RESULTS ARE IN!! ANOTHER color prediction question!!

[Simkie]

[QUOTE=ShannonD;6859474]
Nope “At” tests as just plain old A with Animal Genetics/UC Davis/Any standard Agouti test. So does A+ (wild bay) as well. All three are versions of Agouti, and the standard Agouti test just tests for the presence of Agouti.

So it’s possible the mare could test as Ata rather than Aa with PetDNA… Unless she’s phenotypically bay, in which case she’s definitely Aa ;)[/QUOTE]

Ah-ha, excellent to know. Tough to say on the horse, as she’s also grey, with two grey parents. She is quite dark, but I don’t know how much of that is her being grey and therefore a bit darker versus potentially brown.

DancingFoal, as Simkie said, there is no way possible that the foal has a 33.3333% chance of ANYTHING. It’s just not possible. The calculator is wrong. The foal has a 50% chance of being red based, period!

This is my problem with the calculator…if you don’t know on something, they run through all the possibilities for the unknown alleles and add them together, which yields results that just aren’t possible at all. I wish they would break it out: if homozygous, then this, if heterozygous, then this. You would think it would drive business, too, because more people would understand more info yields more accuracy. Here, if we use the calculator and input a? for the mare, it gives us 25% bay/25% black/50% chestnut, even though there is ZERO chance of bay if the mare is aa. So misleading.

@JB;6859488

Testing for brown is really only worth while in the case of a chestnut, or a bay who doesn’t have a black parent and your’e interested in whether he carries brown (because bay is dominant over brown).

Or if you’re just slightly crazy and like to know ALL the details :lol: (I had my filly tested purely because I was curious, not for any particular reason ;))

[Snowfox]

[QUOTE=Simkie;6859439]
The sire is black with a chestnut dam. Therefore, we know that he is Eeaa, which yields the results that I outlined above. Given what we know about the sire and the fact the mare is chestnut, there is absolutely no way that pairing can produce 33.3% red, 33.3% black and 33.3% bay. The only unknown here is the agouti status of the mare–either Aa, Ata, or aa.

Grey.[/QUOTE]

It’s pretty easy to know a grey horse when you see one. It’s not really a lurker is it.

[Simkie]

[QUOTE=Snowfox;6859501]
It’s pretty easy to know a grey horse when you see one. It’s not really a lurker is it.[/QUOTE]

It can be in a foal.

People also want to know if the horse is heterozygous or homozygous grey.

[JB]

In this OP case, we know the stallion is Eeaa. The mare is ee??. Using the AG calculator and putting that in, you get exactly what’s been listed - 50% chestnut, 25% black, 25% bay, same as if the dam is known to be Aa.

You can play with the dam’s Agouti, and using AA will get you the 50/50 black/bay.

The Color Genetics calculator allows you to figure in brown as well as bay. If the mare (in this case) is AAt, then it’s a 25% chance each of black, bay, brown, and chestnut. If she’s Ata, then using the above, replace bay with brown.

[ShannonD]

[QUOTE=Simkie;6859505]

People also want to know if the horse is heterozygous or homozygous grey.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Especially in the PRE/Andalusian world, when practically every horse is grey. That’s changing steadily, but they’re always SO surprised when a bay/brown/etc pops out of two parents. And “brown” doesn’t exist – they’re ALL called bay, each and every one of them

Simkie, I wouldn’t trust her being a darker grey to mean ANYTHING lol. I’ve yet to find anything reliable that hints at the genotype… Other than homozygous greys tend to grey faster. Some of the blackest looking greys I’ve seen have been chestnut underneath!

[JB]

[QUOTE=Snowfox;6859501]
It’s pretty easy to know a grey horse when you see one. It’s not really a lurker is it.[/QUOTE]
As Simkie said, some foals can be tricky and you might want to know sooner rather than later. You might also test for gray if both parents are gray and you want to know if the foal is Gg or GG.

