I am genuinely confused as to how people who work outside the home 8+ hours a day can house train a puppy.
I don’t know how others do it, but when I worked outside my home, I came home at lunch to let my puppy out. I slowly started taking later lunches, until she could make it 8 hours. It’s not that hard or complicated.
[QUOTE=Kodidog763;8214377]
I don’t know how others do it, but when I worked outside my home, I came home at lunch to let my puppy out. I slowly started taking later lunches, until she could make it 8 hours. It’s not that hard or complicated.[/QUOTE]
It looks like you didn’t read the rest of my post, where I explained that to rescues “work outside the home but come home for lunch” is different than “puppy left alone 8+ hours a day.”
I am still curious to hear from people who were able to successfully raise a puppy while being gone 8+ hours a day.
Nope, I was home all day with cocker spaniel puppy, husband worked from home with collie puppy. I would imagine it would be much more difficult to housetrain a young puppy (8 weeks) with only a midday walk.
[QUOTE=Hampton Bay;8213480]
Sswor, I’m glad you found a dog. I’m in full agreement with your thinking on rescues though.
My two elderly Schnauzers passed recently. One at Christmas and one in June. I would love another Schnauzer, but decided I would prefer an adult dog since I have a young child. My two boys were well loved, with extensive histories with the vet for dentals, medication for seizures, various seizure emergencies. However, because my vet and I chose to stop vaccinating them for everything under the sun in their old age, I cannot adopt a dog. So either I bring home a totally inappropriate dog from the pound (all we have here are large breeds and Chihuahuas), or I get a puppy. I cannot spend $2k on a puppy however, so I would be stuck supporting the dreaded pet breeders who are “to blame” for the overpopulation. Meanwhile the rescue agencies continue to bemoan to anyone who will listen, including publicly on FB, about the lack of suitable homes and all the poos dogs they just can’t take in because no one wants to adopt.
I’ve considered lying and saying that I’ve never owned a dog, but then I would probably be denied for never having had a dog.[/QUOTE]
You need to find a rescue that understands the concerns in vaccinating older pets. Surely if the vet speaks to them, there are a few rescues who would approve you. I know I would have. Lying is what gets you in trouble.
[QUOTE=french fry;8214371]
I am genuinely confused as to how people who work outside the home 8+ hours a day can house train a puppy. An 8 week old can only hold it a couple of hours, tops. So what do you do if you’re gone 8 hours?
Whatever your plan is (dog walker, having a neighbor come by, taking lunch breaks to go home until puppy is older, temporarily working from home, whatever) EXPLAIN IT ON YOUR APP! If the rescue takes a total hardline stance without even hearing you out, find another rescue.
I volunteer with a rescue and everyone wants a puppy. There are so many slightly older (8+ month) young dogs that are either already fully house trained or fully capable of holding it for several hours at a time that are completely blown off and passed over, to say NOTHING of the dogs over a year old. :no:
Yet…guess what the return rate is on puppies vs older dogs. Puppies get returned like three times as often.Guess what the top reasons are? House training, crate training, separation anxiety.
I’m not saying working full time and raising a puppy can’t be done; there’s tons of evidence to the contrary. But have a plan and be prepared to explain it.[/QUOTE]
I think the problem is that the fact that somebody works outside the home is the disqualifying factor, without even asking about the house training issues.
It’s called vacation time. Pups develop fast, you don’ need to quit your job to raise a dog!
Barbara Woodhouse, acclaimed dog trainer, before whispering became the thing, suggests (for small breeds) a large enough crate with a piece of real sod for ‘the business’
That was well over 20 years ago…
Dog door helped me errorless housebreak train my last puppy in 10 days.
Rescues don’t like dog doors either.
I wonder if some people would feel better if some jerk had bought my puppy first; neglected it, dumped it, and then I adopted it.
[QUOTE=Hampton Bay;8213695]
Actually, the application to get a dog from an adoption group is more difficult than to adopt a child. I am not kidding. My stepson is adopted. My ex-husband and I were approved to adopt prior to me losing my job. So current hubby and I have both passed weeks of adoption classes, full background checks, and intensive home visits. But we cannot adopt a dog.
One of my dogs was 6 months overdue on his rabies. In those 6 months he was back and forth at the vet numerous time due to seizures and medication issues. The other, I gave him a rabies vaccine that I bought at the feed store, complete with reciept and tag. He too passed (hemangiosarcoma). County kill shelter won’t even let me have a dog now. Despite numerous vet bills showing that my dogs were cared for, I am now a “bad owner”. However, my husband administered his own rabies shots for years prior to adopting his son, and the state just asked for a copy of the reciept for purchase prior to giving him a BABY.[/QUOTE]
Doesn’t the law in Louisiana mandate that rabies vaccines be given by a veterinarian?
