No, two different judges. The second comment was a DT article, not sure about the first (gettin’ old, memories, ah, memories, LOL)
Was it Cindy Sydnor? https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/dressage/9900-go-into-debt-for-a-horse/page6
Here is the link to the article…apparently a DT article where Cindy Sydnor suggested going into debt for a horse
- Take out a loan. People take out loans for cars. Most people drive cars costing $25,000 to $30,000. Nobody thinks anything of that. My advice is to drive a cheaper car and own a better horse. You can get a very good horse for between $20,000 and $50,000.
It was behind a paywall that is copied here.
https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/dressage/9900-go-into-debt-for-a-horse?p=1307496#post1307496
Disclaimer…I drive an 18 year old car that I paid $3k for.
I’d be interested to see the above referenced article re: cattle horses, because that one I don’t remember.
I remember the article and the subsequent discussion on the old board, I miss those, they got quite heated and some of the USDF board members or their spouses joined in to pounce on us AA’s.
Yeah, there was a lot of input that “that’s not what she meant!!” The wording is pretty unambiguous to me. It’s EXACTLY what she meant.
I wish I could remember where the “chasing cattle” comment came from. I know WHO said it, but I can’t remember where I read it. Heck, it could even have been in a discussion on COTH rather than in an article.
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I think her comment was about horses whose “neck came out from between their knees”. Then in the LONG discussion, there was a lot of caustic remarks made about horses not bred for dressage, and about people who insist that dressage is about “training”, and for any horse. I’m sure somewhere in that thread, you will find comments about horses who should be chasing cattle and pulling carts and such, but it wasn’t in that specific article… The thread got pretty ugly.
I do remember that article - and her suggestion that if you spend $20k to $30k on a car, why not spend that on a horse? A decent horse can be purchased for $20k - $50k. I went back to the article, and that was the price range quoted, along with the suggestion that we borrow money to buy such a horse. The article never went on to point out we’d also have an ongoing training bill that was the equivalent of a house payment - but I am sure that would be the next step to consider. After all, if you can pay $800/month for rent or a mortgage, why not for training?
Well, that is just out of touch with reality. My car (purchased used) did cost more then my horse, but I NEED my car for work - I travel for my job. A horse just costs more and more money - a car is part of my tools of my trade. It is ridiculous to suggest I spend as much (or MORE) on a horse as I did on my work vehicle. And to suggest someone goes into DEBT for a horse? For something that gets injured and becomes worth nothing!?! I do know a few people who did this, and in once case, the debt financed horse is lame and retired, the other is lame, but maybe not yet retired.
It was a rather inflammatory article, and I have to admit, after you all reminded me of it, then I see the latest DT article that bothers me so much - I will not bother renewing my subscription.
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I rarely post (but have been on here forever). I just wanted to chime in to applaud MysticOak’s last post. It’s strange (and completely contrary to the “finance a horse” article), but I didn’t do nearly as well, generally speaking, with my mid-five figure horses as I have done with my under $11k horses - at several levels. In fact, my best horse to date - although my current $11k and under horse is hot on his heels - was $5k and he rocked it out at third and fourth. Best I can guess from this anecdotal evidence is that I’m just not meant for those big movers; rather, I’ve gotten pretty good at making average movers do better. And, I’ll take that. 
In fact, my current horse is downhill and trots like a pony at liberty, but has an 8-9 trot (and an equally nice passage - when he’s really through) when he is put together and ridden correctly. He often gets 7s and 8s on gaits. Next year, at least once, I’m going to trot around on the buckle outside the ring with his sad, shuffle trot, pick him up, and go in with the 8 trot. In particular, I’m going to do it if I get stuck with the couple of judges that appeared to be a bit…biased (or downright rude - lol). Because it’s funny, of course.
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Well, I hit the daily double: My “stock horse” breed horse (though he was bred for dressage and is very definitely a sport horse type Appaloosa, 16,2 and half-Arabian*) was not hideously expensive, but now he is semi-retired at age 14 due to injury, and I certainly cannot afford a second horse. The truck is a 2003, the trailer is ancient and will have to be sold/scrapped, and my amateur dressage career, such as it is/was, is over. So, yeah …I should go into debt to purchase and support another horse. NOT.
