My horse uses his head and neck a lot when landing from fences. Unfortunately, this means I usually catch him in the mouth quite a bit. I’ve tried staying in two point longer (even several strides after), releasing further, and slipping my reins. Anyone have any exercises or tips to avoid catching him? I don’t catch him on the front or over the fence, just the landing side. I also have a defensive seat, which I’m trying to fix as well. I don’t want to slip my reins too much, especially during combinations. Any ideas?
Have you tried using plain reins, as opposed to rubber or rubber-lined? Helps you slip 'em easier. A good exercise for learning to do this is to have your trainer watch you jumping a down-bank; sit up as he takes off down the drop, and slip your reins as he goes. Wonderful workout for an independent seat, and it can save both your butts if he ever pecks, drop or not. Essential skill set, really! 
have you tried jumping grids with no reins, hands on a neck strap or mane? That would allow you to get the sense of movement you need to follow through, and feel how to separate your hands from your body at that point in the jump, without catching him in the mouth…
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You are coming back in the air too soon, before the horse has landed. This has been a life long problem for me.
You say you ride defensively – so you are probably behind the center of your horse’s balance. Since you are in a defensive posture, when you go forward you have to move your upper body quickly to get to where you want to be in mid air.
Since you are whipping your body forward, you never really balance in your jumping position. You go back as quickly as you go foward, hitting your horse in the mouth during the landing part of the jump.
Several of the things I have found that worked:
-
In midair, when the horse is at the top of the jump, go forward again. You will not actually be going forward, but the idea will keep you from coming back too soon.
-
Do not allow your upper body to come back towards the saddle until the horse’s back legs have both touched the ground. Many people think that “landing from a jump” is when the front legs touch down. Not so. The horse has only landed when all 4 legs have touched down. Only then does he take his first stride away from the jump.
This concept is sort of like the “well I got 1/2 a flying lead change – he changed in front but not in back.” Noooooo. Unless a horse changes in front AND in back, you did not get a lead change at all. There is no such thing as 1/2 a lead change. People forget that what the hind end is doing is just as important as the front end. But I digress. 
Another thing you can (and probably should be) doing is to GRAB MANE and hold on to it until you are cantering away. When you find out how difficult this is to do, you will become aware of how quickly you come back in the air. Try it and see.
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[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;7992798]
Another thing you can (and probably should be) doing is to GRAB MANE and hold on to it until you are cantering away. When you find out how difficult this is to do, you will become aware of how quickly you come back in the air. Try it and see.[/QUOTE]
Yup, raises hand. I vote neck strap, and it’s helped me to try to remain in a light seat (not forward) instead of being too deep and then having to throw my body to catch. And yes, it’s scary at first.
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[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;7992798]
You are coming back in the air too soon, before the horse has landed. This has been a life long problem for me.
You say you ride defensively – so you are probably behind the center of your horse’s balance. Since you are in a defensive posture, when you go forward you have to move your upper body quickly to get to where you want to be in mid air.
Since you are whipping your body forward, you never really balance in your jumping position. You go back as quickly as you go foward, hitting your horse in the mouth during the landing part of the jump.
Several of the things I have found that worked:
-
In midair, when the horse is at the top of the jump, go forward again. You will not actually be going forward, but the idea will keep you from coming back too soon.
-
Do not allow your upper body to come back towards the saddle until the horse’s back legs have both touched the ground. Many people think that “landing from a jump” is when the front legs touch down. Not so. The horse has only landed when all 4 legs have touched down. Only then does he take his first stride away from the jump.
This concept is sort of like the “well I got 1/2 a flying lead change – he changed in front but not in back.” Noooooo. Unless a horse changes in front AND in back, you did not get a lead change at all. There is no such thing as 1/2 a lead change. People forget that what the hind end is doing is just as important as the front end. But I digress.
Another thing you can (and probably should be) doing is to GRAB MANE and hold on to it until you are cantering away. When you find out how difficult this is to do, you will become aware of how quickly you come back in the air. Try it and see.[/QUOTE]
Thank you so much! Yes, I do my best to grab mane, but I still sit up too quickly. I’ll jump tomorrow and see how it goes. We may only be going training, but it’s too unfair for him to be caught in the mouth over ANY size fence. You rock!