I totally, 100% hear people’s complaints about many rescues making adoption unattainable.
I would implore everyone on this thread who has concerns about how rescues operate to spend a few hours volunteering at a shelter or with a rescue. You will very quickly see a wide range of reasons why people surrender and return dogs. Maybe you will still disagree with many rescues’ criteria to adopt (I know I still do) but I would be shocked if you didn’t develop at least some empathy for the circumstances that made them feel their criteria were necessary.
I am typing on my phone right now, but I’m hoping to get in front of a computer and type out a couple of thoughts about how when a rescue denies you (particularly when you want a puppy) it’s not so much about you as a person/dog owner as it is that you fit the characteristics of the people who most return dogs to rescues.
Puppies are about the most adoptable demographic and if rescues aren’t selective, they often get the puppies back when they’re squarely out of the cute puppy stage and have developed a range of under socialized/destructive behaviors to boot. It takes a week or two to get a puppy adopted, while older dogs with behavioral issues can take months up to YEARS. In many rescues’ eyes, better to be a bit more selective from the onset by automatically disqualifying characteristics common to adopters that return dogs and have a better chance of getting it right the first time, rather than getting the dog back later and having it be nearly unadoptable.
^ Great point.
[QUOTE=Hampton Bay;8213480]
Sswor, I’m glad you found a dog. I’m in full agreement with your thinking on rescues though.
My two elderly Schnauzers passed recently. One at Christmas and one in June. I would love another Schnauzer, but decided I would prefer an adult dog since I have a young child. My two boys were well loved, with extensive histories with the vet for dentals, medication for seizures, various seizure emergencies. However, because my vet and I chose to stop vaccinating them for everything under the sun in their old age, I cannot adopt a dog. So either I bring home a totally inappropriate dog from the pound (all we have here are large breeds and Chihuahuas), or I get a puppy. I cannot spend $2k on a puppy however, so I would be stuck supporting the dreaded pet breeders who are “to blame” for the overpopulation. Meanwhile the rescue agencies continue to bemoan to anyone who will listen, including publicly on FB, about the lack of suitable homes and all the poos dogs they just can’t take in because no one wants to adopt.
I’ve considered lying and saying that I’ve never owned a dog, but then I would probably be denied for never having had a dog.[/QUOTE]
“I vaccinated as recommended by my vet, whom you can contact for a reference @ 867-5309”. Assuming of course that it is true. The rescue doesn’t have to agree with your vet’s recommendations, if they did my rescue would never adopt to anyone using Banfield.
[QUOTE=Alagirl;8214422]
I think the problem is that the fact that somebody works outside the home is the disqualifying factor, without even asking about the house training issues. [/QUOTE]
So, someone has actual experience where “working outside the home” disqualified them? I find that hard to believe - but as was said before - if you have a plan for mid-day walks/dog day care/dog walker…tell the rescue! If the only thing they know is that you “leave at 7:30 and return at 6” then who can be surprised that you would not be approved to adopt a puppy?
[QUOTE=LauraKY;8214427]
Doesn’t the law in Louisiana mandate that rabies vaccines be given by a veterinarian?[/QUOTE]
I agree on both points here - if rabies is mandated by law to be administered by a vet, and you don’t get it…that’s a tough thing for a rescue to overlook. If you can’t give it for some reason, there are options - you could have your vet titer for it, for example, have a letter from the vet (or reference the vet practice).
My vet just vaccinated my 14 year old dog for rabies…his exact words were “well, it’s never a problem…until it’s a problem…and then you always wish you had that rabies vaccination” I remember the story here on this board where someone’s unvaccinated, elderly dog acted strangely, bit her, and then died. That was enough for me to get my overdue old guy to the vet.
I am sure that many rescues do set their standards too high, but I think a lot of them are just simply trying to avoid the revolving door of unprepared owners - especially for puppies. And who can blame them.
I volunteered for a while with my breed rescue and can tell you that people are weird. One family wanted to adopt two “runners” – two out of state dogs that had been on the lam for 6 weeks together refusing to be caught. The rescue wanted to separate them and place them individually because they thought together they were a huge flight risk.
