Rare breed purebred dog, or craigslist puppy?

[QUOTE=Sswor;8762834]
She said she couldn’t. Not all aussie mixes are created equal. These puppies looked like they would fit her bill, and she couldn’t find any puppies like this at rescue. I’m sure you will now post a billion aussie cross petfinder ads proving otherwise but really, the craigslist puppy is better off with the OP buying it then it ending up on Petfinder itself in 6 months.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know how you can look at that ad and know much of anything about the quality of the puppies?! They are cute mixed breed puppies like a million others and there’s no way to tell anything more.

If you support people who breed indisciminately, you encourage them to continue. It’s not hard to understand that concept. Buying a puppy from someone who thinks being brown is a good enough trait to earn the right to reproduce ensures there will be more and more puppies like that-- many of which end up in shelters and being put to sleep.

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[QUOTE=vxf111;8762850]
I don’t know how you can look at that ad and know much of anything about the quality of the puppies?! They are cute mixed breed puppies like a million others and there’s no way to tell anything more.

If you support people who breed indisciminately, you encourage them to continue. It’s not hard to understand that concept. Buying a puppy from someone who thinks being brown is a good enough trait to earn the right to reproduce ensures there will be more and more puppies like that-- many of which end up in shelters and being put to sleep.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. And this is where rescues become necessary.

I like rescue, I think they should exist. But bad breeders feed dogs to rescue organizations and then people get “a good feeling” about taking the dog. And for some reason people have “bad feelings” about buying a deliberately bred puppy from a reputable breeder.

Ironic.

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For the record I don’t necessarily have a blanket problem with people creating mixed breed puppies under certain circumstances. But doing it because they are “cute” or “good pets” for the purpose of selling on CL is not a good enough reason.

[QUOTE=vxf111;8762823]
Reason #5001 why people who cross two dogs “because they’re cute” and then sell them to any Tom, Dick, or Harry on CL are bad news.

Do you think someone who can’t be bothered to health check their own breeding stock and who thinks the most important attribute of a puppy is “blue eyes” is actually screening prospective homes carefully?

Or taking the puppies back when they can’t stay in their first home as any responsible breeder does. Far more likely they’re being dumped in the shelter system

Many puppies like that will end up given away for no reason you couldn’t fix. If the OP really likes that mix, she should be able to find it without rewarding idiots who think breeding cute to cute is a good way to make money without really trying. I find a lot of aussie mixes and husky mixes on petfinder in my area. I don’t know what the OP’s area is, but if she likes that kind of cross she should be able to find one.

She even said she’d be interested in that.[/QUOTE]

Even if you have the skills to train through somebody else’s mistakes, sometimes you just don’t want to deal with that garbage.

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[QUOTE=vxf111;8762850]
I don’t know how you can look at that ad and know much of anything about the quality of the puppies?! They are cute mixed breed puppies like a million others and there’s no way to tell anything more.

If you support people who breed indisciminately, you encourage them to continue. It’s not hard to understand that concept. Buying a puppy from someone who thinks being brown is a good enough trait to earn the right to reproduce ensures there will be more and more puppies like that-- many of which end up in shelters and being put to sleep.[/QUOTE]

Well I don’t think she was going to buy the puppy sight unseen from the ad.

Honestly, if there is not an overpopulation of the kind of dogs people want, and in the OP’s case there isn’t (and she is not alone), what is wrong with breeding more? Seriously. Some say don’t shop, adopt, but when all there is available is pitbulls, random lab crosses, and hounds–and rescues are shipping dogs in from other countries to satisfy demand for exotic adoptions, I think it’s perfectly fine to buy that random-bred craigs list puppy.

$500 is steep though. Clearly there is a demand for that cross.

[QUOTE=vxf111;8762874]
For the record I don’t necessarily have a blanket problem with people creating mixed breed puppies under certain circumstances. But doing it because they are “cute” or “good pets” for the purpose of selling on CL is not a good enough reason.[/QUOTE]

But if they sell for $500 there is a demand. Not many sketchy people drop $500 casually on a pet. Come to think of it, maybe that is one way the breeder is screening for good homes for the puppies. If they were selling them for 40 bucks, wouldn’t that be worse?

You…

  1. Assume they actually sell for $500. Just because someone asks doesn’t mean it happens. Or happens 100% of the time. I think rarely do all those CL puppies sell for the asking price.

