Retired Young Horse Mean To Other Horses (Update #38)

[sascha]

@Giddyin

I felt crazy even considering euthanasia but I was thinking it.

Do not feel crazy.

Do not allow other people, no matter how good their intentions, sway you from your decision once you make it. Whether that is now, a few months from now, or a year or more from now depending on how your experiments with various things go, the peace of mind you will gain will more than make up for any doubts that those people put in your head.

FWIW, the uni vets (or at least their spokesvet in the conference room after diagnosis) was one that said, “Oh, maybe give him a nice spring and summer …” but my own vet who knew me and him and our boarding situation was immediately on board with my decision once he saw the results from our trip for diagnostics. I guess what I’m saying is, trust your gut no matter what.

[endlessclimb]

Maybe a cribbing muzzle?

https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/cribbingfree-to-eat-muzzle-4213

If you’re going to spray something on blankets, Raplast is very effective. Spray in an open area, and hold your breath, stay upwind, and run when you need to. It’s like pepper spray in a spray bottle.

And, if I were in your shoes, I would 100% euthanize.

[Giddyin]

That’s the one I was looking at unfortunately it’s recommended for only grass, not hay or hay nets.

I was planning to try Raplast, do you know if it’ll stain the blanket? I’m hoping if I use it on one old blanket for a bit it’ll be longer enough to teach him to stop so I don’t have to be using it on everything all the time. Is it safe to use on a fly sheet, I’m wondering with the holes if it’ll get on the horses skin and irritate it?

[endlessclimb]

Well rats on the muzzle. What are the fully metal ones that clip onto a halter made for? Grass only as well?

Raplast would absolutely irritate skin - I got a whiff of it before I learned my lesson, and was nearly wheezing for an hour. I don’t know about the staining, as I only used it on barn walls and a black blanket.

[luvmyhackney]

On the grazing muzzle you can adjust the hole size and many horses can eat hay with them. My QH can eat half a bale in 3 hours with a muzzle.

I would use it as last ditch effort and then if he didn’t calm down euth.

[BayMoose]

I have had basically this horse for the past 16 years. He has day never worked a day in his life, and when he was split from my other horses at a different barn due to my work schedule, he was moved to many different groups and then finally alone.

What worked for him was putting him back with my other horses so that they could be a stable group. They worked out their differences and then all settled down. If possible, I would try to find a situation where he can be outside 24/7 with a stable group. Horses who are out all the time tend to be calmer because there is no pent up energy. I don’t think a muzzle will be a long term solution.

[luvmyhackney]

Raplast does stain light colored things a nice orange color.

It works so good though.

[OverandOnward]

The “one last summer” suggestions aren’t understanding the horse’s situation. The whole point is that the animal is unhappy & uncomfortable. Why put him through three more months of it?

Also in my climate summer is miserable anyway.

[Peggy]

The only person who have me any grief was my shoer who noted that they wished they had known bc they knew someone rich who took horses line mine and put them in a pasture. That would not have been something I was comfortable with.

At the time I also had a horse that I retired at age 14 and lived for ten years. In hindsight I’m not sure I would make the same decision today for that horse, though he had a wonderful retirement.

[candyappy]

@Giddyin

While I agree he should be alone, he’s going to be mostly retired for the rest of his life. He’s been alone for a few months and just isn’t happy without the socialization and stuff to do. He gets so bored he starts acting up.

@Giddyin

he will cover other horses in bite marks (I mean several a day) if he’s out with another horse. Sometimes he gives no warning by pining his ears or anything he just goes straight to biting. If another horse defends themselves against his antics or play he gets mad and goes after them.

Is he in pain and is it treated?

Horses in constant pain ( like people) can just be really grumpy, abusive and mean.

Your not going to like my opinion ( few do) but he either needs to learn how to be happy sharing a fence line or you might want to consider euthanasia.

It isn’t fair to other horses to subject them to his daily abuse. Even if you muzzle him he can still kick, bully and intimidate the horse who is unlucky enough to be paired up with him.

[Sdel]

I will also say it sounds like pain to me. I had a mare that was similar. She would start out by running and playful bucking and then suddenly she’d swing around and really start to go after and try to kick her pasture mate. Shortly after she started doing this we found severe navicular in both fronts. We eventually put her down when she got too dangerous to safely do her feet.

It wasn’t very nice for my other horse either, to suddenly and inexplicably have her friend playing with her one minute and then trying to attack her the next.

[OverandOnward]

On more thought for you, OP … if you do decide to seriously consider or perform euthanasia, don’t open up the discussion to any but just a very, very few people who are closest to you.

It’s not a decision for the whole world to make with you. You don’t need validation from a crowd. They will never understand what the horse is living with. What you are living with. They can’t see this day by day/ They just pass judgment from a distance based on their own assumptions.

