Recommend bloodlines for timid ammy?

[NJRider]

[QUOTE=Eclectic Horseman;4153968]
FYI. Horse is three. That may change when he is strong, fit and full of beans. It is all new to him now and very interesting. He is basking in the attention and the newness of it all. Once it starts being work–or as Leena who posts here says “once the please bubble bursts”–things may change. Maybe not, but I’ve seen it happen many times…[/QUOTE]

That is why I went with a proven commodity-- his sire, dam sire, brothers and sisters are successfully ridden by AA and Junior riders. Looks and movement are nice, but these guys have a lot of happy AA owners in the midwest!

[cuatx55]

get a nice crabbit/polish arab x wb, many are out showing above third +. As long as they have a nice long hip you should be fine. These guys really seem to take care of the owner and average about 16h and can take a tall rider. They tend to learn changes fast due to the quick hind leg and really take to the work. I rode some WBs, but they tended to be too dull for me. I need a horse that is less work to ride and would GO on their own and still not kill me! Also I need a horse under 16.2 hands.

I have yet to see an arab or arabX that holds back the rider, usually its the rider slowing down the show…hahahahahah…they just get better and better. And they make great trail horses, at least the arabs I know/own do. But many arabs aren’t the ticket, you just have to shop smart.

It sounds like you have your mind made up, but I hope you have an extra 40K for what you want and look out of state.

In my experience potential is a murky area. Some trainers over sell a horse and others can’t see potential when its starting them in the face. Just ask multiple opinions, trainers can be wrong. Ask me how I know…sigh…it ends up costing the owner/buyer tons of money and frustration.

Buy what you like, not what the trainer likes. you will have the horse longer then the trainer, I can pretty much bet.

Keeping the horse quick to the aids and light is the trick to a good ride, not who the parents were. I see so many horses become pushy and spoiled over time. Its definitely a journey to build that relationship and takes years.

Just make sure you start with good feet and bone. after that its all gravy. horses all have potential, but if they are lame all bets are off! I

[Gontyna]

Another poster mentioned the good brains that the Caprimond horses produce. I have a daughter of Contucci (Hanoverian by Caprimond) who has a fabulous mind and character. There are a lot of Contucci’s out there showing well with ammy’s.

Good luck on your search!

[vestito]

I was surprised I hadn’t seen Contucci mentioned until now. I have asked several trainers and one “O” judge for a recommendation on a good minded quiet ammy horse. Contucci came up more than once.

I finally found my Contucci mare and she is VERY good minded. So quiet I call her my “old lady” horse.

Good luck on your search. It took me a couple of years to find my mare. I set out looking for a Contucci baby. Just when I gave up and bought a C -line Holsteiner colt, I found my mare.

[KatherineC]

During my search for a ammy horse that could be competative in the dressage ring and go on a trail ride I didn’t shopped bloodlines or breed. Temperment was my number 1 criteria. I wanted a horse that could live at my farm, not my trainers farm.

I ended up with an Oldenburg gelding out of Landor S (who produces more jumping horses and dressage horses). He has a good go button and is very obedient.
I googled info on Landor S offspring prior to the purchase and I read a comment that Landor S horses need to be ridden every day which did not match my needs. But my guy did not inherit that trait.

Like a previous poster said, every foal has a mother and a father. You really have to try each one that looks like a possibility and see how they feel.

[Plantagenet]

I with you, fixerupper

I agree that you made generalizations, but isn’t that what the OP wanted?

my generalizations:

W line Hanoverians (Weltmeyers in particular) IN GENERAL aren’t amateur friendly. I’ve owned 10 (and looked at hundreds) and have found that the Weltmeyer grandsons are usually easier than the direct sons.

Sandro Hit line can also be difficult. I’ve never owned one, but have turned down many. They can be especially hard to sit.

I think Donnerhall and Rubinstein lines are the bomb. There’s obviously variation, but day in day out these lines produce great rideability. I’ve owned over 30 with these bloodlines and haven’t been disappointed yet.

[Donella]

I second the Friesian idea. If you find a good one, you will never go back. Even though we breed warmbloods, our Friesian mare has the most wonderful, unique, dog like personality of any horse we have ever owned and she is the only horse that we have that will never, ever be for sale for any amount of money. She gives 100 percent ALWAYS. Her 3 yr old son is exactly the same way. They are fun, fun horses.

You will have to look harder though to find one with some ability to do the work.

