restrictions on horse adoption?

[B_and_B]

There is a reason I went and bought a companion pony…not only do I not care for the rules about what you can do in the future, especially the 24/7 turnout and the ‘no showing’ rules (ironically, I don’t show and do 24/7 turnout!), but I also don’t care for the third degree on my employment and relationship status. I seriously thought about a rescue near me, they had a couple of horses that looked on paper to be a good fit…and then I found at that in addition to the usual (including home visits) they wanted me to come visit the horse a minimum of 5 times before they would determine if they liked me…yeah, no.
The companion pony cost the same as an adoption fee at a rescue and I had her in less than a week. She’s awesome.
Are there good rescues? Yes, and they are needed. But, all too many have gotten so restrictive that they are harming their market.

[kande04]

@HungarianHippo

When I talked it over with the local rep she said “it was the national contract and we can’t change it but honestly, we trust you and are not going to do anything to enforce these restrictions.” I took them at their word and it all worked out fine.

This is consistent with my experiences with rescues. They have all these restrictions but they seldom enforce them, so what many adopters do is just lie on the application, get the dog or cat or horse, and then do whatever they want with it.

I liked having the option of bringing the horse back to the rescue if it didn’t work out, but then realized that I could have found the same kind of home for it myself ,with the same kind of contract, and would have done a much better job of following up on it after it was re-adopted.

That, and the horse was worth a lot more after we put considerable training (both pro and non-pro) into it, but we got nothing back, and it cost us our adoption fee and transportation, as well. So after that experience we most definitely will not be adopting from a rescue again.

[SonnysMom]

@Guilherme

IMO the entire “rescue” model is deeply flawed.

Horses are property. They are “chattels,” personal property. We don’t “rescue” property we buy it or lease it. With real property we have lots of rules and some are quite restrictive. With personal property there are seldom rules on subsequent use or transfer.

We buy property, we adopt children. We can sell property, we can’t “un-adopt” children.

The easy way to deal with this is don’t deal with any organization that follows the sort of rules you find silly. The market is broad and there are all kinds of reasonable sellers. Promote sanity and reality by supporting them. Don’t engage in the “dead hand” practices of post-sale control when you find you must sell a horse. And NEVER give these people any money unless you carefully “vet” the way they do business!

Some time back I was THE Large Animal Committee and VP for our county Humane Society. During that time we had some pretty good rules for both large and small animals. When some of our number wanted to exercise more “control” I was able to convince our leadership that such was a bad idea as if we assume the power of control then we also assume the duty to exercise that power. When they found out that meant hiring lawyers to draft strict, enforceable contracts and then paying lawyers $250/hr. to enforce those contracts more sober judgement prevailed. Sadly, in most “rescues” such sober thought is utterly lacking.

This NOT an endorsement of animal cruelty. Every state has laws on subject and they can vary widely. The level of enforcement can vary widely within a state. That is true of every element of criminal law. It’s how things work.

Be a responsible husbandry-man with your horses and strive to deal with others of like mind. It makes life a lot more pleasant.

Good luck in your move here!

G.

P.S. Where are you moving from?

For some rescues it is called an adoption when in reality for some it is truely a care lease with an initial one time up front lease fee. It is really semantics. As long as the “adopter” is willing to live with the language of the agreement who cares.

If I leased a horse and increased is value through showing and training I don’t feel I have the right to sell to horse. Many leases have restrictions on where you can house that horse, who is allowed to ride the horse such as named trainer and leasor, how the horse is shod, whether they are allowed to jump, how often they are allowed to show. Yet most of us do not have a problem with the owner of the lease horse putting in these restrictions to protect their property. The person leasing out the horse still retains ownership and a degree of control. They are also legally in the position to take their horse back if the leasor breaks the terms of the lease assuming they have a good lease contract. They also may need to take a leased horse back if circumstances for the leasor changes. In the case of some rescues and some adoptions the organization retains ownership and is essentially leasing the adoptor the animal to retain that control and provide additional protections for that animal.

In reality an adoption for some rescues is no different than a long term lease rather than a year to year or month to month lease. The rescue retains ownership and the adopter is leasing the horse from the rescue. In theory the adopter has the protection of the rescue that they can return the horse if they are not in position to keep the horse or if the horse no longer fits their needs.

Adopting or leasing isn’t for everyone just like buying a house with a HOA isn’t for everyone. At this point in my life I would not buy a property with a HOA. My mother has a totally different personality and should never live in a place without a HOA. She likes things a very certain way and the rules of the HOA help her live with her neighbors and not hate them or hate living there. There are certain protections offered by an HOA to help maintain neighborhood values for items that may not be addressed by local zoning. Not all HOAs are evil. Not all are benign.

