It looks more like sweat to me. Not an “impression.” Geez indeed. Leave Charlotte alone. You armchair wannabes have tarred and feathered her into oblivion. LET. IT. GO.
45 Likes
Amen!
4 Likes
That looks like he was turned out in a halter and got sweaty from it. You can clearly see the other marks.
13 Likes
lol, “leave Charlotte alone.”
She’s a fantastic rider, and I wish her the best, but when you’ve willingly accepted that pedestal, I have zero qualms about discussing her or her most famous horse.
@enjoytheride his halters seem to sit far below where this mark is. It looks like sunbleaching around where the noseband goes, to me.
ETA: The discoloration at the corners of his lips is either lack of circulation or scarring. I’m voting the latter, seeing how thin that bradoon mouthpiece is and how it’s nearly pulled through his mouth at times. Once that scarring starts, it’s really hard to keep at bay - it splits open far easier than a non-damaged mouth because the scar tissue is tougher. My late mare came off the track with this.
2 Likes
It is actually right where his halter is sitting in the one photo in the post above.
Shrug.
It certainly looks like a sweat/wet line to me.
You (general) can really turn anything on any horse in a still photo into something catastrophic with a great story to go with it, if that is your goal.
18 Likes
I never said it was a catastrophe. But it’s there and the discoloration on his lips is there too, with no wonder on how that came to be.
There are no heros in the horse world at those levels. Some are better than others, but no one is on a pedestal (for me).
1 Like
This horse and this rider are most certainly NOT on a pedestal for me either. Not even close.
But I generally do not look for Zebras.
I can tell you that I dealt with lip, nose, and eye pigment loss on my horse at one time. I am glad I was not famous so people could try to blame it on something it was not.
I am also not saying that nothing bad is going on with this horse ever, I have no idea. But I am not going to believe anything that Dressage Hub says and base my further disgust on things expanded from their conspiracy theries.
26 Likes
Of the current 4 horses and ponies in my barn…
One has vitiligo and develops pink/light spots on the dark skin around his eyes and lips, which appear and then disappear throughout the year.
Another has light pink skin in the corners of his mouth despite having black skin elsewhere. He’s been retired for 9 years and I’ve owned him since he was 4 months old, so I can attest that it’s not from a bit.
And a third has a thin, barely there stripe (facial marking) right where a traditional noseband sits. Some would think the white hair was scarring from a noseband if they saw it in a photo and didn’t realize it the white hair has been there since this pony was born.
Finally, bridoons are often sized up by an 1/8 to a 1/4 of an inch to better accommodate the weymouth, and this can easily contribute to a visual “moment in time” appearance of excessive pressure on the bridoon, even if that’s not the case.
For anyone who spends enough time around enough horses, you realize that there is a multitude of innocuous reasons for certain “photographic evidence”.
To me, using images like this to say a horse is being abused just makes me question the experience of those making the accusations. Particularly when the images/videos are from DH. 
43 Likes
It has nothing to do with how much of it is pulled through his mouth (which is a lot more than 1/4", but whatever), and everything to do with how his cheek is bunched up against the too-tight cavesson.
Even with a correctly adjusted bit, you can get pigment loss. The pressure reduces circulation. Unless your horse never wore a bit, it can most certainly be from a bit.
Vitiligo has a totally different appearance than this. I’ve known several horses with it.
1 Like
And particularly when this horse is one of the world’s most scrutinised, photographed, patted, admired, and followed dressage horses in recent years.
People might not like / admire Charlotte anymore, but to say this horse was actively abused throughout his career to the point that his face was left indented and scarred - you are accusing both Carl Hester (who owns the horse) and Alan Davies (his long-time and much lauded in the UK groom) of actively allowing Valegro to be abused.
Charlotte and Valegro didn’t live in a bubble, where he was spirited away from view except for shows and appearances, all injuries polished and photoshopped away for the happy audience. He lived / lives at Carl’s yard, and was doted on by Alan for most of his career. Think what you will about Charlotte, but are we throwing Carl and Alan under the bus too, over a grainy few seconds of footage - with no background information - and a few photos where the horse may or may not have shifting rub marks on his nose.
Another point to consider is that none of us have ever had the opportunity of sticking our hands in Valegro’s mouth to see where his lips were in relation to his teeth. Perhaps he was the kind of horse that would have benefitted from bit guards, or his conformation meant that most bits would cause a “smile” due to short lips, or maybe he is just prone to cracked corners.
Of all the horses in the world to kick up a stink over their “care and treatment”, Valegro is farrrrrrrrrrr down on my list.
37 Likes
I’m not wading into the Valegro discussion but I wanted to chime in here because I have one like this.
One of mine had the shortest lips known to man… and a ridiculous parrot mouth. Just to get the bit to clear the lower teeth, you had to put 1.5-2 wrinkles in the lips! And of course, the horse liked the bit WAY higher in the mouth anyway, so we always had a solid 2 wrinkles, maybe 2.5. A photo of that horse in a bridle would NOT have made the conformation fault obvious, but some would have crucified me for gagging my horse with the bit. He was happy as a clam about it though!
I wouldn’t put a horse I loved into an UL program, myself. I think a lot of what is required to get a horse to that level is fundamentally unfair to the animal. If I was talented and rich enough to do it myself and control All The Things - like noseband tightness and turnout schedules and rider hands - maybe I’d consider it. But I’m not, so I’ll enjoy my happy healthy horses and also continue to block Dressage Hub and others like it from my atmosphere.
12 Likes
Doesn’t mean much. My guy has an indent on his nose where his halter does not sit and neither does his bridle but if you didn’t know his tack you would think it was from that.
1 Like
The more current photos I shared there is no hairless spot and no indication of scarring/thickening over his nose. That photo you shared of he and Carl looks to be quite old…look how dark headed old granddad is.
4 Likes
Thanks. You said it much better than I did.
12 Likes
I think believing that horses at the top-top of the sport have never had rough handling or questionable tack choices is a very pie-in-the-sky mindset.
5 Likes
On the flip side, isn’t saying that every top of the sport horse has had rough handling and questionable tack just as bad?
Nobody is saying that there aren’t top horses that haven’t been handled poorly.
17 Likes
Sorry, I’m going to say that most, as in nearly all, of them have.
I have no heros. There is no one on a pedestal. I don’t think these riders and grooms don’t love their mounts/charges. I’m sure they do. But if the difference between winning and losing is a couple holes on the noseband, they’re going to crank that sucker down.
2 Likes
If horses cannot be shown without cruelty or abuse, there should not be that type of show.
6 Likes
This discussion around a nick on Valegro’s nose is so weird. Carl and Charlotte show that their horses are allowed to be horses - albeit pampered ones - who get turned out with friends and are allowed to get dirty. I swear my own horses always had a new nick or two somewhere every week, if not more often. It could have come from literally anywhere, why just assume it’s from a tight nose band when there are many other potential options?
40 Likes