It’s also nearly impossible to tell with many double dilutes if they are gray, until you’ve seen quite a few. To the uneducated eye, cremellos especially look pretty much the same before and after they grayed.

[ShannonD]

[QUOTE=JB;6859508]

The Color Genetics calculator allows you to figure in brown as well as bay. If the mare (in this case) is AAt, then it’s a 25% chance each of black, bay, brown, and chestnut. If she’s Ata, then using the above, replace bay with brown.[/QUOTE]

Wait wait how is there a chance of black if the mare is AAt? And shouldn’t it still be 50% chestnut? These things are so wrong…

[JB]

Sorry sorry! That was my bad, quick typing without paying attention THEY did not say black - I did. I was just reading down the % column and not paying attention.

Still 50/50 chestnut or black-based, with the black-based combo varying.

So sorry!

[Simkie]

[QUOTE=ShannonD;6859513]
Simkie, I wouldn’t trust her being a darker grey to mean ANYTHING lol. I’ve yet to find anything reliable that hints at the genotype… Other than homozygous greys tend to grey faster. Some of the blackest looking greys I’ve seen have been chestnut underneath![/QUOTE]

Because I am a giant nerd, I had her tested :lol:

Here’s the pedigree: http://www.pedigreequery.com/seven+springs4

Here are pics: http://s155.beta.photobucket.com/user/simkie/library/Seven?

She is EeAAGg. I had misremembered her agouti results.

Could be interesting to send in the At test…

[ShannonD]

Here is one I’d want to test for grey. Black sire, grey dam. She’s had white ticking forever, but AFAIK it hasn’t gotten heavier… she’s 3 this year. It was assumed she was grey as a foal from what I remember.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/307695_857765174636_751267217_n.jpg

Pretty neat, here are two of the youngsters the above filly is growing up with. Other than these two below having the same damsire, they are not related at all. Just all very slow greying.

2 year old
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/23876_10151369272878487_1626884220_n.jpg

3 year old
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/529032_319955648106435_1688952083_n.jpg

[eggbutt]

OK, going to test the mare and I will revive this post when the results return!

Simkie, I was being quite facitious with my 150%!

[eggbutt]

RESULTS OF AGOUTI TEST IS BACK!!

Our Mare is AA: Homozygous for Agouti. Horse carries two copies of the Agouti gene.

So, what do you think (know) we will have next year with her bred to Everdale (black)?

[RiddleMeThis]

[QUOTE=eggbutt;6872462]
Our Mare is AA: Homozygous for Agouti. Horse carries two copies of the Agouti gene.

So, what do you think (know) we will have next year with her bred to Everdale (black)?[/QUOTE]
You’re only options are bay and chestnut. You won’t get a black.

[eggbutt]

Thank you…darn…wanted a black but we’ll be happy with a healthy foal!

[JB]

Brown is also possible, unless this was a Pet DNA test

[Simkie]

[QUOTE=eggbutt;6872462]
Our Mare is AA: Homozygous for Agouti. Horse carries two copies of the Agouti gene.

So, what do you think (know) we will have next year with her bred to Everdale (black)?[/QUOTE]

Interesting. The black foal she aborted must have actually been some version of bay.

JB, any thoughts on that? Is it more likely that the mare has at least one At if she produced a nearly black foal?

[JB]

Who was the sire in that case? If the sire was black, then yes, the mare has at least one At. But if the sire was brown or chestnut, that doesn’t help knowing the mare’s AAs

The “black” foal would have been dark brown

[Simkie]

According to the first post, the sire was black, and the foal was aborted at 8 months–not sure if that matters, or how color develops in utero?

[eggbutt]

The sire in the case of the aborted black colt was Rolling Stone. There was not a hint of red tint whatsoever. He was completely dry by the time we got him in for a necropsy and was definitely black.

[eggbutt]

The test was done by Animal Genetics in Florida and was an equine agouti test. Is there another test I should have done in addition to the agouti test? Not that it makes any difference at this point, it is just really, really interesting.