I guess I wasn’t very clear on what I was asking.I’m thinking the head shaking syndrome is related to not getting enough minerals.I can’t seem to find much information on what other people have tryed to help with this problem.My vet didn’t seem to know much about it.She doesn’t do it in the pasture.She’ll do it on the lounge line and when I ride her.I used to think it was a attitude problem,but after reading what I could find on it I’m not so sure.I I thought I would start with trying a Ration Balancer for a few months to see if that helps.I know she doesn’t lick the salt block much as when her muzzle is off she is eating!When it’s on she doesn’t try to lick it.My horses don’t like loose salt either.I am planning on asking the vet about Insulin Resistance being the problem.Purina also has a product called Wellsolve that was also suggested to me.Has anyone tryed this product?
The OP is asking about vitamins, minerals and head shaking, not calories. And we don’t know if there is a hay or pasture analysis, so it’s quite possible the horse needs nothing. Since there is no hay or pasture analysis, then you need to look at the horse and decide if you think they might need something with more protein, or not. You feed to maintain the desired body condition, not by a spreadsheet. You need to look at the horse in front of you when you don’t have a hay or pasture analysis.
You brought up calories, not me 
TC Lite is formulated for horses in your situation that, due to weight issues, cannot always have free choice forage or a full serving of concentrate.
And we don’t know if there is a hay or pasture analysis, so it’s quite possible the horse needs nothing. Since there is no hay or pasture analysis, then you need to look at the horse and decide if you think they might need something with more protein, or not. You feed to maintain the desired body condition, not by a spreadsheet. You need to look at the horse in front of you when you don’t have a hay or pasture analysis.
All horses need nutrients above their forage for optimal health. That’s a given. No forage is perfectly balanced, and since most forages in the US are high in iron, and either outright low in copper and zinc, or low in relation to the iron, would benefit from more. If it’s a hay-only diet, there’s effectively no Vitamin E, so given enough time, without supplementation, the horse will become deficient. Many areas of the US have low selenium soils, some have very high selenium soils, so if forage is not providing enough, you need to be adding some or you will end up with problems at some point.
Many grasses are not high enough in calcium either.
What they might not need is more calories.
My only comments to you were that your context of less protein, and suitable for horses who need calories in check, make no sense because you never talked about per serving, only on the label. As-fed, your statements are incorrect.
There is more to properly feeding horses than seeing their body condition. So yes, the spreadsheets do matter, and matter a lot in some areas.
So for the average easy keeper (not metabolic syndrome or insulin resistant) who leans towards the over weight side on grass only and doesn’t need any extra calories, what do you recommend to fill in diet deficiencies? Just access to a mineral block or loose minerals? This is something I’ve wondered about a lot.
I don’t know where, geographically, the OP is, but I use Min-A-Vit lite from Blue Seal as my ration balancer.
https://blueseal.com/product/?id=55
Low protein and designed to be fed in smaller quantities. For a standard horse they recommend only 2-3 cups per day for horses on 0-2.5 lbs of grain. My OTTB gets 1 cup MAVL and 1 cup Blue Seal Trotter twice a day with plenty of hay and/or grass and she is in excellent shape, though it will increase when she finally gets in regular work soon.
I also use this for my easy keeper, borderline IR, 26 old pony. She has come close to foundering twice in her life and is currently 100% sound and in good weight on 3/4 c MAVL and 1/4 c trotter twice a day + Remission and Hoof supplement once a day.
https://extension.psu.edu/feeding-horses [h=2]Protein and vitamin-mineral supplements are added to the diet to increase the diet’s concentration. Grains are energy supplements to a high forage diet. Only add supplements to the diet if something is missing. Some protein supplements are oilseed meals, soybeans, cottonseed, linseed (flaxseed) meal, peanut meal, sunflower seed meal and rapeseed (canola). Vitamin and mineral supplements should only be added to the diet if the horse is deficient. Generally, the only minerals of concern in feeding horses are calcium, phosphorus and salt. In some geographical areas, lack of selenium and, in growing horses, copper and zinc, is a concern. Other minerals are likely to be present in adequate amounts in a normal diet.