Everyone needs to decide for themselves the pros and cons before they lease, adopt or buy a house with an HOA or a deed restriction or easement. If you don’t like the terms don’t enter into the contract. Some people don’t need/want the protection offered in those types of contracts.

Some rescues literally rescue horses, some buy them and flip them, some do a combination and some are just hoarders. There are racehorse rehoming organizations that don’t call themselves rescues or consider themselves rescues but you still may have restrictions under the adoption agreement. Some you get immediate ownership and some you never get ownership.
Once again view it as a lease or lease/purchase. If you don’t like that model fine don’t obtain a horse/dog/cat/other animal through somebody that uses that model. But it doesn’t mean that model doesn’t work for other people or organizations.

[Guilherme]

Adoption can be annulled or vacated by a proper court proceeding. Varies from state to state as what may or may not be done and how long you have to do it and who may initiate it (from 30 days to 25 years). What you can’t do is just take the kid back, drop them off at the point of acquisition, and walk away.

Regarding Contracts, the American Rule is that each side pays their own attorney fees and costs. Absent a statute or some serious wrongdoing by one party or another the person seeking to enforce a contract pays their own freight. Contractual assumption of costs and fees can work assuming the laws of the jurisdiction allow it. And the conduct of the party seeking such reimbursement didn’t engage in any sort of deceptive conduct.

This all becomes even more difficult if the “adoption” is across state lines.

G.

[One_Two_Three]

I don’t think any of the things you listed are unreasonable for a reputable adoption ORG to expect. Coming from someone who is apart of a 501c for retired racehorses, you’d be surprised why ALL of those rules are in place. Many ORGS learn the hard way before implementing extensive rules, many of which have been explained in other responses so I won’t echo them.

If you’re not willing to adhere to the adoption contract, go to an auction and purchase a horse that way. Adopted horses are not being rescued by you. They’re being adopted by you. There were rescued (IF it’s a rescue situation) by the ORG. And their safety net is much bigger and thicker than the average sale horse, or any auction horse. So if you really want to “save” something, purchase it out of a bad situation.

The strict provisions on an adoption horse are to protect it from a bad situation. They don’t want their adopted horse being leased out because you lost time/interest. They’re looking for people willing to be dedicated to these horses through thick and thin.

[bt1]

Yes most rescues purchase and sales/adoption contracts are VERY restrictive, I once read one that you could not even move the horse without approval, ssssooo the boarding barns suddenly has a drastic change for the worse and I have to wait for organizations approval to move horse? No thank you…I agree finding a horse down on it’s luck before it goes to a rescue is a much “easier” way to go that gives you more options in the future. As an aside I don’t get why more “rescues” don’t on farm (or locally off farm if they are so inclined to be that trusting) lease the horses in their care that would be suitable.

[kande04]

@bt

As an aside I don’t get why more “rescues” don’t on farm (or locally off farm if they are so inclined to be that trusting) lease the horses in their care that would be suitable.

Control. If it wasn’t about control then more rescues would help those who have the land and the interest in keeping horses, but don’t have the finances to be able to keep them. So instead of helping these people, the rescues swoop in and “rescue” the horses, and then hit up their enablers to send them money to save these poor neglected horses they’ve rescued.

[bt1]

yes but the rescue would be in control if it was an on farm lease

[RMJacobs]

I adopted two horses from a rescue 15 years ago–a Paint mare and a pony gelding of unknown breed. The contract was pretty restrictive, but I wasn’t concerned because I wasn’t originally planning on moving while the horses were alive, I intended to keep them until they died, and if I’d had a problem with one or both, I would have been OK with returning to the rescue.

The rescue came out to look at our place and said they were very satisfied. They had the right to do periodic checks, but unless they did a driveby and didn’t tell me, they didn’t exercise that right.

The mare was a hard keeper who had already been adopted once, and put out on pasture only by the previous adopter (in Colorado, where we got little rain). No hay, no grain, nothing else. She was very thin when we looked at her. The rescue had taken her back from the previous adopter, and we figured under our care she would do much better. She did, although we had to be vigilant to make sure she kept a good weight.

I didn’t worry about the rescue folks for years and years, or even think about them. We had to put the mare down a couple of years ago, well into her 30s. We decided to move from Colorado to South Carolina last year, and wanted to move the pony with us. In arranging the move, I realized I didn’t have brand inspection on these horses (moot point for the mare by then), so I tried to contact the rescue. I had no luck at all finding them. So I made arrangements to get a brand inspection on the strength of my adoption contract, and off we went.

