaves plenty of room for multiple approaches from those who start a career early to people who are determined to wait until every last joint space has closed. You can “start” them at 2, but you don’t have to pound them or overwork them at 2… or 3 or even 4 if that floats your boat. You CAN use that time to start them down the path of understanding that we humans ask a lot of strange, seemingly scary, stupid and otherwise pointless things (from their perspective), but they also have a long history, starting in their learning years, knowing that it won’t hurt them or scare them AND they have a lot of practice learning new things.

And while TBs have a history of being started young, I think the new reality of some babies being pushed for jaw dropping workouts at the two year old sales probably isn’t the best thing that ever happened to the sport. Fortunately I think (hope) that is still a minority of horses, and most are moving through earlier sales and doing the baby wibbly wobbly canters at that stage. Because OMG drunken 2 year olds cantering is the best part of late winter/early spring. <-- LaurieB I didn’t see your last post until after I posted, good to know my thoughts were correct

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You are correct, they should not be worked weekly. They should be worked every 4 days.

Anyone who cares to read real science and real studies - these are the 2 most comprehensive studies ever done, and the Equine Injury Database is ongoing - should ignore the “feelings” of those who have not bothered to educate themselves. The Equine Injury Database has over 10 years of data. Start with the most recent reports, since they are the most relevant. Don’t take my word on it, read it yourself.

http://www.jockeyclub.com/default.asp?section=Advocacy&area=10

Then google Nunamaker’s shin study, “On Bucked Shins,” and google Fisher’s follow up training protocol. This is real information based on real evidence, not some show hunter person’s pearl clutching feelings.

https://thehorse.com/151784/training-young-athletes/

As conditioners of athletes, anyone who is riding and training horses, especially young horses, has an ethical obligation to understand progressive loading and training adaptation. And if you don’t, you are just making yourself look silly by yammering away with little anecdotes.

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I’ve never understood why people use Germans/Europeans as an argument against starting racehorses as long yearlings/two year olds.

People do realize that German and European thoroughbred racehorses are started in the exact same manner as US racehorses, right??? Euro racehorses also get backed as long yearlings and begin adding speed early in their two year old year. They also have plenty of two year old races.

This is just anecdotal, but I don’t think TBs mature faster than WBs. I think the biggest differences are size and purpose. A bigger, heavier long yearling is going to be at more risk of doing damage working at a young age. Dressage and jumping in their ultimate form don’t require increased bone density beyond normal limits to stay sound; most of the injuries that plague dressage and jumping horses are soft tissue. Also, the manner in which the WB is going to be ridden is totally different. Dressage and jumping involve a normal-sized rider using their seat and asking the horse to perform intricate movements that involve the later-maturing upper body. A baby racehorse is pretty much going as they please with a generally light rider interfering as little as possible. A lot of savvy breaking farms put a “dressage” and/or “jumping” foundation in their babies, but even that isn’t truly dressage or jumping-- it usually just entails asking for more yielding to the aids or popping over little stuff for mental stimulation.

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I love LaurieB’s response here.

The reason why we train young TBs the way we do has been explained here. The closure of growth plates throughout the body isn’t that much different between TBs and non TBs, but the maturity of the nervous system and muscle development is much different. A young TB tends to be much more coordinated than non TB breeds (WBs), and more muscle on them. This allows them to be able to be trained and worked earlier in life than many other breeds. This is what the “culling system” and directed breeding FOR racing has done for TBs, and continues to do for TBs. If the identification of “quality” of horses is not important, directed breeding in attempts to produce quality becomes unimportant, then these hard questions do not need to be asked of horses. We can just breed backyard horses who have nice colours and no particular talent, if we choose. IF, however, we watch the exquisite rare jewels that are brilliant athletes, from Secretariat to Winx and others, and appreciate that quality, it is necessary to test them, prepare them, try them at high level competition to identify quality, and cull the breeding population.

There is always risk involved in starting, training and working young horses, TBs and non TBs. It is not “risk free” to do so. It is also not “risk free” to allow bones and joint surfaces to mature without doing the remodelling training. And even in the best of training barns, with the best of trainers, riders and staff, accidents and injuries still happen. One equine sport discipline squawks and points fingers at another in criticism. Horses get hurt. Football players get hurt too, sometimes when they are 15 years old, blow a knee out, and are unsound for the rest of their lives, their dream of being a superstar athlete dashed. When we ask hard questions of young athletes, sometimes dreams are dashed, even with the best of care and intentions. But Wayne Gretsky didn’t wait until he was 20 to learn to skate. Risks are accepted if you want a shot at upper level competition. The ability of youth to heal and develop to withstand the pressure of heavy competition is well documented. Also, the “risk taking” acceptance of high level competition of youth is much higher than in older age. If you don’t have high level aspirations for yourself or your horse, it is not necessary to begin to ready yourself or your horse for such competition early in life.

What always amazes me is the assumption that the condition of an older OTTB MUST have something to do with his race career. Perhaps it does. Perhaps it also has something to do with it’s care, training and riding SINCE his racing career, untalented unbalanced riders and incorrect training from the non-racing disciplines

Also, the question of all the terminally unsound WBs, who were left until they were “mature” before beginning work, who don’t have the “excuse” that they were racehorses at some time in their lives, and may have been owned and/or trained by someone who was not concerned with their long term best interests and soundness?

“Money” always comes into the conversation when talking about pushing young horses in early training. Horses eat money, so no matter the discipline, it always should come into the conversation. The goal of race training is to have a competitive race horse, capable of earning money while racing. Keeping them sound, happy, alive and competitive for as long as possible is necessary to allow them to earn money, and prove their quality, and the quality of their family and genetics. The goal is not to hurt them, or kill them. It’s not bullfighting.