I agree with Lord Helpus. You are opening up too soon.
It is common problem with eventers, and one I have been fighting most of my riding life.
Some of the things that work for me (and I do not always understand why):
1 Grab mane or neck strap, and hold onto it until AFTER all four feet are on the ground. That will help you know what it feels like to stay forward.
2 Put your stirrups closer too your toes (don’t ask me why, but it helps)
3 Stick your chin out, which keeps your eyes and head up.
4 Push your heels and knees down and forward on take off and all the way through landing
5 Push your hips BACK as you take off. Counter intuitive, but if makes you flex you hips in a TIGHTER angle (with your back more inclined) WITHOUT getting ahead of the horse, and makes it much easier to stay forward, not interfering with the horse’s head, all the way through landing.
6 Jump a grid with the reins tied in a knot, and hands out to the side.
I am not sure why you say you do not want to slip the reins in a combination. If the combination is straight (not a tight bend), that is the EASIEST time to slip the reins.
I agree, a neck strap is a life saver for both rider and horse! Mine is an old stirrup leather buckled to itself and reinforced with electric tape. It’s been a super helpful on my green ottb when he gets looky over a jump and goes BOING! It gives me the same feel of holding onto the reins but without yanking my horse’s mouth. I’ve been a mane grabber all my life but now I’m a neck strap convert
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[QUOTE=Janet;7992997]
I agree with Lord Helpus. You are opening up too soon.
It is common problem with eventers, and one I have been fighting most of my riding life.
Some of the things that work for me (and I do not always understand why):
1 Grab mane or neck strap, and hold onto it until AFTER all four feet are on the ground. That will help you know what it feels like to stay forward.
2 Put your stirrups closer too your toes (don’t ask me why, but it helps)
3 Stick your chin out, which keeps your eyes and head up.
4 Push your heels and knees down and forward on take off and all the way through landing
5 Push your hips BACK as you take off. Counter intuitive, but if makes you flex you hips in a TIGHTER angle (with your back more inclined) WITHOUT getting ahead of the horse, and makes it much easier to stay forward, not interfering with the horse’s head, all the way through landing.
6 Jump a grid with the reins tied in a knot, and hands out to the side.
I am not sure why you say you do not want to slip the reins in a combination. If the combination is straight (not a tight bend), that is the EASIEST time to slip the reins.[/QUOTE]
Thanks! I’m glad that they’re pretty easy fixes! I’d rather not slip my rains during combinations, technical questions, bending lines, etc. because I like to sit back and pick my horse up to help them through it. I’ll set up a few stand-alone fences tomorrow along with some grids. Thank you!
[QUOTE=Duckz;7993108]
I agree, a neck strap is a life saver for both rider and horse! Mine is an old stirrup leather buckled to itself and reinforced with electric tape. It’s been a lifesaver on my green ottb when he gets looky over a jump and goes BOING! I’ve been a mane grabber all my life but now I’m a neck strap convert :)[/QUOTE]
I’ve used old stirrup leathers as neck straps as well! It seemed to work decently, but didn’t help too much. I’ll try it again though 
Simple
but NOT Easy
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[QUOTE=Janet;7993191]
Simple
but NOT Easy[/QUOTE]
I was expecting much more difficult exercises and changes to my riding, so these are much better. Thank goodness! Thank you for all of your help
I feel your pain…
If the neck strap isn’t working for you, consider tying a ribbon or some yarn in your horse’s mane at the “appropriate” spot (ideally where you would push your hands for a nice crest release that will give your horse room to use his body). You can either just really work on getting (and keeping) your hands in that spot throughout the ENTIRE jump or use a grid so you can focus on you. I think the colored ribbon gives me a great visualization of where to put and keep my hands when I had a tendency to come back to the tack too quickly.
I like the grid because it gives me a chance to really work on me and feel multiple jumps in quick succession without having to do much with my horse in terms of steering. Good luck!
Are you my twin???
I have a defensive seat as well, and just COULD NOT get my hip angle to close over fences. My friend told me about an exercise she’s done a bunch of times growing up:
- Tie your stirrups to your girth with twine. This is FANTASTIC for working on leg position, and holy hell my legs were burning the first time I did it. Now that I think about it, I need to do this again…
- Wrap your reins around his neck. As in, each rein goes on the correct side of the neck, but you wrap them around and buckle them on the bottom of the neck. I wish I had a picture.