[columbus]

Not breeder…trainer

I find this thread confusing. I think the post are appropriate if she were looking for a 3yo or 4 yo…then general breeds and stallions potential might be helpful but this poster is looking for a trained horse…a well started horse with the potential to be a fourth level horse for an amateur. I think you have some options. I would forget about individual breeds and look at individual horses. I would suggest going to the larger regional shows and look for the riders/trainers whose horses seem most likely for you…those rides that seem most in sync with how you want a horse to go. Talk to the trainers about the horses they have available. Ask where THEY might look for a horse for a rider like you. Leave your contact information. Think ahead of time about how you are willing to pay for direction to a horse. That way when they start talking percentages and dollars for their advice you know what you are comfortable with and can state what you will and will not pay for advise and referals.

You need to tighten your criteria as it is now so broad as to hinder your search. Think about what your goals are. Do you want to get your Bronze medal? Do you want to do ALL the training your self or do you use a trainer all along the way or do yu just do lessons a couple times a month. A person like you can expand their range of temerament if they have a trainer on a few times a month to keep a quieter horse lightly forward. To me that is the kind of horse you would be happier with, a horse who would be rather too quiet so you can hack about and be safe but with a few pro rides a month can be reminded to be more responsive and studious. If you would like to compete for National awards…and MONEY…then to get involve in the Arabian Sport Horse show world would be a goal. Find a nice part bred whose sire or dams enrollment makes them eligible for payback programs. I have a great grey 9 yo Irish Draught mare who fits your criteria but I dont think the breed or the sire is the issue, you need to refine your goals so they fit with the abilities of your trainers and the group you ride with…where and how often everyone shows or hacks out for pleasure. What would be the most fun for the next ten years. PatO

[Fixerupper]

@cuatx55;4154178

In my experience potential is a murky area.

Just make sure you start with good feet and bone. after that its all gravy.

I agree that potential is hugely expensive :). A 3/4/5 year old with big expressive gaits will outsell a really nice 7/8/9 year old who is doing the job but obviously won’t be going to the O’s.

Once when asked for my opinion on a young horse I told the gal ‘I think the ‘behind the hip - hock snapping movement’ would go away with proper training’…she said ‘but that’s what I like about the horse’ :lol:

Buy rideability not potential.

[Kyzteke]

@cu.at.x;4152496

I have only ridden a couple horses that I really loved. One was an Arabian, trained to PSG. He had the lightness and forwardness, but was calm enough for a beginner to ride. In over six months of riding him, I only remember one spook–and even then he was very controlled. The other horse was pretty much the same, although not as well trained.

Why not look for an Arab or Arab cross then? I find many of the well-bred, non-halter type Arabs to have great brains while still being forward.

A WB/Arab cross might be just what you are looking for! I have one (not for sale) who is big gaits, great brain, and loves to go. She loves to WORK as well. I know Rosenthal (Rubinstein son) has produced some lovely, lovely foals o/o Arab mares – perhaps search for some of them.

And I also have a Rubinstein granddaughter (all WB) and she is a cupcake. Likes going out on the trail, too! They’re out there.

Good luck!

[cu.at.x]

[QUOTE=slc2;4152950]
I would say forget warmbloods, Arabs, Thoroughbreds. Get a Fjord, Quarter horse or draft cross. Get a horse with smaller gaits, so the warmbloods are out.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your input, but I did say that larger gaits don’t really bother me. I could probably use some practice sitting them, but I am planning to start taking lunge lessons again anyway regardless of the horse I end up buying. I have heard that Fjords have some of the most uncomfortable gaits to sit–which IS important to me. And most of the QH’s and draft crosses I have seen just don’t have the potential I’m looking for (again, I’m looking for a forever horse.)

[cu.at.x]

[QUOTE=mvp;4153265]
By the way, don’t forget that the mare contributes at least as much-- both genetically and then socially-- to her offspring’s attitude. Anecdotally, some horsemen will say that she contributes even more than 50%.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for pointing this out. I was taking into consideration the dam line when I asked about blood lines.

[cu.at.x]

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;4155188]
Why not look for an Arab or Arab cross then? I find many of the well-bred, non-halter type Arabs to have great brains while still being forward.[/QUOTE]

He was a very EXCEPTIONAL Arab; believe it or not, a stallion, too–you wouldn’t know it unless you looked. I don’t mean to bash the whole breed, but I have ridden quite a few (I started out with an Arab trainer) and all but one were a bit…nutty, to say the least. I’m not saying there aren’t Arabs out there with good minds, but they are hard to come by.

[slc2]

The trouble is I think you are asking for an almost impossible combination - a young horse that won’t frighten a somewhat timid rider, but has great gaits and is very forward amd has a lot of talent to go up the levels. That is a pretty difficult combination to find. It’s something most amateur riders want, to one degree or another.