Reports of uncomplicated nutrient deficiencies in horses are rare. [/h]
How in the world did all those horses manage to survive and thrive, and continue to survive and thrive, without the spreadsheet? Maybe because horses don’t suffer from nutrient deficiencies.
there are some great high quality, high nutrient, “no” calorie v/m supplements for these guys. I’ve used several, because I have 1 who never, ever needs calories beyond forage. HorseTech’s High Point Grass, Uckele Sporthorse Grass and U-Balance Foundation, MegaCell, and California Trace are a few.
Huge difference between smaller, feral horses with access to a huge variety of forages and weeds and flowers, who aren’t asked to carry weight, or work, and the domestic horse who is the opposite of all that.
You can choose to see a “fat shiny” horse and assume all is right on the inside. I prefer to look at the numbers and KNOW what is going on and supplement accordingly so that my horses who are asked to carry me and work can be in optimal health.
It’s the difference between Jane Doe who gets up, goes to work, comes home, maybe putters in the garden for an hour before dinner, then watches TV after dinner and goes to bed, rinse and repeat, and the person who looks to their life 50 years down the road, works out with a purpose, actively works to prevent cholesterol and blood sugar problems, and does what it takes to not end up with problems caused by benign neglect.
I’m not here to change your mind. I’m commenting because your comments lead others to believe that as long as they are in “good body condition”, not to mention flat out incorrect in some of your nutrient statements, then everything is and will be just fine. Whatever anyone chooses to do and believe is likewise up to them. At least they have another side to the story to choose from.
There’s a BIG difference between a nutrient deficiency of enough proportion to cause disease (or dis-ease), and enough to cause those pesky little problems like scratches, fading coat, not the greatest hoof quality, and more things that too many people take for granted and just want whatever marketing hype tells the will fix those symptoms.
The NRC book even states in several places that some of their nutrient recommendations are only about preventing clinical diseases, not about what’s needed for optimal health.
Me? I prefer to aim for optimal health. It’s much easier than trying to play catch up later.
I personally don’t like “fat” horses. They are usually being overfed. Depending on what you are doing with the horse, you might want a leaner body condition. Most feral horses are descendants from domesticated horses. I have not seen many of them, much less see them thrive in competition over the past decades. If you go through 20 top barns, you will find 20 different feeding programs. They can’t all be right, since there is only one set of numbers.
And I’ll go out on a limb and mention that there seem to be a huge number of horses with metabolic issues, which is more related to overfeeding than a lack of anything. Because “just in case” and “to make sure Dobbin gets everything he needs.” Just like with people, there are way way way more health issues in the equine population related to overfeeding than to underfeeding.
Back to the original topic, the OP wants to give her horse minerals to help with head shaking. What is your suggestion?
ADM Grow strong minerals works great put out free feed. Or can feed it in a small handful of pellets. My gelding does great on it. He’s worked hard 6 days a week so no pasture puff.
This is all he gets plus hay/pasture no feed lean & muscled. He eats a cup of the mineral a day it’s put out free Feed.
I 100% agree with you. Too many overweight horses. I used quotes for that because I do see a lot of people saying their horses are “fat and shiny” and they’re not really fat, just healthy with a glow. I should have clarified that. I was really referring to your use of just body condition in a previous post - if they’re in good body condition, they’re getting all they need. That isn’t necessarily true.
Most feral horses are descendants from domesticated horses. I have not seen many of them, much less see them thrive in competition over the past decades.
Not sure your point on this? I agree with your statement - most people who are looking to adopt a feral horse aren’t aiming for upper level competitions. Feral horses survive based on traits that help them survive, not what makes them jump higher or with better form. They tend to be more efficient in their digestion, those “easy keepers”, smaller, often not “perfectly” conformed, etc. They tend to be adopted by people wanting pleasure horses, and occasionally there are some good ones that do go up the ranks
If you go through 20 top barns, you will find 20 different feeding programs. They can’t all be right, since there is only one set of numbers.
I’ve never said there is 1 right way to feed. Look at all the human ways of eating - Paleo, keto, Atkins, and more. But as a species, we have certain irrefutable requirements. As individuals, there are some different requirements for health, as well as different requirements based on what you do - the elite athlete has to eat differently in terms of macros than the weekend warrior.
