Reevaluating feed program- tired of Purina. Looking for unprocessed feed opinions or other quality feed ideas.

[S1969]

@CCRAJFES

During my last meeting with our feed rep, she suggested feeding quite a few of our horses 6+ pounds of feed PER MEAL. Myself and several boarders are very nervous that our horses get this much concentrate all at the same time. Additionally, some of the horses are still underweight even with all the grain they receive.

Our horses get free choice hay throughout the day…

I’m looking for advice which:
-lets me know if there is a concentrate out there that allows me to feed less but is high quality
-is there a mix of unprocessed feeds you have had success with?

Going back to read this - I would think carefully about the horses that are getting “free choice hay” and concentrate and are still underweight.

How much hay is “free choice hay” - are they being fed together or separately? Do they tend to finish the hay or not?

Is it really “free choice” - meaning as much as they could possibly eat, or is it “hay during the day” (aka hay being put in stalls xx times/day.)

If you really have horses (perhaps older) that are getting as much hay as they could possibly eat, plus concentrate and are still underweight - they may need 6+ lbs of concentrate 2x a day. (It’s not really that much, e.g. for senior horses that can’t chew hay well.)

The key point would be making sure they are getting the right kind of concentrate, not necessarily the amount.

And yes, it might be expensive. Raising your rates might be necessary.

[DinkyDonk]

@Simkie

What a bummer thanks for sharing that–it’s been a few years since I’ve been in their footprint and I was unaware they’d changed hands.

Bought out by Alltech I believe. When I used to buy from them on a regular basis, you waited in line to have your feed loaded…now it’s like a ghost town–eerily quiet…I used to use their private label RB–fixed formula, everyone did great on it, reasonably priced–then the mill sold, and although they still listed all the ingredients, the ingredients changed (mostly the protein sources) with every batch. Disappointing to say the least. I used to go down every three months and pick up a 90 day supply. No more–have switched to going to Agfinity in Eaton and although not using a RB anymore, their single ingredients (alf pellets, flax and bp) are very clean, great prices, and loved by my hooved ones.

[DinkyDonk]

@greysfordays

I have a giant horse that is ulcer prone. We had good free choice hay, fancy cavalor feed, fancy platinum etc. Couldn’t keep weight, had no topline, was spooky, etc.

What’s worked best is a flake of alfalfa at lunch, a ration balancer, a supplement for the ulcers and camelina oil for Omega 3s. He is shiny the day you clip him, has a real topline and he’s in great weight. He’s still spooky, but no more than he used to be and the ulcers are gone. I think alfalfa is a great option, the horses like it and I just feel more comfortable feeding hay vs. concentrates.

I worked with a nutrition consultant who evaluated his body condition, weight and feed program. If you’re worried about your co-op, maybe find an independent consultant to bounce ideas off of.

It seems with my gelding, as he has aged (is also ulcer prone) digests simpler diets better than the “everything in it but the kitchen sink” feeds. Just my experience with my horse.

[sdlbredfan]

I have been a fan of Triple Crown Feeds for a long time, but have recently become impressed with some improvements Purina is making, especially the Ultium Gastric care.
I have no idea, just am throwing out something I remember reading awhile back, that a slow eater horse was actually being hassled by another horse. Is there any chance of this being a factor? It could be as simple as making sure he is not facing another horse as he eats, or having a Vet find out if this is a ‘gastric emptying’ issue? I will look up some possibly helpful links and add later. (I am guessing who some of you are - having some common acquaintances is likely - and major kudos to you for putting forth the effort! (If I still lived there I would want such a caring barn manager myself.)

[sdlbredfan]

If this was my horse, I would find out if the horse can eat alfalfa ‘fines’ - Standlee might have some available, bagged - or if not, I would want higher caloric density in lower quantity feed like Purina Ultium Gastric formula. It is a lower starch and sugar choice than some of the other feeds mentioned. Good luck, and keep us posted.

https://www.researchgate.net/publica…ying_in_horses

Oops, right after adding the below, I went back and read that one horse is missing some teeth. It is not implausible or impossible to assume some other teeth might now be causing trouble. Has EOTRH been ruled out?? https://www.midwestvetdental.com/eotrh-syndrome/

The thought occurred to me, what if the horse’s teeth are not ‘as ideal;’ right now as believed? Is. Dr. Bernie (Bernard) Fletcher, DVM, still practicing in the area? If I recall correctly, a couple of decades ago when I was in the area, he was the ‘go to’ guy for teeth, and I believe he is teaching equine dentistry somewhere now.

[sheltona01]

I took this picture of my horse this weekend, so you can see the level of care.

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10106761566214070&id=16920735&set=a.10101313950115400&source=48&ref=bookmarks

He has always been a slow eater as long as I have had him. 10ish years. Two years ago, he fractured one of his incisors. Hence the first lost tooth. This year it was one of his molars, which the dentist contribute to old age(26) . The root was just to short and it was wiggling and bothering him.