I just don’t think there are too many. Most talented, big movers that are forward ARE scary at times to a timid rider, and most younger horses (counting 6 as young) do stuff from time to time.

If you have to have a warmblood with great gaits, talent to go up levels, Rotspon, or American Dutch warmblood stallion Rubenstein, are favorites I know of. The temperament is often of that ‘amateur friendly’ type. But there are hot, difficult offspring of those stallions too.

The trouble is, a horse like what you want isn’t found by examining blood lines. What you’re looking for is a very unique combination of traits, that is basically what a trainer called, ‘God’s horse’. It isn’t found in any one breed or blood line. It’s an individual thing and a character and quality thing, and best found by looking with an open mind, at available individuals and trying them out, not by searching for individuals of a certain blood line. One of the kindest, safest, easiest to ride horses I ever saw was by a son of Jazz, reputed to be too hot and difficult and skittish for amateurs and I often am told his offspring are not ‘amateur friendly’ but are very, very talented and suitable for a more advanced rider.

The other thing of course is that if one is timid and working on solidifying one’s position, ANY horse can become ‘hot’ and ‘unpredictable’. It is just a part of one’s situation. If one is timid, any horse, no matter how easy, can become pushy and disobedient. Too, solidifying one’s position, sitting well, is a big factor in being able to react and discipline the horse.

Actually, I might suggest if you are in this position, to take lessons on quiet school horses and wait to buy a horse until your seat and ability to sit are stronger. Maintaining a horse’s training, any horse’s training and obedience, is difficult in this situation without a lot of supervision from a trainer who is there when you ride.

[cu.at.x]

I’m not expecting international quality, or even “9” gaits. Just something with a GOOD START (which the vast majority of non-traditional breeds do not have), a great mind, and the ability to progress past First level.

Also, it would be difficult to make accurate recommendations based on my riding unless you actually see me ride. I get your point and I’m not offended in the least, but you’re making the assumption that I ride at a certain level when I could be more competent. I think you would agree that even the most advanced riders still recognize the value of lunge lessons to refine their seats. And I will definitely be working with my coach, so it’s not like I’m going at this alone.

[MEP]

I’m in the group that suggests: Look for the individual, not the specific breed or bloodline.

In Bellingham, you’re not too far from a lot of breeders and trainers/dealers/importers. Last year, when I was looking, I used all kinds of resources including Dreamhorse (searching warmblood breeds and crosses in which I was interested) and breed registry sales pages, Region 6 dressage associations, Flying Changes and any other advertising option I could think of. I found my horse on a PacNW breeder’s page which featured horses for sale by the breeder’s stallions - the ad was for an older horse. I found that most of the breeders had young stock for sale, or horses that had just recently been put under saddle. Occasionally, you would find an older one.

I was specifically looking for keywords in all the advertisements: ‘quiet,’ ‘kind,’ along with age, experience, etc. Keeping in mind that people either intentionally or unintentionally exaggerate, I wanted to eliminate those that would obviously be inappropriate.

So while I understand your question about bloodlines, my experience tells me to look for the individual first, worry about bloodlines is secondary. In fact, what occurs to me is that you might be asking more accurately, ‘what bloodlines should an ammie examine very closely before buying because the reputation for this line is hot?’ Even then, I wouldn’t eliminate an individual from a reputedly ‘hot’ bloodline if the individual fits the description of what you’re seeking, and you’ve ridden the horse and like it. Keep searching all your resources and look for individuals that meet your most important criteria!

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=slc2;4155235]
The trouble is I think you are asking for an almost impossible combination - a young horse that won’t frighten a somewhat timid rider, but has great gaits and is very forward amd has a lot of talent to go up the levels. That is a pretty difficult combination to find. It’s something most amateur riders want, to one degree or another.

I just don’t think there are too many. Most talented, big movers that are forward ARE scary at times to a timid rider, and most younger horses (counting 6 as young) do stuff from time to time.

If you have to have a warmblood with great gaits, talent to go up levels, Rotspon, or American Dutch warmblood stallion Rubenstein, are favorites I know of. The temperament is often of that ‘amateur friendly’ type. But there are hot, difficult offspring of those stallions too.

The trouble is, a horse like what you want isn’t found by examining blood lines. What you’re looking for is a very unique combination of traits, that is basically what a trainer called, ‘God’s horse’. It isn’t found in any one breed or blood line. It’s an individual thing and a character and quality thing, and best found by looking with an open mind, at available individuals and trying them out, not by searching for individuals of a certain blood line. One of the kindest, safest, easiest to ride horses I ever saw was by a son of Jazz, reputed to be too hot and difficult and skittish for amateurs and I often am told his offspring are not ‘amateur friendly’ but are very, very talented and suitable for a more advanced rider.