  2. Sketchy people drop all kinds of money on all kinds of things. Are you kidding? If you put “Olde English” in front of the name, claim it’s “razor’s edge” or mention the color of its nose, people will pay 4 figures for unpapered mutty dogs. Some of the most craptastic puppies on CL are the one they’re asking big bucks for. The asking price is not in any way determinative of the quality of the dog or perspective buyer.

  3. How do you know there’s no overpopulation of fluffy medium/large sized dogs? Because that’s what those puppies are. No more, no less. They literally have nothing more to speak for them. They are the offspring of two nice pets who apparently are equipped with sex organs and that’s all you can pretty much say for the bitch and dog.

25 aussie mix puppies come up on Petfinder within a 50 mile radius of my zip code. Slightly fewer husky mix puppies. I didn’t search malmute mix, collie mix, shephard mix, etc. Puppies like that are likely to be listed as all sorts of crosses. It you want a little fluffy mixed breed puppy with blue eyes-- there is no shortage. There JUST ISN’T.

And that doesn’t include getting a purebred dog from a reputible breeder.

There may be a lot of pitbull crosses in shelters but that hardly means that’s all that’s out there. If you put in nothing but puppy on petfinder-- you get scores of local responses. Many are pit bulls, not all are. First 10 hits for my area-- hound mix, border collie mix, corgi mix, cavalier mix, a bunch of shepard mixes all from 1 litter, and a litter of lab mixes. Maybe a couple you could argue are actually pit bull mixes but plenty are not. If you want a mixed breed dog of a specific phenotype (fluffy, blue eyes, etc.) it’s out there, you just have to be patient and look.

  1. No, it wouldn’t be better if they were selling for $40. You’re missing the point. The point is that they’re making puppies with really unknown health futures for nothing but profit. Puppies who are going to homes that may be sketchy and that, even if good homes, are homes that could be filled by puppies who are NOT a for-profit venture. Like the ones on perfinder.
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Husky/aussie mix puppies you say?

https://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/35767871

vfx111: OP said there was nothing available in rescue that would work for her. OP is not the only one to experience that problem. You don’t get to decide for other people what is the right dog for them. Just because 2 dogs have fluffy coats and blue eyes does not make them equal.

Saying that the $500 puppy doesn’t deserve a home in order to punish the breeder for some sort of moral transgression isn’t something that everyone can get around. I can’t. If she wants the puppy, she should go buy the puppy.

[QUOTE=Sswor;8763012]
vfx111: OP said there was nothing available in rescue that would work for her. OP is not the only one to experience that problem. You don’t get to decide for other people what is the right dog for them. Just because 2 dogs have fluffy coats and blue eyes does not make them equal.

Saying that the $500 puppy doesn’t deserve a home in order to punish the breeder for some sort of moral transgression isn’t something that everyone can get around. I can’t. If she wants the puppy, she should go buy the puppy.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think I ever did tell the OP or anyone else what dog was right for them? Now you’re putting words in my mouth.

I also never said any puppy doesn’t deserve a home?

I don’t even get what you’re saying about all blue eyed dogs being equal. Now you’re honestly just not making sense?!

You’re either not understanding or not reading for comprehension. Look I know you paid $350 for a mixed breed puppy. So now you feel some obligation to defende people who breed mixed breed puppies. But people who don’t health test their animals, don’t prove them in anything, don’t research the breeding, don’t vet homes, and are in it for the money-- THEY are the reason why dogs get put to sleep by the hundreds every day. And as long as there’s a market in which to make money pumping out the dogs, it’ll keep happening. Not only mixed breed dogs but poorly bred purebred dogs too. If people stopped buying them, they’d stop breeding them.

You don’t have to believe/accept it for it to be true.

I said upthread that I think it would be great if the OP wanted a mixed breed dog/puppy OR held out for a chinook OR researched some other breeds she might like-- but get a dog from a reputible source. That’s all.

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Puppies, like horses, are worth what someone will pay.

If the OP, or someone else, wants to pay $500 for a puppy, be it off Craigslist, a breeder, or a rescue, so be it.

Who am I, or vfx111, to say that the pup is not worth $500 to them?

BTW, the notion that any animal on Craigslist with a “rehoming fee” isn’t for sale is just crap. Rescues sell dogs and cats everyday, they just aren’t honest enough to use the word “sell.”