I think the rescue decided early on that we knew what we were doing, and that is why they didn’t do the allowed periodic checks. I think they probably did check on other people, or they wouldn’t have known they needed to take the mare back from the first adopter.

Rebecca

[WildLittleWren]

@Toblersmom

I think some rescues get increasingly protective in their contracts as they have horses that come back to them or that don’t make it back at all (e.g. they wind up in a kill pen and the original rescue doesn’t find out until too late). It’s a different setting, but the trainer that showed my guy in the Extreme Mustang Makeover took back two Trainer Incentive Program she had placed last year, I’m not sure how she found out they were in trouble, that were walking skeletons just a few months after she had placed them. Young, healthy horses, no excuses to not keep weight on them. They also lost a lot of the trust in people Stacy had worked so hard to give them. Another horse that was in my guy’s EMM with a different trainer is also with Stacy now (don’t know the whole story of why he is with Stacy and not with the original trainer, I assume vagaries of geography and the original trainer’s availability), who also was not being cared for and is a walking skeleton. Fortunately he seems to have simply been not fed as he seems to have kept the groundwork training and adorable personality, anyway. Stacy can’t try him out riding to see how much of that he kept, as he is so desperately thin now. Breaks my heart, and I only admired him watching his progress videos (this is a horse I would have bid on if I hadn’t been successful bidding on the horse I brought home). Since Stacy works with BLM horses she and other TIP/EMM trainers don’t have any direct control over placements and monitoring and taking horses back, but I can see is she were running an independent rescue she might well be inclined to start tightening the screws on what adopters can and can’t do with the horse, keeping them close enough to check on directly herself from time to time, etc.

Just to throw out there, a BLM mustang or burro could fit your bill, whether you are up for a wild one straight out of the corrals, a Mantle ranch horse, a prison program horse, a TIP horse, a horse out of the EMM competitions, or one of the many that turn up on the secondary market that are at risk. If you adopt from the BLM, there are some restrictions regarding fencing and trailers (that are less restrictive if you get a trained horse), and the BLM holds title for a year. In theory, the BLM can come by and check on the horse, but in practice this hardly ever happens. If you get a sale authority horse, you still have to meet the restrictions with fencing and such, and promise you don’t intend to sell the horse to slaughter or for rodeo roughstock, but other than that the horse is yours as soon as you hand over the check.

Yes! Please consider a mustang! You don’t have to adopt one straight from the BLM untouched, there are many that are gentled and trained to ride as well! This was my EMM dropout I adopted March of 2017. She is now a puppy dog, and yup, that’s my 10 year old on her! They make GREAT horses! So many need homes, and if you get one that is already titled or sale authority there are no restrictions on ownership (for mine I got her on the typical 1 year BLM contract before I got her official title and she was legally “mine”). But even the requirements for that are logical and necessary and not absurd at all. In fact, sadly, they never even checked on my mare. Typically they try to send a BLM officer out before granting final clear title, but they didn’t with me. I just had to have my vet sign a form saying that she was in good health and well cared for.

[michu_addams]

[QUOTE=Halt Near X;n10284610]
Generally, I think they run the gamut from good intentions (trying to keep the horses they rescue from ever needing to be rescued again, hence requirements not to resell, etc, or wanting to be able to monitor the horses, hence requirements they remain within a certain geographic radius) to fruitbat crazy./QUOTE]

100% agree. i can understand most of the rules/requirements, but a few of them had me running for the hills!

[michu_addams]

@Halt Near X

Generally, I think they run the gamut from good intentions (trying to keep the horses they rescue from ever needing to be rescued again, hence requirements not to resell, etc, or wanting to be able to monitor the horses, hence requirements they remain within a certain geographic radius) to fruitbat crazy.

I personally won’t adopt from a rescue. I’m not interested in their contract restrictions, even though I appreciate what they are doing. I do donate financially to some rescues that I think are generally well run and do a good job managing their horses with people who are ok with the contract restrictions.

You can keep looking for a 501©3 whose contract suits your current and likely future needs, if you really want to go through a rescue. The benefits are that the rehab should be done already and you’ll know something about training and temperament.

Or you can find your own rescue–horses in bad shape are all over Facebook, Craigs List, etc. You won’t have to deal with all the contract restrictions, but you’ll have to be prepared for rehab (could be $$$) and need to be equipped to assess/deal with any training issues the horse might have. It’s a risk, and you can pour a lot into the horse only to have them not make it in the end.

If you aren’t ready for a full-on rescue, you can always pick up one of the many older or permanently lame horses that are out there, too. Plenty of reasonably healthy horses with known training/temperament/history/medical status need homes as well, and don’t have all the risks of a full-on rescue.

