@Sue B aww poor silly guy! Definitely a possibility for my mare, thank you
@DQ Foxhunter UGH I may end up eating my words on another recent thread about not giving/handling Regumate. It’s already been suggested by my vet but I’ve been avoiding. I begrudgingly add it to the list…
I have a mare who does something very similar except some extra weirdness thrown in- she only does it on our home trails/ ring. If I trailer her out, I have zero spookiness issues. It also usually only occurs at a walk, faster than a walk and we’re good to go. She’s on Regumate already (for a different issue), gets regular massage work, has a custom saddle, no issues with ulcers (been scoped and gets Ulcergard before trailering etc), eyes checked… I cannot come up with anything. I’ve come off once from it and fortunately it wasn’t too bad. Then like this past weekend, we literally rode over 50 miles in 2.5 days. She saw all kinds of things she’s never seen (including elk, bear, etc) and never once blinked an eye at anything. So if you figure it out, feel free to share lol!
This is a stretch, but I had a mare with photic head shaking syndrome and now that I look back on it, I think her random spooking started well before the headshaking syndrome became so pronounce that it was diagnosable. The fact your mare was better with a fly mask made me think of this as the mask will block the sunlight, therefore no “trigger” for the spook, if in fact it’s related. Like I said, just a thought I thought I toss out there.
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@tabula rashah I will definitely keep updating, I’m sorry I bet that’s so frustrating!
@cayuse thank you, definitely something I wouldn’t have thought of, will mention to vet tomorrow
Another ‘out there’ remedy IF it’s eye problems or a developing eye problem: Had a young dog develop severe cataracts seemingly overnight in both eyes. I tracked it down to his being prescribed antibiotics at about 15 times the normal dose (as I was told by 2nd opinion vet).
While researching some miracle cure to turn this around I found that Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) and Niacin can sometimes prevent
or slow down developing cataracts. These vitamins can be purchased individually as the % in B complex vits or multi-vits is probably too low. I used human vitamins.
Just something to think about. Is your mare on any all purpose multi-vitamin? See this article how deficiencies of these 2 vitamins can cause eye problems, specifically cataracts.
https://www.livescience.com/51966-vitamin-b2-riboflavin.html
@Marla 100 no she isn’t! I’ve been giving her B1 (Thiamine) for about 10 days but otherwise, no. I have some Niacin left over from trying to battle my periorificial dermatitis, I shall start popping it in her feed
It’s my understanding that the eye exam a generalist can perform in the field is just suuuuuper rudimentary. It’ll pick up on giant glaring issues, but not the more subtle stuff.
Given that this sure sounds like it might be visual in nature, and the fly mask led to some improvement, it might be worth getting her checked over by an honest to god equine opthalmologist? Or at least something to consider if you run through a few more options and are still scratching your head.
Good luck!
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You know, I’ve been thinking this too. I mean, it’s basically just checking if they’re like fully blind or not, and then if they can see anything like an ulcer or cataracts starting or something. I’ll have to see if there’s true equine ophthalmologists in the area.
Alright I feel like we are narrowing in on the eyes. She was the same tonight as she was last night - better, but still not 100%. With a fly mask on. I did some more experimenting tonight and it appears that there is a change in response based on where her head is. Llama and free, little to no cares about chosen spooky objects. On contact, mild jump/kooky-loo, balked from 18m away. Stretch, significant shy away and rushing past (she used to have a glorious and steady stretchy trot). This held true for trot and canter. Walk was totally fine today.
It could be argued that this could also indicate neck and/or back pain, so I’ll add that I gave her two grams of bute this morning to do a “bute test.” Doesn’t mean it’s not possible, of course, but less likely I think?
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https://horsesport.com/magazine/health/corpora-nigra-cysts-can-affect-your-horses-vision/
Something to consider?
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Very interesting. Last week the vet did do a look in both eyes with a flash light, but it wasn’t a very bright flash light. I’ll ask her to look again tomorrow. And/Or find an ophthalmologist.
Since you mentioned head position, spooking was the first symptom of my horse’s neck arthritis. He also had some effusion at the poll at that time as well. Progressed to not wanting to go forward (his go-to evasion) and then unwillingness to go one direction. He tended to spook more out of the left eye (the way he didn’t want to go was to the left as well, so spooking was mostly at stuff outside the ring when we were tracking right). And he spooked at imaginary things behind him. Generally, he was more noise reactive, so shying or scooting at something he thought he saw was unusual. The only time he was ever more spooky in atypical ways was when we tried Previcox / Equioxx briefly.
Ulcers also would make him more spooky, but he was overall just more reactive/sensitive/pissed off. The neck related spooking (as well as Previcox spooking) would sometimes make him freak out and scoot for like 4 strides, slow down, have a little buck, and then I swear go, huh, well that was weird. Like he seemed confused about what scared him.
I rode another horse who turned into a spooky mess when his stifles bothered him. Including stopping at a ground pole from about 15 meters away and snorting at it. This was a jumper. And freaking out over different colors in the footing. Totally went away after addressing the stifles. I see you have already done that, but there could still be pain somewhere. See neck above… or, perhaps back?
