Reoccurring gas colic :(

[rcloisonne]

[QUOTE=Hermein;8159223]
…PS: I hang a slow-feeder bag of Bermuda hay, or whatever else grass hay I can find, in his stall for comfort-food whenever he’s in his stall/run.[/QUOTE]
Coastal Bermuda hay is high on the list of things that can cause colic. I can’t imagine feeding it to a horse with frequent colic episodes. Changing hays to “whatever grass hay I can find” is also a very bad idea for any horse. All feed changes, including (especially) hay, need to be made gradually.

While I’m not a Smart Pak groupie, I suggest you take Smart Pak’s recent quiz on management practices that contribute to colic. I’d provide the link if I could find it.

[Hermein]

rcloisonne–This isn’t coastal Bermuda*. AND, where I live, most horses live on alfalfa, foalhood to death. You have to search to find any kind of grass hay. It’s too hot to grow Orchard or Timothy. Teff grass is not economical for farmers to grow. There is some Sudan grown, which is not suitable for horses. I really do know to make feed changes slowly.

I have heard about problems with Coastal Bermuda, but I have no idea what the difference is between regular and coastal varieties. It would be interesting to know that. I wonder if anyone has an analysis of both or either.

Once upon a time, my two older Arabs developed gas colics, after never having had a single episode in the 15+ plus years in my care. Finally figured out that it was rice bran pellets that were at fault. They could eat rice bran without problems, but there was something in the pellets–maybe the betonite that holds pellets together–that was giving them gas. (They had no problems with other kinds of pellets, though.) They lived into their 30’s w/o further colic problems.

[js]

[QUOTE=rcloisonne;8160573]
Coastal Bermuda hay is high on the list of things that can cause colic. I can’t imagine feeding it to a horse with frequent colic episodes. Changing hays to “whatever grass hay I can find” is also a very bad idea for any horse. All feed changes, including (especially) hay, need to be made gradually.

While I’m not a Smart Pak groupie, I suggest you take Smart Pak’s recent quiz on management practices that contribute to colic. I’d provide the link if I could find it.[/QUOTE]

I’ve had more horses have gas colic on Coastal Bermuda then I would ever want. Had one horse that would get gas colic almost weekly. I will say, that it can very from batch to batch of hay. However, once we stopped feeding Coastal Bermuda and switched to Alfalfa the gas colic stopped.

While I won’t say all Coastal hay causes gas colic or any colic I can say from experience that it can, far more than I ever experienced. Since feeding Alfalfa or Orchard grass mix we haven’t had any issues. It may be more related to the nitrogen levels than the type of hay because we did have some batches of coastal that we fed with no issues. But not knowing which batch would cause colic wasn’t worth the worry or risk.

[SmartAlex]

[QUOTE=jenm;8158843]
Also, an hour on grass is a long time to be out for the first time, especially if it is during the day on spring grass.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I know if you are turning out a sizeable group an hour seems short because of the potential work to get everyone out and then play their games to get everyone back in when they don’t want to leave the grass.

I start with turnout for 20 minutes, and if that’s not possible, hand grazing to start with.

[Hermein]

Here’s some useful info on Bermuda grass forage. Good old google!

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=What+is+the+difference+between+coastal+Bermuda+grass+and+other+varieties+of+Bermuda+grass%3F

This is more specific: http://www.thehorse.com/articles/16207/impaction-colic-blocking-the-way

In particular: Coastal Bermuda grass (Cynodon spp.) common to the southeastern United States is known to elicit intestinal contractions around a mass of feed, causing more water to be compressed out of the material; this can lead to increased desiccation and firmness of the intestinal contents. Mature Coastal Bermuda grass has a high, non-digestible crude fiber content that increases its propensity to ileal impaction colic.

[Ambitious_Kate]

Any chance there is scar tissue and/or adhesions from the surgeries? That would be a question answered by the vet. If he says no, I would ask him to explain why there is no chance of something like that.

[snaffle1987]

give her a little nigh lox with AM and PM meals. that stuff works wonders

[2tempe]

[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;8160905]
Any chance there is scar tissue and/or adhesions from the surgeries? That would be a question answered by the vet. If he says no, I would ask him to explain why there is no chance of something like that.[/QUOTE]
Apparently large colon displacements are lower risk of adhesions, but according to my local vet, they don’t really know if there are any unless the horse has to be opened up again. But recurring colics can definitely be an indicator.
In the case of my mare, the second incision was a bit problematic due to weakness in the abdominal area resulting from first incision. She was sutured and had wire “holders” to keep the skin together. Given her history post surgery, its very difficult to believe that there ISN’T something NQR in there.

[sid]

[QUOTE=2tempe;8159623]
One of the questions I have asked vets is “which comes first - the gas build up or the displacement?” None of them really knows…
My mare is not normally a gassy horse - except when she has her “events”… And who knows why she got the enteritis - which is at the opposite end of the intestinal track…[/QUOTE]

Yes, this. It is possible also that the horse may have adhesions from a prior surgery or even an umbilical hernia surgery as a foal, that can cause this. Has the horse has a colic surgery in the past, or a surgery for an umbilical surgery as a foal? Unless the OP owned the horse from a baby, there’s no way to really know.