I just realized where the OP is located. On petfinder there’s a litter of adorable aussie mix puppies within 25 miles of Seattle.

https://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/35701100

Sometimes you have to be patient too, it took me MONTHS to find my dog. But given that OP doesn’t seem to be on a particularly strict timeframe, I would advise her to keep looking and keep checking local resources.

[QUOTE=red mares;8763032]
Puppies, like horses, are worth what someone will pay.

If the OP, or someone else, wants to pay $500 for a puppy, be it off Craigslist, a breeder, or a rescue, so be it.

Who am I, or vfx111, to say that the pup is not worth $500 to them?

BTW, the notion that any animal on Craigslist with a “rehoming fee” isn’t for sale is just crap. Rescues sell dogs and cats everyday, they just aren’t honest enough to use the word “sell.”[/QUOTE]

I didn’t say anything about what any puppy was worth. I said someone who is investing minimal money in puppies and then selling them for a digit more on CL is in it for the money. Call it a “rehoming fee” call it a “sale” call it “Bob”… if you created puppies so you could make money off them, you’re selling them. Doesn’t matter if you use a ephamism to try get around CL rules.

Some organizations may also be the same. I don’t know too many that are breeding but I suppose there are bad apples out there. Many are not. Maybe they charge more than you think is appropriate, but they’re also not generally creating the puppies in the first place. Which is what makes it a bit different.

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[QUOTE=vxf111;8763031]
I don’t think I ever did tell the OP or anyone else what dog was right for them? Now you’re putting words in my mouth.

I also never said any puppy doesn’t deserve a home?

I don’t even get what you’re saying about all blue eyed dogs being equal. Now you’re honestly just not making sense?!

You’re either not understanding or not reading for comprehension. Look I know you paid $350 for a mixed breed puppy. So now you feel some obligation to defende people who breed mixed breed puppies. But people who don’t health test their animals, don’t prove them in anything, don’t research the breeding, don’t vet homes, and are in it for the money-- THEY are the reason why dogs get put to sleep by the hundreds every day. And as long as there’s a market in which to make money pumping out the dogs, it’ll keep happening. Not only mixed breed dogs but poorly bred purebred dogs too. If people stopped buying them, they’d stop breeding them.

You don’t have to believe/accept it for it to be true.

I said upthread that I think it would be great if the OP wanted a mixed breed dog/puppy OR held out for a chinook OR researched some other breeds she might like-- but get a dog from a reputible source. That’s all.[/QUOTE]

I think it’s great that you are so passionate about rescue. Not everyone feels the same as you do. You can’t bully the whole world into supporting your own personal cause.

You stated the OP could just wait 6 months until the craigs list puppy was available through a rescue. Tongue in cheek perhaps but an example that you think this is ok whereas buying it outright not so much? I bet the craigs list puppy would disagree. But in the rabid rescuers world, that puppy doesn’t deserve a home outright, because to provide it one rewards the breeder. The puppy needs to be taken and put into one situation for a few weeks, pediatric neutered, only to be removed and put into another situation, all in the name of saving animals.

People will always breed dogs, on purpose or accidentally. Thankfully, people will always want pets too. Why does there need to be a middle man in there making money calling themselves a rescue to make it all ok?

You’re putting up links to rescue dogs you think are what the OP wants to prove that she is wrong when she says she couldn’t find a suitable rescue dog. Refer to this thread: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?495601-That-Friend

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I don’t think I am passionate about rescue? I didn’t get my dog from a rescue? On my very first post I suggested she buy a dog from a breeder if that’s what she really wants?! I plan on buying my next dog from a breeder.

I was being sarcastic about waiting for those same puppies to be giveaways on CL. I thought that was obvious but if not, yes, that was sarcasm.

People may always breed dogs-- but undoubtedly creating a market drives the breeding. 10 years ago there was not a labradoodle/goldendoodle out there. Now you can’t blink without seeing one… because people wanted them and it became a cash chow. I think most rescues would love to be put out of business. As long as there are “oops” and indiscriminate breeding, it won’t happen. That doesn’t make stoking the fire/supporting the practice a responsible thing to do. It’s like saying “people will always steal, so it’s ok for me to buy stolen merchandise.”

