Responding to Inside Leg and Standing Up

[Scribbler]

@izzyeq

we have. my trainer says while he may not 100% understand lateral cues, she thinks he understands what im asking about 95% of the time but chooses not to obey due to poor training by his previous owners (the ones who broke him). i should have asked, what exercises can i use to strengthen my horse’s understanding of lateral cues as practice. we also do serpentine work and practice staying on quarter line just using leg aids to ensure straightness

Your good training should outweigh his previous poor training.

When a generally agreeable horse “choose not” to do a simple move like lateral, especially only to one side, it’s a good sign that he has a physical impediment of some sort.

When I said go back to basics I meant in hand work with an eye to seeing how and where he is blocked stiff resistant. Teach the shoulder in set of moves starting with turn on forehand bent away from.the direction of travel ,before you try the half pass set of moves bent towards the direction of travel, including turn on the hind/walk pirouette. Make sure you are not over bending him and blocking the motion.

Can he do a leg yield from quarter line to rail at walk trot and canter? Both directions? That’s basically what you really need to start with.

[fivestrideline]

Some ideas to play with:

• confirm that lateral work. TOF, TOH, LY, baby SI and all that. Can he do them all at the walk? Trot? If you have access to a good dressage trainer or clinician, this is the time to invest in that kind of supplemental education.
• your position and biomechanics. You have to help him stay upright by staying in the middle of him. Learn about your seat aids and balance and body awareness. Again a good dressage instructor is great for teaching you about the influence of your seat, and if you’re brave some time riding bareback can force you to sit up or fall off
• transitions. Start by practicing those transitions between and within the other gaits! All this will build his hind end and balance, and help with your half halts. Then, if he can’t canter a turn in balance and wants to fall in, don’t canter a ton of circles. Do transitions in and out of the canter on the long side, make them prompt and no-fuss in both directions.
• square turns. Instead of zooming around a curve, start making corners - two poles set at 90 degrees in the corners can help visualize this. Use your lateral work to really push him deep into the corner and square off, starting at the walk. This helps create awareness of the shoulders and haunches, and is great for the inside leg-outside rein connection.
• 55 jumping exercises for horse and rider is a book with GREAT stuff, diagrams, all that. And it starts with poles, so you have tons of material to work with.

@izzyeq

while he may not 100% understand lateral cues, she thinks he understands what im asking about 95% of the time but chooses not to obey due to poor training by his previous owners (the ones who broke him).

This is nonsense. Horses don’t “choose not to obey” in this context - your job as his rider is to install the training YOU want. If he’s not doing what you think you’re asking, that’s on you to figure out why and address it. Maybe the colt starter didn’t train him the way you’d like, but that just means you get to start from the beginning and install the buttons you want.

Invest in some dressage lessons. Slow down and make sure all your building blocks are in place. GOOD eyes on the ground are more important right now for you two than ever.

[fivestrideline]

@Scribbler

Your good training should outweigh his previous poor training.

…

Can he do a leg yield from quarter line to rail at walk trot and canter? Both directions? That’s basically what you really need to start with.

Well said and way more concise than me

OP, I have a feeling this may all sound very dressage-y to you. Dressage is just flatwork, and any discipline you choose will need it. I find that really good H/J trainers can basically train a rider to 1st/2nd level dressage, but there are plenty out there that cannot do a leg yield let alone teach one. That’s why cross training with a dressage coach that does GOOD work with green horses and riders can really get the wheels underneath you.

[TwiSedai]

Agree with all of the above. Only popping in to add that I find thinking “leg yield out” through corners helps both me and my horse step into the outside and balance better, along with asking for some forward as you come out of every corner.

[punchy]

I don’t want to assume anything, so… does the horse understand bending? In that you stretch and teach that it’s head and neck can flex separate from the shoulder, if that makes sense? Speeding up and falling in on the turn sounds to me like a horse who is stiff and doesn’t understand that—where it’s head goes, it’s shoulder wants to follow. So I would do bending exercises at the walk—asking for bend inside then outside—to teach that head and neck and shoulder are separate, and to soften the horse. If that makes sense.

[atr]

Also, think about how you are using the inside leg and where you are sitting. If you want to stand him up on that inside shoulder, make sure you are sitting up straight in the middle of his back, equal weight in each seat bone, and think of scooping upwards with that inside lower calf, heel and foot. (Careful with this if you wear spurs.) You are just trying to get him to think upwards on that inside aid not necessarily send him more forward.

[Angela_Freda]

@izzyeq

what exercises/things can i do to teach my horse how to move off of a lateral leg cue and/or stand himself up (especially through corners)? my horse falls in no matter how much i do. we’ve worked on lateral movements like leg yields and such but nothing seems to help him. his instability and speed (caused by the falling in) make me uncomfortable in his canter and that’s obviously something i want to remedy. please help!!

The way I’m reading your comments, it seems like you think this training is a one and done thing.
Conditioning an equine athlete such that they can carry themselves, and then also a rider* is a process that requires time, attention to details and consistency. And then polishing.

There are lots of great suggestions here, and exercises for both horse and rider. But they take time, and need to be practiced as part of a program.

*And the horses ability to do so will vary dependant on the riders ability to carry their own self as well. The horse will improve as the rider improves, and/or with riding from a more accomplished rider.

[BrownDerby]

A simple way to strengthen the horse’s legs equally is to post on the inside diagonal, especially through corners.