It can make it much, much harder to have a lot of people with strong and varying opinions, along with things like "I know someone who … ", “have you tried [blank]”, etc. & so on, after you have already seen and done so much. None of it is realistic or helpful.

You need support rather than second-guessing and criticism. It’s the nature of things that its up to you to gatekeep that support.

All the best to you, whatever you choose to do.

[RedHorses]

As my horse chiropractor reminded me last fall - they (neurological horses) have good days and bad days.

I thought my neurological horse was doing well, and then this last week has been a complete write off. I’m finding it very difficult as my older horse has been off for the last five months, and I have a near zero emotional/mental energy balance due to other life stresses. And zero money for another horse in any form (lessons, lease, etc).

Some young geldings do seem to need jobs if they are not to become juvenile delinquents. Often the “job” doesn’t need to be much or physically demanding, they just need regular mental exercise and reminders of their manners.

That said, I would give him a job. If that failed I would try to find him a group with very strong, fair, leaders who will physically put him in his place only when he oversteps. I would not be worried about any injuries he might receive as this would be a last chance to have a happy life sort of thing. Okay, I’d worry, but I’d also see it as an acceptable risk.

And yes, as owners of neurological horses we do have to be prepared to euthanize when the horse can no longer be safely managed. If we time it right, that euthanasia will occur before the vast majority of casual observers recognize there is a problem. Meaning “Trust yourself!” and maybe the one or two other people who know him well.

[trubandloki]

@endlessclimb

Maybe a cribbing muzzle?

https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/cribbingfree-to-eat-muzzle-4213

These things hurt when they smack into you.

I say this because they would like hurt another horse if this horse is constantly attacking it while wearing this.

[Cowboy_Girl]

He’s 5 years old and retired due to soundness. He is borderline vicious to pasture mates - he’s the cause of an expensive vet bill waiting to happen. Not popular I’m sure, but why haven’t you put this horse to sleep already?

[LCDR]

How about trying a CBD supplement? For the horse.

[OverandOnward]

Also …

Horses have no concept of time or their lifespan as we know it. Not for themselves or for their pasture mates.

[Giddyin]

Update:
My boy was added into an existing herd of geldings at the same property several months ago and has been doing great with them! He is the highest in the pecking order and all the other geldings don’t mind letting him be it and are respectful of his space. He is firm that he wants his boundaries respected but overall is a good leader and shares large hay bales with them and naps with them.

As the warmer weather came his mood also improved drastically. That being said we are back to cold weather and I noticed as soon as the temps dropped his mood went sour again (luckily he’s still getting along with everyone in his herd). I’m worried the malformation in his neck is causing him pain in the cold and he’s also a bit foot sore which the frozen uneven ground is not helping. He has mild neurological symptoms and when he wears shoes it causes excessive tripping and I’m really hesitant to put them on again, I don’t want to see him go down on accident. He’s getting Zinc/Copper and biotin, and regular venice turpentine. Have tried keratex but doesn’t make a difference.

I’m wondering if anyone with experience with neurological horses has advice as when to make the call to pts. He’s always going to have the malformation in C5-C6 (horizontally fused together) and I’m worried I’m considering calling it quits too early. He’s a 6 year old OTTB, mostly pasture pet. I’m struggling with what to do with his feet and it feels hopeless. He’s not playing anymore (is he just growing up?) and he gets overly mouthy when something is bothering him and he has been ridiculous since it’s gotten cold. If he can live happily as a pasture pet I want to make sure I let him have that I’m just seriously doubting myself. If he’s trying to hide just how much pain he’s in and I don’t know. I am planning to have him rechecked in the spring and talk with my vet but I’m wondering if euthanasia should be apart of the conversation? I love him to pieces, nothing scares him, he stands like a statue for the farrier, he says yes to any question and would walk through fire for me, he is just an absolute saint. I just want to make sure I’m doing right by him and don’t want to be selfish if he’s in pain. It’s a thought I can not shake and was hoping for insight.

[candyappy]

@Giddyin

That being said we are back to cold weather and I noticed as soon as the temps dropped his mood went sour again (luckily he’s still getting along with everyone in his herd).

Tough call. Sounds like he is happy with his herd mates and you hate to do anything to change that. I would say that if it is just weather related to move him to a warmer climate and see how he does.

Of course you won’t be there with him but it may take euthanasia off the table.

Is he blanketed? Maybe if he was warmer that way it may make a difference?

[blue_heron]

You can’t let him go too early. There have been horses and dogs in my life that when they were euthanized, it was a huge weight off my shoulders. I never had to worry about them suffering again. A few I think I waited too long and regret that I didn’t advocate for them to go sooner.