I did not stalk the OP to read her other threads to find out what she really wants in a dog. I am going by what she said on this thread alone. She seemed to want either a chinook or a fluffy mixed breed puppy likely to look/act like her older dog. I think either is an option. She can pursue either without supporting a BYB on CL.

Based on her other thread (which I am only just now seeing)… she wants a puppy from a responsible breeder. Great. She may have to be patient given that her breed of choice is so rare, but that seems like a reasonable thing to do under the circumstances-- be patient and wait for that well-bred dog she really wants.

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[QUOTE=vxf111;8763134]
People may always breed dogs-- but undoubtedly creating a market drives the breeding. 10 years ago there was not a labradoodle/goldendoodle out there. Now you can’t blink without seeing one… because people wanted them and it became a cash chow. I think most rescues would love to be put out of business. As long as there are “oops” and indiscriminate breeding, it won’t happen. That doesn’t make stoking the fire/supporting the practice a responsible thing to do. It’s like saying “people will always steal, so it’s ok for me to buy stolen merchandise.”[/QUOTE]

Pardon but what’s wrong with that. Labradoodles apparently make great pets. Or at least they must, since there is a demand for them.

Rescues who truly rescue will always be in business because there is a facet of the human population that can be exceedingly cruel and irresponsible. Restricting a kind, responsible person from buying a puppy will never ever end cruelty. Someone else will just buy them.

Regarding your thievery metaphor, breeding cross bred dogs is not illegal, nor is wanting to buy a cross bred puppy. Nor is either inherently immoral. I continue to argue that if you want a specific cross bred puppy, and you can give the puppy a good home, there is nothing wrong with buying one. Pet store, flea market, walmart parking lot, garage sale, craigs list, have at it.

When people post about all those terrible rescues that are in it for the money, I have to wonder where you are and how you are finding out about them! I have never heard of a rescue in my area that is breeding, buying from puppy mills, etc. There are TONS of legitimate rescues out there, and few illegitimate ones. The reason there are so many legitimate rescues are because there are so many pets that no one wants. Why are we adding more? If even purebred dogs and cats end up in shelters, then why are we breeding mixed breed animals with no genetic testing and no homes lined up? Is it unreasonable to think that if there are so many animals that need homes (and we’re talking cats and kittens and fluffy puppies here too, not just pit bulls like you seem to think) we don’t need to put more on this earth, especially those that aren’t stellar examples of a breed?
The puppies the OP was talking about may be great and end up with good homes. It doesn’t mean that it was a responsible choice to support indiscriminate breeding. That breeder made a ton off of those puppies if they sold at $500 each, because I guarantee that they didn’t plan that litter meticulously and pull progesterone and do an AI and an ultrasound and an x-ray for puppy count. Buying from that breeder will only make them want to breed again to make more money. That’s what is wrong with buying a cross bred puppy. It supports an industry that is indirectly killing animals because a home that buys one of these aussie mix puppies is a home that isn’t open to the next aussie mix puppy that is dumped at the rescue’s front door or has an aussie mom with puppies brought in as a stray. And the breeder will continue breeding until no one wants his puppies anymore, at which point, he will dump the last litter at the shelter and stop breeding.

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I’m interested in the conversation, but maybe want to change it’s direction a little bit, to talk about breed traits, choosing a breed where the big center of the bell curve meets your lifestyle rather than the outliers. And if maybe crosses can sometimes temper the more extreme personality /physical traits of some purebreds.

Here are some fairly extreme examples:

Belgian Tervuren (a breed I considered, but did not pursue for this reason): Dogs in the middle of the bell curve of personalities in this breed are not a dog for the casual pet owner, they take more of everything to keep happy. More physical exercise, more mental exercise, more everything. This remains true of the breed well past 5 years old, it’s not a young dog thing with these dogs. There are mellow individuals of course, but they are the exception not the rule. My roommate said he would like one, and I told him HE could be the one to QUIT HIS JOB in order to entertain the dog.

Pugs: I know of some very fine agility pugs! But they also tend to do best in agility organizations with less emphasis on fast times and high jumps (more CPE than AKC). And many just don’t do agility well because they are too slow. The middle of the bell curve of these very cute and fun little dogs isn’t ideal for a high energy dog sport. Has anyone seen any flyball pugs? I’m sure they exist, but it doesn’t seem like it would be common.