Do these things at the same time. It forces you to work on your position. Your reins are short enough that you will always have your hands in the right spot, and because your legs can’t swing back you are forced to close your hip angle. For about a month straight I did this every time I jumped, and it helped immensely.
I do not agree with those who suggested a neck strap. My take on this is that the OP is a good rider with a bad habit. A neck strap will slide back when the rider opens up her body. What she needs to hold on to is something that will not move, no matter how hard she pulls on it.
That is why mane is a better option.
OP, start over cavaletti --> raised cavaletti --> X --> vertical --> oxer. Then you will see when your habit starts to show itself.
Of course, since the lower body is a mirror image of the upper body, this fix will also require a lot of work without stirrups to strengthen your lower leg. :winkgrin:
The trick is not grabbing mane or strap, it’s NOT letting go of the mane or strap until the horse has actually landed and taken a stride. This will feel so wrong and you will fight it but if you don’t let go it will show you exactly when you are opening too early and stop you from being able to.
Try to sit deep and into your heels the stride before take off with shoukder back and stay there. The motion of the horse will fold you to the proper hip angle if you let it and just hold that mane.
Think the neck strap is better for beginners working lower or just on the flat because you can pull your hands and the strap away from the crest once you start jumping bigger. You may have a death grip on the strap but your hands are hovering over the crest instead of firmly attached to it, looks like you are strangling the horse, anchoring your hands to the actual horse by burying them in that mane works far better.
I had that problem too. Once watched MGE have a stumble 3 strides in front of a massive triple combination. Somehow she got thru. I asked her later back in the barn how the hell she got through the thing and she said “I couldn’t see a thing so I grabbed mane and kicked until he landed”.
Grab mane.
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See I disagree about the mane being better than a neck strap. Grabbing mane will work and helps you from not catching them in the mouth…I grab it ALL the time especially on green horses when I’m unsure what the hell they are going to do and I just want to stay with them.
But using a good neck strap is better training for the rider. You can and should grab it sooner and hold on to it the entire time and after the jump. You should be able to still steer and use the reins but it also lets you follow and release over the fence. It prevents you from balancing on your horse’s mouth and catching him in the mouth. You will feel when you are balancing on the neck strap and know that without it…that is where you would have caught the horse…and hopefully fix it.
There could be many factors why this is happening…from your leg position not being correct to give you the balance and base of support needed…to opening too soon, jumping ahead…falling back…not properly fitting tack…etc.
But in my experience, a neck strap works better for me when I’m working to undo a habit (from catching a horse in the mouth to picking at fences)…grabbing mane works as just a better fix to go with the horse in an oh crap moment. But I grab a neck strap more often in training because it is something I can grab several strides out but still ride my horse…just makes sure that I’m not over using my reins.
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Like everything else, the faults we can see are usually caused by those we can’t.
Look to your base of support and the core strength that produces it.
I remember when I finally got it right and stayed solid over my base letting the horse close the hip angle, I was really sore in the abs and very top of my hamstrings. It was enlightening.
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Much rather grab mane. I have little fingers though and futzing with a neck strap just wasn’t worth it. Not to mention an extra piece of tack. I think it’s a personal preference, but for me, grabbing a wad of mane much easier than the neck strap.
[QUOTE=goodmorning;7993653]
Much rather grab mane. I have little fingers though and futzing with a neck strap just wasn’t worth it. Not to mention an extra piece of tack. I think it’s a personal preference, but for me, grabbing a wad of mane much easier than the neck strap.[/QUOTE]
I have fairly thin one because I have smaller hands. I agree it is a personal preference, and I do prefer to grab mane…I just have found the neck strap better in the long run to break a habit because I make my self hold it longer and it motivates me to fix my habit so I don’t have to grab it
But for me…it’s almost always a core strength that then causes a balance issue…not so much timing one. If I’m opening too soon, I often am weaker at that time in my core so just not as physically able to hold it. Just doing some trot sets in shorter stirrups for a few days typically fixes me. But you really need the help of a good experienced eye to know what is the root of he issue.