One local family wanted them both and didn’t have a fenced yard. They “trained” their other Brittany to stay by the house, and were so pissed that we didn’t trust them to do it with these two guys as well. And, they wanted us to transport them from 8 states away. Um. No. 
Their parting words to me “you know we’re just going to get another one anyway.” Sigh.
so do you have your new puppy yet? pictures?? 
[QUOTE=S1969;8214572]
So, someone has actual experience where “working outside the home” disqualified them? I find that hard to believe - but as was said before - if you have a plan for mid-day walks/dog day care/dog walker…tell the rescue! If the only thing they know is that you “leave at 7:30 and return at 6” then who can be surprised that you would not be approved to adopt a puppy?[/QUOTE]
You can believe it or not but yes, this was my experience so forget it with the rescues. I was very clear about describing being able to come home at lunch and/or take my dogs to work with me and/or my retired mom would do doggie day care. Didn’t matter. Rescue wanted “someone home with the puppy during the day”.
I had a much more positive experience buying a puppy; add to that having a better chance of the dog actually being the breed mix I want, and I have no reason left to ever work with a rescue.
Rescues can look at everyone as if they are unfit owners just waiting to happen, and have stringent standards all they like, that’s their prerogative. But I’m a fit owner, not a revolving door, so I have no qualms about buying from an Amish BYB. I’m glad they breed the mix I want. If they didn’t, I might not be able to get another world’s most perfect agility dog.
Yes I have him and he’s perfect
I do not know how to put pics on coth without making my facebook public.
[QUOTE=Sswor;8214714]
I do not know how to put pics on coth without making my facebook public.[/QUOTE]
I think if you right click the picture and click “copy image url” and paste it into the post, it should work. I might be wrong though …worth a try, I would love to see a photo of the little guy.
I don’t think anyone is arguing that rescues shouldn’t screen (at least I’m not), but I think they are using poorly written “applications” to make knee-jerk rejections for too many applicants.
If the rescue is concerned that someone won’t be able to house train a puppy while working full time. ASK what the plan is. Don’t ask if they work full time, or what hours they work, and assume they are too stupid to have a housebreaking plan. If your application asks that potential puppy adopters who work full time to provide an overview of how they will housebreak the puppy while working, I’m sure you’ll get “I have vacation I’m going to take for the first X week(s)” or “I work x miles from home, so I come home mid-day” or whatever that will satisfy the requirements. If the response is “Wait. What? They don’t come housebroken?” Then sure, point out that a puppy needs a certain level of care and ask if they might be interested in one of the many already housebroken dogs you have available.
I personally know someone who was rejected because they have a fenced yard. I couldn’t believe it, but my friend forwarded the response to me. To that particular rescue a fenced backyard = dog being left alone outside all the time. That is completely ridiculous. Again ASK the question. If a rescue wants to know if the dog will live inside or outside ASK that, don’t ask if they have a fenced backyard and make an assumption.
I fully expect a rescue to do their due diligence and make the best effort to place a dog or puppy in a situation that has the greatest chance of success, but I don’t think that is what happening now. At least not with the rescues I’ve had experience with.
[QUOTE=Sswor;8213631]
We are never going to put a dent in the pet overpopulation problem. People want puppies. Dogs die. New puppies are always going to be needed. Frankly I’m glad none of the BYB legislation that rescue people propose from time to time ever got passed. There is nothing wrong with cross bred dogs aka “indiscriminate” breeding. Can you imagine a world where you had to pass a more difficult and rigorous testing to get a puppy then to get a driver’s license? Or a dog had to qualify to reproduce like a wb breeding inspection? Ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
I would be a lot less upset with byb if they sold puppies with a contract, providing life time support AND a take back clause, so buyers could return the dog to the breeder instead of dumping them in a shelter.
I have yet to hear of one that was willing to do that though.
[QUOTE=S1969;8214575]
I agree on both points here - if rabies is mandated by law to be administered by a vet, and you don’t get it…that’s a tough thing for a rescue to overlook. If you can’t give it for some reason, there are options - you could have your vet titer for it, for example, have a letter from the vet (or reference the vet practice).
My vet just vaccinated my 14 year old dog for rabies…his exact words were “well, it’s never a problem…until it’s a problem…and then you always wish you had that rabies vaccination” I remember the story here on this board where someone’s unvaccinated, elderly dog acted strangely, bit her, and then died. That was enough for me to get my overdue old guy to the vet.
I am sure that many rescues do set their standards too high, but I think a lot of them are just simply trying to avoid the revolving door of unprepared owners - especially for puppies. And who can blame them.