He is really not bothered by his neighbors in his stall. At this barn, he likes his neighbors. They can make all of the faces they want at him and he does not react or care. At the last barn, he was purposely placed next to a reactive mare because he is so calm. After about 2 weeks, she pretty much stopped because of his lack of reaction. In the paddocks, there is enough space for separate hay piles and he is turned out in the semi retired gelding paddock.

Hope this helps!

[S1969]

So, yours is not one of the older horses that is still underweight despite all of the grain being fed, even though you were sure the OP was referring to your horse?

I’m confused about your posting on this thread. The OP said that there were horses that weren’t thriving on the feed program.

In the case of your horse, if he’s wasting hay in his stall - use a hay net, feed less at a time, or cut back until it’s cleaned up.

As for the other horses - apparently some of them still have trouble maintaining their weight? Or maybe not, if your horse is the one the OP was referring to…so what exactly is the issue? How to feed within your budget? Usually raising rates is the answer.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@S1969 if you look again at the first post the OP is offering SEVEN (!!) choices of “grain” along with whatever supplements (I presume supplied by owners) to a barn of 20 horses, varying ages.
@sheltona01 is the only boarder who’s a COTH’r (apparently) who’s trying to fill in blanks regarding the OP’s original question. I don’t think the post pertains “only” to shelton’s horse.

So the exact issue is, how to simplify, meet the varying needs, and keep costs “reasonable”.

[Skyie1]

I like the M10 ration balancer by McCauley (http://www.mccauleybros.com/) as well as Hay Rite’s Performance Pellet (https://hay-rite.com/products.asp) base is alfalfa with rice bran, flax seed, soybean and coconut oil, plus vitamins and minerals. If you are just looking to add a good vitamin/mineral supplement, California Trace is the way to go.

[sdlbredfan]

@sheltona01

I took this picture of my horse this weekend, so you can see the level of care.

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10106761566214070&id=16920735&set=a.10101313950115400&source=48&ref=bookmarks

He has always been a slow eater as long as I have had him. 10ish years. Two years ago, he fractured one of his incisors. Hence the first lost tooth. This year it was one of his molars, which the dentist contribute to old age(26) . The root was just to short and it was wiggling and bothering him.

He is really not bothered by his neighbors in his stall. At this barn, he likes his neighbors. They can make all of the faces they want at him and he does not react or care. At the last barn, he was purposely placed next to a reactive mare because he is so calm. After about 2 weeks, she pretty much stopped because of his lack of reaction. In the paddocks, there is enough space for separate hay piles and he is turned out in the semi retired gelding paddock.

Hope this helps!

That is wonderful. I am delighted that my guesses were wrong!

[S1969]

@Obsidian Fire

@S1969 if you look again at the first post the OP is offering SEVEN (!!) choices of “grain” along with whatever supplements (I presume supplied by owners) to a barn of 20 horses, varying ages.
@sheltona01 is the only boarder who’s a COTH’r (apparently) who’s trying to fill in blanks regarding the OP’s original question. I don’t think the post pertains “only” to shelton’s horse.

So the exact issue is, how to simplify, meet the varying needs, and keep costs “reasonable”.

Yes I agree that the barn needs to simplify. I think most barns would offer 2-3 types of grain max, and would feed supplements but only if bagged/in Smart Paks. Unless it is a special care barn, perhaps a pricey retirement barn would identify, dose and feed any/all supplements for their retirees. But that’s not typical for the average boarding barn.

I realize that this doesn’t pertain only to Shelton’s horse, but trying to figure out why the OP isn’t continuing the discussion instead. Just a strange post in general. I’m still confused as to why some horses are still underweight - perhaps they are not getting the 6+ lbs of feed, and that was the recommendation of the rep to remedy the situation?

[costco_muffins]

I, too, offer free choice hay (in bale hay nets). I have found the following to be most cost effective while still meeting the needs of a wide variety of horses (hubby’s senior trail horse, fat hunter ponies, young OTTBS just getting restarted off the track, and OTTBS in full HJ work. We came up with this program with my vet. I use a 3 quart scoop, so that’s the volume I use when I consider price per scoop.

Free choice 50/50 alfalfa orchard hay

Triple Crown 30% for the medium keepers and horses in hard work who aren’t super picky (this is the vast majority). A 40lb bag costs $35 around here and has 15 scoops in it, so every scoop is $2.50. Most of the horses are getting 1.5-2 quarts or ~$2 per horse per day.

Triple Crown Senior for the picky eaters who complained and refused to eat 30%. A bag is about $30, which breaks out to $2 per 3 quart scoop. My two picky guys eat 6 quarts a day and this is their only grain. Each horse is $4 a day in grain. This is by far my most expensive feed, so I try to wean them off of it if I can.

Haystack Special Blend - 0-10 pounds a day especially in the beginning off the track to help them transition. I use this for horses who need more calories and don’t tend to keep appropriate weight on with just hay as well as the harder keepers to add calories without sugar or fillers. It is a steam bound forage pellet that is easily digested. Each scoop costs $1, as a bag of haystack is $15 and I can get 15 scoops per bag.

NorthWest Supplement - handful of a ration balancer for the fatties who simply need to have nutrients requirements met. This is only $0.40 a day and is what approx. half of my horses eat.