The other thing of course is that if one is timid and working on solidifying one’s position, ANY horse can become ‘hot’ and ‘unpredictable’. It is just a part of one’s situation. If one is timid, any horse, no matter how easy, can become pushy and disobedient. Too, solidifying one’s position, sitting well, is a big factor in being able to react and discipline the horse.

Actually, I might suggest if you are in this position, to take lessons on quiet school horses and wait to buy a horse until your seat and ability to sit are stronger. Maintaining a horse’s training, any horse’s training and obedience, is difficult in this situation without a lot of supervision from a trainer who is there when you ride.[/QUOTE]

arh we speaking from expreince here slc2 that you have pointed out all these troublesome areas because you have found this to be warranted with the horse you brought last year
or is it from the little pony you are attemping to drive with

how many lessons have you done with your new mare ubella
and where are you in your trianing levels and have you done any show with her yet

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=cu.at.x;4156247]
I’m not expecting international quality, or even “9” gaits. Just something with a GOOD START (which the vast majority of non-traditional breeds do not have), a great mind, and the ability to progress past First level.

Also, it would be difficult to make accurate recommendations based on my riding unless you actually see me ride. I get your point and I’m not offended in the least, but you’re making the assumption that I ride at a certain level when I could be more competent. I think you would agree that even the most advanced riders still recognize the value of lunge lessons to refine their seats. And I will definitely be working with my coach, so it’s not like I’m going at this alone.[/QUOTE]

mate-- would you listen to me, speak with your trianer
ok, take a tip if your trainer cant perform a basic movement like the half halt stride or cant teach you how to do it - ask her/him to show you and then teach you
and explain what it does
then go to my helpful links pages which explains how to perform the half halt stride

then find another trianer who can, then when you done that ask them to advised you in finding your new horse as they truely will understand your abilities of a rider
and you be half way home with getting the right horse for you

then go look and and take them with you get them to ride it 1st so you can see for yourself then you have a go - then go back a few times if the horse is right
its not about paces or gaits as such it wether you click with the horse all the rest like gaits and stuff can be worked on - later

as you a timid rider dont say if your large or tall skinny or short but you want a horse that can carry you and work with you sometimes people over horse themselves by having a horse to big or the horse knows more than what they do which again having aknowable horse with a timid rider wont work as they will be to sharp for you to handle

what you want is what we call general all rounders here in uk
something you can handle - generally they are of snaffle mouth so thats a big clue for you to take on baord
2nd clue is the dont buck bolt rear or fart about with you
age is another point to take on board – but will say there are a few exceptions whereby a young horse can be ideal but the age range would be 8-15yrs
thats an age range thats been there and done and worn the t shirt type horse
general all rounders are a type of horse that has that extra gear if you move past your level your at now and into the next level the horse has the upper gears to do that

you perhaps want to look on 4- h clubs or riding clubs or usa pony clubs they will offer horses up that have done a bit – and also more often than not have the instruction there to back it up and instructors owner riders to also have the proper facilities in which to try the horse out in -

then make sure you get your own ppe from an independant vet from theres
this safe guards you from buying anything that might be possible extra costs in health issues - put a chq deposit on the horse till ppe done if fails then all you spent was the ppe
so you look for another in long run saved you money

then when thats all done make sure you insure the horse and also in transit from the yard it was from to the yard its going to ok

[Sabine]

good advice GLS! that’s pretty much it in a nutshell…unless you’re a pro- its about size and partnership and matching up and being a good fit that you and your trainer can work with…and on top of all- it better be nice and healthy!..not rocket science, just stuff a good trainer can handle for you…and help with a lot better than this board…as the trainer knows a heck of a lot more about you than we all do!

[LD1129]

I am an AA with a five year old Hanno who I bought when he was 4. He is by Delaurentis (DeNiro) his Dam is by Bordeaux (Bolero). He is wonderful I can hack out, not too spooky, shows, and is fancy (with my trainer on him :winkgrin:)

I would not worry about bloodlines and just try them out. I did not want to sit on my guy but he was sent to my barn for training and my trainer just told me sit on him. I took one ride and I was hooked. I had no idea of his actual breeding until I got his paperwork (he was branded) but it didnt occur to me to check out his breeding before I bought him. It just mattered that I was comfortable on him and he was sound ect.