I volunteered for a while with my breed rescue and can tell you that people are weird. One family wanted to adopt two “runners” – two out of state dogs that had been on the lam for 6 weeks together refusing to be caught. The rescue wanted to separate them and place them individually because they thought together they were a huge flight risk.
One local family wanted them both and didn’t have a fenced yard. They “trained” their other Brittany to stay by the house, and were so pissed that we didn’t trust them to do it with these two guys as well. And, they wanted us to transport them from 8 states away. Um. No.
Their parting words to me “you know we’re just going to get another one anyway.” Sigh.[/QUOTE]
Some people should only own a goldfish. Or a jellyfish.
[QUOTE=S1969;8214572]
So, someone has actual experience where “working outside the home” disqualified them? I find that hard to believe - but as was said before - if you have a plan for mid-day walks/dog day care/dog walker…tell the rescue! If the only thing they know is that you “leave at 7:30 and return at 6” then who can be surprised that you would not be approved to adopt a puppy?[/QUOTE]
you read the OP?
It’s not the first time I heard it either.
Along with the yard fence, neither option is acceptable apparently.
Okay, here are my super long musings on adoption restrictions and adopting puppies specifically.
I primarily work with a rescue that operates more like your average county shelter - i.e. our application process is not as stringent at some and we do same day adoptions. This is the “high volume” adoption model and it is hotly contested. In essence, we don’t wait for the best home that we could imagine for the dog, but rather we adopt out to the first good (by our standards) home that wants the dog.
In theory, I love this. The dogs average only a week or two with us before they’re off to their new lives - there’s no spending a year and a half with a foster and getting extremely attached and then being uprooted. And, even more importantly, we are able to help so many dogs! Our return rate is not significantly higher than the rescues that take weeks to process applications and matchmake the dogs with the perfect homes, which lends credence to the idea that the uber-strict regulations some rescues have aren’t really preventing returns and may in fact be discouraging good homes.
That said, I am a foster. Whether I have the dog for two days or two weeks, I become emotionally invested, learn the dog’s personality, and know what I would consider the dog’s ideal life to look like - family with kids, other pets, only pet, will laze around all day while adopter is at work, may not do well if everyone is gone 8+ hours a day, etc. It can be really hard when the first approved adopter for your foster dog does not match up what you envision for that dog’s life. You are tempted to beg the rescue to wait until someone more appropriate comes along.
There have been two specific times recently when my gut said that although the adopters would be adequate dog owners, they would not be ideal for the dog I was fostering. Both adoptions went through and one dog is happier than I could have ever imagined him - I really thought he would not do well without the companionship of another animal or a family to be home a lot, but his young single owner completely dotes on him, takes him everywhere except work, and he is much happier than I ever imagined he could be. I’m so glad I didn’t attempt to block the adoption!
The other one, on the other hand, is not going well. The pup is 4-5 months old and was very timid and undersocialized when I got him. After having him for about a week, it became clear that he is a genuinely friendly, curious, happy dog - just timid and needing some time to come out of his shell with new people/places. We explained this extremely thoroughly to his adopters, who despite being inexperienced and overenthusiastic (my “gut feeling” concerns) assured us that they were not in any rush with him, they didn’t need a goofy golden retriever-like dog anyway, they were willing to work with a trainer if needed, etc.
Unfortunately, his adopters have completely disregarded the advice that the rescue gave them about letting him open up in his own time and have forced interactions with them and other strangers that have resulted in him developing some pretty serious behavioral issues. The writing is on the wall - we are going to have him returned to us eventually and instead of a timid puppy we are going to have a resource-guarding dog with separation anxiety that won’t let any strangers into his home without barking and growling. Try rehoming THAT.
So…I don’t know what the takeaway is there? That it’s a crapshoot no matter what? That my data sample is too small? :lol:
Re: puppies specifically, though, there is definitively a “type” that returns puppies, and someone who a. ONLY wants a puppy b. ONLY wants a certain kind of puppy c. ONLY wants a certain gender of puppy d. is gone 8+ hours a day e. plans to use a doggy door to house train falls squarely in the demographic of people who return a puppy to us with one or more of the following issues: separation anxiety, impossible to house train, destructive inside/outside the house, under socialized, barks/growls at any new stimulus.
Puppies are SO EASY to find homes for, even if you’re being picky. Adolescent dogs with behavioral issues are SO HARD to find homes for. It’s really, really not personal.
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