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I think it’s disingenuous at best to blame racing on an 18 yo horse being “crippled with arthritis.” There are plenty of non-TBs that end up that way.

To say those in the racing industry don’t care about the horses after the stop racing is just not true. A friend of mine does the charity gallops at Emerald Downs every year with her horse. His former connections came last year and they all were over the moon to see him again. His former jockey teared up a bit.

It it was a pretty emotional meet up.

When I was looking into the history of my first OTTB everyone from the track employees and his breeder were thrilled to hear from me. You know who did a complete disservice to the horse? The people I got him from. The non-racing related people. Do you know who didn’t give a damn about him? The people I got him from.

We all get you don’t like the race industry. However, your posts are never fact based.

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List of major Group stakes races in Germany:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o…at_horse_races

Clearly they are handling their TBs just like their WBs. :lol: Never mind those 16 blacktype races for solely 2 & 3 y/os.

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@NancyM if I could like your post more times I would. :yes:

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The stress on the bodies of racing TBs is almost unique, with only upper level open jumpers and eventers coming close. Dressage WBs can’t hold a candle to racing TBs and the forces their bodies endure.

So maybe it doesn’t matter if they start their horses later, since they won’t be subject to the rigorous training and competition that racing TBs are. They can get away with it since they don’t need the skeletal strength of a race horse.

Same here. Great post Nancy M! I would have said it myself if I could have said it as well.

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I love this post. It is fact based and reflects a lot of people I know from racing as opposed to people who always seem to find their way into snaffles’ posts.

But the difference is that the people I know don’t see anything strange or even noteworthy of keeping a horse in retirement board for 20 years because he won some races for you way back when or paying for retraining because a slow horse in your barn is just “cool” and you want the best home possible or taking chips out before you retire them so they are more attractive to the next home or just stopping race training because they can’t stay sound and no one wants to see the horse ruined.

I know people who have done all of these things in the last year, some well known and most not, and it’s just not that big a deal. But someone does the wrong thing and we all get scolded.

It gets really tiresome some times.

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I wouldn’t have my amazing mare if it wasn’t for the racing industry.

We wouldn’t have the advancements in vet care we do if it wasn’t for the racing industry.

We wouldn’t have a lot.

Really what what does any other horse sport contribute to a particular breed or veterinary technology?

So thank you Pronzini and everyone else for all you do.

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I’m in agreement - I know I have a relatively small sample size for this but back in the CANTER days I saw quite a number of horses who came to us at around 5-6-7, who definitely kept growing - some of them stayed with us a year, so we had the measurements to back it up.

That said, I super appreciate the links and quotes Palm Beach has put up - I already knew horses started earlier and racing at two had lower overall injury rates and much lower incidence of catastrophic breakdown, but I didn’t know about all the established research on the subject so that’s cool :slight_smile:

Someone else mentioned the type of work involved - I do think the type of work race training provides is much more in line with what horses are naturally built to do, vs., say, reining training or jumping. While the stresses of top speed are massive, most of the training is in straight lines, curves are quite wide/generous, and the fitness levels are built in a logical progression. They are not asked to hold themselves in unnatural positions or put a lot of twist/lateral pressure on their bodies.

I think many of the issues with unsound racehorses and ex racehorses is far more to do with individual treatment than the general “early starting” aspect of training. A trainer who injects horses to keep them running or jumping or sliding, causing their joints to get more damaged over time, that person has done far more to damage a horse than the person who started the horse at 2. (and I knew of a lot of people doing that all over the place. I even did for a while, with my guy and his foot issues)

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Great comments. Riders and trainers really need to make an effort to understand anatomy and physiology, as well as basic concepts of progressive loading and training adaptation. There are times when it’s beneficial to monitor a physical condition and keep the horse in some sort of work, and there are times when you need to back off or completely stop work.

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I’m eternally grateful for the advancements in veterinary medicine that the money a$$ociated with racing has bought to the table, but I’m not going to sell short the advances bought to us by the insane amount of money involved in international level jumpers/dressage and even hunters.

Of course some of that isn’t all that wonderful. I’m not entirely certain the racing industry would have stumbled on to osphos if it hadn’t been for a compelling need to keep the older, arthritic show horses comfortable and their owners who could pay for it…

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If its worth anything, weve always backed our WB stock at 2.5 years. We lean across, then throw a leg over. THey follow a known gelding to learn trot, then canter. Then we turn them out for winter.

In 30 years:

One was too tough for me to back, so the race exercise rider did it.
Another got to 5, track guys tried and failed, but I got on no worries.

Baby horses will do what’s best for them.

And a 3-foot fence is less than half the impact any horse Ive seen play

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Insane money is seven figures for a yearling and $75 million for a stallion.

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My thought when I read this was insane $$ is what’s spent on Keeneland September… all books. That’s a ton of $.

I’m familiar with the prices. Nevertheless even research institutions recognize that while TB racing has an enormous impact, that impact is not as exclusive as it once was. This makes sense if you look at what more and more people are willing to pay for their pets when it comes to vet care. Not surprisingly this extends to those horses in a mere 6 to 7 figure price range and an earnings potential that is largely expected to be a negative number.

But I think the prize for insane was the reported million dollars spent on Oui in the 80’s. Not a TB. Not a sport horse. Not even a riding horse. Just a pretty halter Arab mare who’s owners never even had the dream she’d make back any of her purchase price.

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