If she is weird about bridle fit and weird about head position, I’d probably be looking closely at the head, poll, and neck. Bones, soft tissue, sinuses, bursae, nerves. I think it’s possibly somewhat neuro related but may be a physical cause (spurs at the poll? upper cervical issues? inflamed nerve in the head–cracked tooth or subclinical infection?) or maybe it is kind of early signs of headshaking.
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@CanteringCarrot Umm, no. Not at all. I previously did the suggestions most offered, sorry you and others couldn’t appreciate that.
My horse spooks at very familiar items sometimes because he happens to “see” them again. Lighting changes and he “sees” them again. I’ll reiterate that he has had an equine opthamologist, an equine internal medicine vet, two vet chiros, two farriers and a number of trainers rule things out. If you haven’t done due diligence yet, I suggest an equine opthamologist first, a professional independent saddle fitter next, and an internal medicine vet (that’s a specialty) and/or a vet chiropractor (that’s a specialty) to help you figure out what might be going on. Some horses refer mild pain to spookiness to stop the pain.
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Sometimes when one of my horses just goes sideways a bit, I let them sit for a while, and then come back to it. It could be something as stupid as she rolled on a rock and has triggered a nerve. Have you tried a bute trial? Or Gapapentin trial? Could be changes in hormones though too, but I wouldn’t expect it to last 3 weeks.
I was going to suggest this, if you rule out other causes–see an ophthalmologist. You’re in Florida–Dr. Dennis Brooks is at the UF CVM, and he’s phenomenal.
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agree with Ovarian and eye assessment. I would also ask why alfalfa,
Might a high quality Timothy do as well? While she has been on Alfalfa for a while, perhaps not the best choice now. keep it in mind
@IPEsq and @CHT I’m definitely trying to rule out pain somewhere. Her stifles could still not be 100%, could be neck or back for sure, I plan on calling my chiro after the vet comes today. We are in the midst of a bute trial, I gave her 2 grams bute Monday night after we rode, 2 grams Tuesday morning, and 2 grams this morning. Monday’s ride was without bute, but with a fly mask, and she was better, still not totally normal. Tuesday’s ride, on bute, was the same as Monday. That’s a lot of bute so I feel like she would have been better last night if it were a neck/back issue, but will discuss with vet today.
I’m impatient so I looked at her eyes myself this morning. I’m on the fence (because you know, I’m not an ophthalmologist :winkgrin:). The corpora nigra look “puffier” than some photos of “normal” ones I found online, but not exceptionally blobby or anything. I looked at the eyes of two other horses here and theirs look essentially the same. I tried to get photos but didn’t get good ones, she kept closing her eyes (understandable). But they’re attached for your your viewing pleasure.
@Ghazzu thanks for the recommendation! I did a brief Google search last night and didn’t find anything, I figured there’d probably be one at UF at least, though.
@CHT I agree that it’s weird to last this long if it were hormones, I think we’re closer to four weeks now. She was in heat just a little while ago, ended a day or two before the vet came last week. I guess I should start dating stuff so I don’t get confused on timing. Vet came 8/20. But I’m wondering if maybe something’s wrong with the ovaries, or tumor or cyst or something?
Has she been tested for EPM?
I had a long list of ‘what on earth is going on’ last summer with my mare, this is “not the horse I bought”. EPM was tested for, thankfully negative. Vet was very dismissive of my concerns wanted to just dumb it down as a ‘training issue’ but in the end she needed her back injected. Between that, Robaxin (methorcarbamol) and a new saddle, she’s just gotten better and better, and a year later I finally feel like I have back the horse I bought.
I feel your pain.
Looks like we’re all pretty much in agreement on lady bits or eyes, so at least we have it narrowed down (hopefully correctly).
I prefer my horses, when able, to get free-choice hay, and my mare eats about 35-lbs per day on average. To be frank, I’m not spending $35 on a single 70-lb square bale, aka $500+ per month on hay per horse. Throwing that many flakes every day from squares is also annoying. A local hay dealer sells large compressed blocks that are super easy to pop out in the pasture as needed, they’re 500-1000 lbs and come out to about $0.22/lb (vs $0.40-0.50/lb). I’ve also never agreed with the hype that alfalfa makes them hot, and I’ve never experienced that issue myself. I don’t consider what my mare is doing right now as being “hot,” and even though she’s always been a tense mare, she’s also always been a lazy mare, so I’d actually be happy for some increased energy, however her energy level (nor spookiness/tenseness) has never changed with or without alfalfa. I can get the compressed blocks as O/A instead of straight alfalfa, so that is an option, but I’d consider it a last-ditch effort personally, since I don’t agree with the alfalfa=hot theory. I also like her to get some alfalfa for the benefits against stomach ulcers.
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Ugh, glad she’s gotten better though!
We’ve not tested for EPM, but have considered it, yes. It’s not written off, I’ve just tried to avoid having to haul to the clinic as of yet. Tis down the list.