[Angela_Freda]

An article you might like

Keep the Rider's Inside Leg Honest with Courtney King-Dye

[Bending_Line]

Oh goodness–you need inside bend to move the shoulders out, not counterbend. A little inside indirect to create the bend, without crossing over the neck, and a little outside opening rein (pretty loose) to give the shoulders a place to go. At the canter, per your previous post, your leg needs to get stronger–strong enough that you can use your inside leg (gently) but timed effectively–to squeeze and release as you approach the corner. I don’t think your leg is going to be stable enough to do this effectively till you learn to stand up off his back and get your weight out of your full seat into your base of support.

[LiveTheDream]

Many posters have provided great suggestions and I incorporate similar methods frequently. What works for me depends on the cause of the problem. Assuming it’s not a physical issue such yanking their back out or teeth needing to be done, contributing factors could be due to rider and/or the horse.

IME it’s easier to ride a horse both straight and on a bending line if they’re using themselves properly. But if I lock or drop one of my hips, the horse tattles. If I use my outside hand inappropriately, they tattle. If I have trouble sorting it out, I might use a checklist similar to CBoylen’s. That may mean I have to pull my stirrups to rule out my crookedness. Or for a horse with plenty of strength and ample training, work “long and low” to make sure the horse is working appropriately. (To me that means loosen up any tightness in the back to so it’s easier to lift the back, make sure there’s sufficient impulsion, they’re reaching for the bit, working inside leg to outside rein, etc.)

Then I go back and try again. I want my horse driving from the HQ through the back and up through the shoulder. So if I want “more” when on a circle, I apply a little inside leg, the horse should give more power, lift the rib cage, and the bend (and energy) is subtly controlled by the hand. If I’m still getting a flashing red light, then I do more trouble shooting.

As already mentioned by others, this requires strength from both horse and rider. And if one or both could use improvement, it’s like anything else, build it in steps. Some horses and people build muscle and endurance quickly, others more slowly. And if there are training holes, address them (as you’re trying to do).

Let us know of your progress. It’s an incredible feeling when things when things start to click. Happy riding!

[AllSport]

Sorry didn’t read everyone’s responses but I had a horse that was rather extreme in this due to being physically weak on one side. He was fine one direction but dropped his shoulder HARD to the inside when we’d go the other direction, even on straight lines. He’d drop and try to turn in and break stride. He was a big strong horse that didn’t care much about tiny humans. I don’t have a strong dressage background but I found FOR HIM, that if I had an exaggerated open outside rein, while supporting with the inside rein, and a very independent seat and supportive legs, we could hold it together. If we held it together for a few strides–reward!! Every ride I asked for a bit more (reward!!) and eventually he built up the strength to hold himself together in that direction and I didn’t have to feel like I was a juggling clown to keep him balanced. It was awesome once we got through it.

[HipNo34]

Can you or someone explain this from the article a little differently? When she says “in” and the elbow rotating like a crane, I’m taking that to mean your elbow is out and your inside hand is toward your navel? [Turning and bending to the left is something I’m struggling with right now; we feel stiff that direction so I’m reading this with interest] – thank you!

“For this reason, to make the inside leg work, I often ask students to hold their inside hand in all the time. Be sure to not pull the hand back, only in. It should rotate like a crane with your elbow as the lever.”

[CBoylen]

Other way round. Your elbow is toward your body and and hand in- towards the inside of the turn/circle/ring.

[HipNo34]

OH!

Thank you!

[stargzng386]

Lots of great suggestions here. My ottb has arthritis from racing. The very first sign that his hocks are sore is leaning in the canter. Just something to keep in mind with him more training, position, exercises don’t help until he gets his hocks injected then he’s magically much straighter.

[Jackie_Cochran]

I was reading somewhere how, when the horse walks in a circle that the horse’s spine still moves noticeably in reaction to the drive of the horse’s hind leg. I think it was when the outside hind pushed that the spine made a bulge to the INSIDE of the circle.

I have never gotten much of the desired reaction to using my inside leg as an aid for a turn except as a cue for the TOF. So I thought that if the spine bulges out into my inside thigh maybe I could improve my circles by using my inside thigh as an aid when the horse’s spine pushes against it.

My next lesson I discussed this with my riding teacher. She said to go ahead and try it. So I did, without reinforcing aids at first, and lo and behold the horse actually yielded his back and rib cage to the turn. The results depended on how strongly I braced my inside thigh against the horse’s bulging spine, if I did it too hard I got a turn on the hindquarters without any reinforcing lower leg or hand aids. If I braced more lightly I got a more gradual turn. I am still working on calibrating the strength of my inside thigh to the type of turn I desire. Right now I give the aid, horsie eventually “says” “is that an aid?”, yes it is an aid, and then the horse turns. Unfortunately at first I have to brace harder against the spine, so when the horse finally obeys it ends up being a TOH.

So I am working on being able to use this aid with sensitivity and discretion until my body learns exactly how to use it for the results I desire.

Nowadays I do a lot of going around the jumps at a walk. Between one aid for a turn and the next aid for a turn I change my aids according to what I feel from the horse. Yielding the outside rein when the horse is tracking up is my favorite, my outside lower leg at the right time usually works if yielding the outside rein does not work, then I might work on the position of my seat bones in the saddle, and if the horse is still resistant in his body I do the inner thigh aid.

I always tell my riding teacher which aid/aids I am using so she can compare the results. She seems equally as pleased with all of them as the horse does the turn without resistance or excitement.