But the fact remains that all horses (barring weird genetic anomalies) have the same requirements for micronutrients in order to not develop Big Head disease, or EMND, or white muscle disease, or certain DOD issues, or certain skin conditions (ie rain rot, scratches), or muscle problems (low selenium or Vit E or magnesium), or night blindness (vit A), and the list goes on
There are any number of feeding programs that can adequately, or optimally meet those needs. So yes, they CAN all be right, when they are all providing the same (relatively) amount of nutrients to all those horses. Look at any commercial feed, and you will find that probably 95% of them are more or less delivering about the same macro and micronutrients when fed at the recommended rates. There are some outliers that were developed for specific areas of the country because forages there tend to be different enough from “averages”. Feeds developed specifically for a lot of CO have no added Se for example, since most of CO has to deal with excessive Se in the forages. LMF has NW and SW formulas for some feeds because of regional differences in forage.
And I’ll go out on a limb and mention that there seem to be a huge number of horses with metabolic issues, which is more related to overfeeding than a lack of anything. Because “just in case” and “to make sure Dobbin gets everything he needs.” Just like with people, there are way way way more health issues in the equine population related to overfeeding than to underfeeding.
Absolutely agree. Contributing to that also is not knowing, or caring about, breeding horses with known IR or PSSM or HYPP issues which just get exacerbated by improper feeding. And we KNOW that a longer-term diet of high sugar feeds predisposes horses to developing insulin resistance issues, just like the same thing gets Type 2 diabetes going in people.
Back to the original topic, the OP wants to give her horse minerals to help with head shaking. What is your suggestion?
Magnesium deficiency is the most likely nutritional cause of head shaking. But there’s not enough information here to even have any idea whether it’s nutritional in origin. It could be teeth being irritated by the bit, it could be the poll or jaw needing attention and the actions asked of those structures while ridden cause irritation. If there was a recent rhino vaccination, that can trigger it in some horses. The first thing I’d try is a nose net. If it’s a photic reaction, that should help a lot. My guess is it won’t, as it sounds like the behavior is only while ridden.
Lots of options, magnesium being the major nutritional variable, and various chemicals (such as ciproheptadine) and supplements (ie melatonin) and others
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/MALA_STAVRESCU_BEDIVAN/post/What_key_studies_have_been_published_to_identify_Magnesium_oxide_works_as_a_calmer/attachment/59d62dca79197b807798c0c7/AS:351821114691586@1460892098247/download/57095979-Owner-Response-to-Treatment-of-Headshaking-Aleman-AAEP-2014.pdf
Since it seems to only happen when riding, my pet theory is that the horse’s head position has something to do with being symptomatic. I bounced a few ideas related to that off my vet, who just says no, but there does not seem to be a real explanation.
Seems like something cheap and easy to try though? I dunno, I like it when an easy answer presents itself :lol:
That is my bet too. Teeth, TMJ, poll out of alignment, head “on crooked”, even saddle fit impacting everything in front of it.
Some people don’t really get to see their horse often enough during the day to tell whether certain symptoms are also present during at-liberty times, especially if they never see them turned out (ie in the sun), or other situations.
But yes, the “when ridden” does make me want to get all the above things checked out asap.
Wait wait wait, the Purina ration balancer (Equalizer) that i’ve just ordered only has 12% protein. Or am I reading this wrong? http://equipurina.ca/en/products/lines/equilibrium/equilizer/
Higher feeding rate than our Enrich.
For example, the lower end of .18kg/100kg for a moderately exercised horse means .9kg for a 500kg horse. That’s a 1100lb horse, and 1.98lb - let’s call it 2lb. And personally, I’d feed more, about 50% more, to make it more like optimal nutrition. That puts the total nutrient value closer to our 30% balancers.
At liberty, a horse can drop it’s head to the ground and blow out to clear the nasal cavities as often as it wants. When it can’t, as in being ridden or shipping long distances, maybe there are issues. The frequency of horses getting URIs right after shipping long distances dropped when the big haulers started shipping horses loose in in box stalls rather than cross tied in stalls.
And what does that have to do with supplementing magnesium?
Supplementing would be an easy, cheap thing to cross off the list. I don’t know why you wouldn’t try.
Post 31 - I did not mention magnesium, I mentioned head position. I have no opinion on magnesium wrt head shaking.
And yet JB posted this.
Don’t you find that interesting? Doesn’t that spark some thought? Shouldn’t it? Wouldn’t it be worthwhile to try magnesium for a short time (2-3 months, maybe) to see if it would work?
Cheap. Easy. Why not try it?
Do whatever you want.