Before I go on: I WOULD NEVER RECOMMEND DOING THIS!!! really OMG, NO! (like crossing a hackney pony with a Suffolk Punch… just NO.). If I see someone advertise a designer puggian shepherd 6 months from now, I will find you, say lots of bad words to you, and mock you everywhere on the inter-webz!!

These 2 breeds, who are very, very different may have some good things in common, like biddability, and a desire to be with their people. Maybe if you crossed the two, you’d get smaller, less hairy, less energetic, less OCD than the Belgian, more energetic, more athletic than the pug middle of the road pretty versatile pet. Probably the majority would be somewhere in the vast center of pretty OK, and 1 out of 50 would be a hot mess in some way. And they would all be kinda funny looking.

But it’s a little bit of an illustration of what I found when I really started talking to people with different purebred dogs. A lot of them were ‘too xxx’, of course I could find an individual that would suit, but the big middle of the bell curve would be a dog that was too <insert trait here>.

Which is why I started pursuing Chinooks, for my needs, they were sort of the Goldilocks of dogs: Not too independent, not too obsessive, not too barky, not too protective, not too hairy, not too bald etc. And it seemed to me, that a middle ground med/large pure breed was a hard thing to come by.

Others that made the potential consideration, and are still on the list:
*Samoyed: Little too much hair, my roommate doesn’t like white dogs - who knows why
*Australian Shepherd: They have no tails!
*Duck Tolling Retriever : a little small, maybe next round
*Berger Picard: more aloof than I prefer, but a good choice
*German Shepherd: Breed too fragmented, breed devotees to devoted to old style training methods.
*Belgian Shepherds - all three types: the middle of the bell curve in this breed is too much dog, though there might be individuals that are suitable.
*Giant breeds, as a group: don’t live long enough, eat more than my horses.
*Spaniels/Setters: coat hard to care for, pendulous ears hard to care for.
*Sighthounds: too much prey drive, too likely to be a problem for my cat.

[QUOTE=vxf111;8763008]
Husky/aussie mix puppies you say?

https://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/35767871[/QUOTE]

They are cute, but that’s a wee bit of a 3000 mile drive for me. :slight_smile: But yes, occasionally things some up on the rescue sites.

But, and this is a pretty big ‘But’ around here. I went looking for a kitten, and found that young kittens disappear out of the shelters here in less than a day of being adoptable. I did adopt a teenage cat ~8-10 mo old, from a good shelter, with a history of living with dogs last October, and I am VERY, VERY happy with her. She’s fabulous.

Puppies, in rescues, here also go super fast.

Hey… and apparently, it’s the same deal for random bred puppies on craigslist for crazy prices, they go faster than I can get it together to look at them in person.

it sounds like you’re doing your research and that you’re on the right track. I didn’t catch earlier that you wanted to do agility (if I read correctly, you are). I think one GREAT path, if that’s true, is to look up the AKC results by breed and contact some of the breeders who have a lot of dogs showing in that breed. That’s a good way to narrow down not just to a breed or to a breeder-- but one who is breeding the “within the breed type” that you want.

You have some real tough dogs on that list. Unless you WANT a tough dog, I would cross those out and not hope to find an “outlier for breed.” It’s like someone who likes border collies but can’t have a drivey dog. Are there non drivey BCs? Sure. Would I suggest that person start turning over rocks trying to find one? I would suggest that person look at something slightly different, maybe a bearded collie or rough collie instead. Sure, you can find that “non bell curve” dog but it’s hard.

I, for one, would be less picky about looks (not white) and more picky about temperment-- but everyone’s different. I think if you make a list of what you MUST have, what you WANT, what you DON’T want, and what you CAN’T have-- that can be helpful. I think you’re part of the way there with what you’ve posted but as an outsider looking in, it’s hard for me to see the thought process/similarity between a tervuren, a pug, and a setter-- so maybe you will get better input if you do that MUST/WANT/DON’t/CAN’T list.

I also say that if a chinook is the all perfect dog for you, you should pursue it. Even if it means being patient. And persistent. I don’t know based on your most recent post that you’re quite there yet-- but if that is THE BREED I think it’s worth waiting for. Absolutely.

P.S.- Some aussies have tails! :slight_smile:

P.P.S.- And I think your handsome dog looks to me like a border collie/aussie cross-- not a husky/aussie. Though I guess you’ll never know. Let me see if I can find a picture of a friend’s border collie/aussie