*talk about very definitely NOT having his neck low set!! (Other side of the coin: When I took him to some little open schooling shows as a 4 year old for experience (halter/pleasure/equitation, etc.), he always placed behind the horses that DID look as if they should be out chasing cattle! LOL) Them judges in their cowboy hats didn’t know what to do with a tall, big moving horse that had spots but didn’t look like what they were used to seeing - and hilariously, the Appy part of his pedigree is Foundation blood, not QHX, that is, he’s closer to being a “real” Appaloosa than all those Quarterloosas.
Mystic - The other funny (as in “peculiar”) thing about that article was that if she had phrased the entire thing in terms of “if you want to succeed at the highest level and be competitive nationally/internationally,” or “tyou will settle for nothing less than success at Grand Prix,” her comments would have been taken as somewhat valid (er…except I think to really get up there even a five figure horse would be a dubious purchase unless you have the talent of a Laura Graves, e.g.) then most people would say, “yeah, probably, that’s right…” But IIRC, she was talking about conducting lessons/clinics with your “average” (whatever that means) amateur dressage enthusiast who says $5K is all I can afford for a horse. Not cool, and rather insulting on the writer’s part. There are undoubtedly people with unrealistic expectations of what they can accomplish, but many more who just want to get as far as they can with what they’ve got, and it’s not helpful to be told you should go into debt just to get a horse that can do a decent 2nd/3rd level (eventually).
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Did they learn to ride better? Because nearly everyone seems to be suggesting score inflation and that anything below these randomly raised minimums is poor or abusive riding.
this logic suggests we should simply raise minimums to 100, so we have a better pool of athletes to draw from for international competitions :lol::lol:
but no, they don’t care. Very much a let them eat cake attitude. Better start those loans for those cheap 50k horses
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No surprises that they won’t budge. I really think powers to be of the USDF and maybe the whole dressage industry would be happy if most of the AA’s would leave.
This month’s Cowgirl Magazine had a nice article about the Western Dressage World Gathering. One of the main points that everyone addressed (many riders and clinicians had come from the other Dressage realm) was how friendly and welcoming everyone. All breeds of horses and all levels of riders felt welcomed to be there.
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I wish I could remember where the “chasing cattle” comment came from.
I certainly heard that enough from JF every time I scribed for her
Oh no, they don’t want us to LEAVE! They want/NEED our membership dollars. And for dressage to continue, they NEED our volunteer efforts. And to keep getting sponsorship $, they NEED the membership numbers. So they don’t want us to LEAVE, they just want us to learn our place, and not show up at shows unless we can afford the appropriate horse (and training)… Minor clarification 
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And even better - now they have ON LINE content for a mere $36/MONTH! Yeah right…
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It was JF. I just can’t remember where/when she made it a public statement rather than just something said sotto voce to a scribe.
Oh, that really does make me sad… I would like to think our judges are above that kind of commentary.
I’m not anti-technology, I have a tablet and a smart phone, and I love the ability to look up just about anything on the internet, but when I want to really READ something, perhaps while sipping a cuppa tea and having a scone…I don’t want to do it sitting at a computer.
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I am glad I am not the only one.
I love that I can get books digitally and all, but I prefer the feel of a real book and the ability to read it almost anywhere. The same holds true for magazines.
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Fake News is alive and well even on this forum. It is sad people are judged on Fake News in every sector of our lives.
Janet was NOT on the Freestyle Committee and had nothing to do with the rule changes for minimum scores.
The link that was posted showing Janet’s score history is only partial and does not reflect the years of 1976 to 1983 when she was actively training and showing. The scores from her years at Table Mountain, Capricorn and Bara Farms are not shown (Hibernian Breeze, Constitution, Electus, Gaspadin, Raubritter, Applause, Abracadabra, Lago, Ballad, Ravenwood Hairoy,Strawberry Mouse, Ta-Aden, Bright Owl, Easter, and Fashing to name a few). Fashing and Abracadabra had multiple scores over 70. Many USDF HOY placings and Regional Champion and Reserve wins were accomplished by this list of horses. She was invited to Insilico with Ballad and Lago and the US Sports Festival Team with Gaspadin.
Janet has always encouraged every talent level of rider and every breed of horse to participate in Dressage. She trained/competed an Arabian (free gratus) to fulfill my dream of having him shown at Arabian Nationals and then taught a middle aged training level rider to ride the Third Level movements so the horse wouldn’t be bored to death in training level forever. She even helped me train a Half Arabian mule. She was well into her FEI judging career and had her pick of talented warmblood horses and riders to work with at that time.