There are plenty of ways to find a companion for your horse and help a horse in need, without having to get involved in contracts you don’t like.

100% agree. I can understand most of the rules/requirements, but a few of them had me running for the hills!

[michu_addams]

@S1969

It does not make the horse better or make you morally superior to acquire one from a rescue organization. And, it may not be cheaper in the end. You might find the horse that matches your needs at a rescue or listed for sale. I would not confine my search to rescues only.

nope - rescuing definitely doesn’t make anyone better than anyone else. I’ve been looking other places as well, in addition to rescues. and what i’m looking for is not crazy specific or difficult to find so i’m sure the perfect one will come along eventually

[michu_addams]

@RubyTuesday

Go to any auction and I can guarantee you that you will find a horse in need of a soft landing. Let the fruitbats go flap in someone else’s business with their crazy rules.

yes i have been highly considering getting an auction horse! i will have to do more research before i settle on that entirely but it seems like a good option to think about!

[michu_addams]

@summerfield

There is a rescue near me that has restrictions I find very limiting. Horses are not allowed to be used for any shows( including 4H) or jumping. They also require 24 hour turnout, which is very rare in the area due to land. I think it’s a great organisation, but there’s a very small segment of the population that can meet those requirements.

exactly! isnt the main goal of rescue organizations to rehome the animals in their care? so why are they making it so difficult? the rules are surely not making people more interested in the horses - if anything it is driving away loads of potential adopters!

[michu_addams]

@Guilherme

Good luck in your move here!

G.

P.S. Where are you moving from?

Thank You!!! Hawaii!

[michu_addams]

@Toblersmom

Just to throw out there, a BLM mustang or burro could fit your bill, whether you are up for a wild one straight out of the corrals, a Mantle ranch horse, a prison program horse, a TIP horse, a horse out of the EMM competitions, or one of the many that turn up on the secondary market that are at risk. If you adopt from the BLM, there are some restrictions regarding fencing and trailers (that are less restrictive if you get a trained horse), and the BLM holds title for a year. In theory, the BLM can come by and check on the horse, but in practice this hardly ever happens. If you get a sale authority horse, you still have to meet the restrictions with fencing and such, and promise you don’t intend to sell the horse to slaughter or for rodeo roughstock, but other than that the horse is yours as soon as you hand over the check.

A BLM mustang or burro could be something to consider! not sure i will have the time or have the experience to start one from the ground up, but a partially trained one might be in the ballpark. thank you for the suggestion!

[michu_addams]

@NancyM

Instead, look for a horse who is down on his luck and may currently have a low value, but who has potential for what you want him FOR, (whatever that might be) with the right care and training. In the long run, this will be the more successful horse for you. In this case, you will look back on this purchase and think what a “good deal” the purchase of this horse was.

Good luck in the search for your new horse.

funny you should say that, the horse I have now is exactly what you described above! i pulled him out of a muddy field where he was being bullied really bad by the other horses, not because he was an above-average mover, but purely because i felt awful and my heart went out to him but as time went on his movement just kept getting better and better and (guess what?) he actually turned out to be a cute little dressage horse i hope to do the same with another horse, either via a rescue or BLM or through craigslist!

[michu_addams]

@tabula rashah

The crazy restrictions are the reason that I won’t adopt. I don’t want to put time and effort into a horse that isn’t actually mine. I will gladly “rescue” on my own and I have donated both money and time to rescues but when it comes to my personal horses- nope. I want to be the one to make the decisions on them.

exactly exactly exactly. 10000% agree. if i’m going to put time, MONEY, effort and resources into a horse, i want to take credit for that work. might sound really selfish to say so, but that’s just it. that’s also another problem with the rescues never giving up ownership - they can have a say in everything you do with the horse. and they can make it legal if they don’t like something your doing. worse, they can take the horse away without notifying you and you don’t have any rights to take the horse back. because its still THEIR horse. not yours.

[michu_addams]

@Mango20

I think you might be misinterpreting the “within 4 hours” rule. I think that just means at the time of adoption, to facilitate them checking out your facility and references. You would be able to move and take the horse with you after the adoption has gone through. I also don’t think a half lease would fall under the “…not sold, loaned, leased” rule. I think the intent there is that the horse would remain under your care and control, and not someone else’s. That said, there are places with restrictive rules, and you’ll have to decide what you can live with.

no, because the rescue site I saw that on was also one that reserved the right to “random, unannounced, periodic, routine visits” and also one that you couldn’t move the horse without telling them first and having them check out the place you were moving the horse to. So in that case moving the horse outside of the 4 hour radius would be a direct breech of the contract.