[Hermein]

This is just a continuation of posts 9 thu 12 regarding side effects of feeding psyllium along with supplements. Vet said she knew of no research regarding this, but had seen research saying it was ineffective to remove sand.

So I looked a little further. What I found that it is not recommended for HUMANS to use pysillium along with tetracyline type of antibiotics because the psyllium will delay the absorption of the antibiotic.* Another source said (paraphrase) that it would be “prudent” to take any mineral supplements separately from psyllium. The good news is that it negatively affects the absorption of carbs, so might be useful for diabetics (or IR horses). http://examine.com/supplements/Psyllium/

Bottom line, I think I will give his psyllium separate from the rest of the goodies.

Thank you, beowulf.

*I lost the cite for this–I expect it’s buried somewhere in my search history. If I find it, I’ll post the link.

[DQ01]

I’ve had her since a 3 year old, no idea about umbilical surgery. She has not had previous colic surgeries though. Adhesions have crossed my mine as well. How would you treat this if it were the case though? She is quite fat and out of shape, I’ve been trying to strengthen those core muscles.

I’ve been thinking about pulling her off of all grain. After surgery she was put on Step 6 and a probiotic. All 3 colics have been shortly after turn in after she’s had her grain and some hay.

[sid]

FWIW, I had a broodmare that could not eat a bite of alfalfa or she’d gas colic.

Have you tried a straight grass hay?

[DQ01]

Sid, I have not tried that. I’ll talk to the barn manager and see if it’s possible to get any or if I can buy my own just to see how my horse does on it. Thanks for the suggestion.

[keysfins]

[QUOTE=2tempe;8159623]
One of the questions I have asked vets is “which comes first - the gas build up or the displacement?” None of them really knows…
My mare is not normally a gassy horse - except when she has her “events”… And who knows why she got the enteritis - which is at the opposite end of the intestinal track…[/QUOTE]

In other horses, the questions could be “what comes first, the gas distention or the impaction?” The gas-distended gut can press on parts of the GI tract and prevent feedstuff from progressing through.

My horse had a surgical colic almost three years ago, with an impaction. (He also presented with gas.) After a five day clinic stay, and a long recovery, he came back great. (He is now 22.)

He was fine until last October, when he had a gas colic/impaction. Went to clinic, ran massive fluids and meds, and got him through. I honestly thought I would have to let him go, but we gave him enough time for the fluids and meds to work—a solid 48 hours on them, and he made the positive turn.

Then he had several minor gas colic episodes over the winter, and a more significant one in March. Back to the clinic! Treated again with fluids and meds, had a very positive response overnight (phew!).

Vet felt that several factors were in play, so we addressed each, because going back to his usual diet and management had been unsuccessful.

What we ended up doing was changing him to a complete senior feed mash, four times a day; minimal hay, soaked; and two supplements in addition to his usual SmartPak SmartCombo Ultra (probiotics, joint care and more) and electrolytes. His forage is in his Senior feed, and we give him enough soaked hay to keep him happy, about ½ flake 4-5 times daily.

First new supplement is MagRestore, which helps with gut motility amongst other good things.

Second is Arenus Assure, a psyllium product with pre and probiotics to address any hindgut issues. It is very soothing as the gut heals.

I also treated him for ulcers, not because we thought he had them, but vet recommended it considering his stressful clinic visit.

He is doing great, in full work, shiny, fit, comfortable and I hope to have several more years with him. He has done very well with the new feeding program, and loves his “Senior Soup”.

[Kyrabee]

My mare has coliced twice on cool weather spring grass.
she was only out 30-60 minutes and within 15 minutes…bellyache.
both resolved with watching, walking if crampy and a dose of Banamine.

I have seen a couple theories of why. One that this spring grass is higher in potassium which can cause temporary motility issues in the gut…leading to gas accumulation. The other is that the cool early spring grass is of course much higher in sugars.

I have learned my lesson. She does not go out if the grass is recently rained on and temps less than 70. From April until mid-June, if she does get grazing, she has a muzzle on…just to way slow down her intake but allow her some horses doing what horses are supposed to do time. She is normally dry lotted and only gets sporadic access to the grass turnouts so when she does get out, she can get pretty gluttonous.

I would start her out much slower on her intro to grass to give her gut time to adapt. yes, even an hour can be a problem.

Jingles that it was “just” the grass.

Susan

[DQ01]

Thanks Susan, that makes sense to me. I’ll get a grazing muzzle. I was going to put one on her when they were out on grass for a few more hours but clearly she needs one asap. For now she’s on a dry paddock but I’ll start hand grazing today.

keysfins, I’m glad you’ve got something great that works for your gelding! That scares me removing so much hay from my mare’s diet. I feel like I’m more leaning towards going back to basics with her, good quality hay and grass and no more man made grains and supplements.

[keysfins]

DQ01, I do feel fortunate that we found a workable solution. It was a huge change, to go from a hay based diet with minimal ration balancer, but the horse is doing well.

He does get some hay, but the complete Senior has all the forage/roughage that he needs. We just give him the soaked hay so he has something to work on between meals. He CAN handle a flake of soaked at a time, but I try to space out smaller portions through the day. I avoid the really stemmy hay.

And the hay-soaking tub provides tasty hay flavored water, which he loves. He stays well hydrated.

I hope you will find a solution that works for your horse.