Also - I saw today that Northfolk Southern is claiming that having to focus on DEI at their company took focus away from safety and caused the train crashes.
Maybe freda works there.
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Don’t even get me started. The issues in our (USA, general) transportation infrastructure has nothing to do with diversity and EVERYTHING to do with profiteering, corporate greed, and a whole lot of capitalistic corruption.
The horse industry has a lot of issues, and I’ll admit USEF charges so many fees I wonder where it all goes. But I would gladly help fund a greater DEI push with real research and initiatives, and I’ll retire my own horse, thank you very much.
Edit: spelling
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I realize this is a leading thread. But I don’t think it’s bad for people to discuss anyway.
For one thing, anyone that doesn’t manage a budget has no idea how far money goes, for any purpose. Even in my organization’s small $5M budget, a $50K expense on something like long lasting DEI initiatives is not a lot of money. We will probably spend that annually for 3 years or so. Our work has a lasting impact on marginalized communities - this is important work.
Conversations about CEOs making $450K…let’s talk about that. How much money do you think is reasonable? If the revenue from dues is already $14M, why isn’t that salary appropriate? My guess is that other sources of revenue are also fairly large (I’m guessing other fees incurred by organizations that are holding shows), so we’re probably talking a lot more than $14M. What kind of organizational leader will manage a national membership organization with 180,000 members for less than that? It’s very likely appropriate for the job.
And, $80/year for membership? That’s very little. I’m not personally a member - so what other benefits are included for that cost? Is there a magazine/publication? Is there a database of points earned/placements, show results, etc.? Those things are costly.
Oh nevermind, the benefits of membership are listed. And there are benefits available for non-members, so dues and/or other revenue sources underwrite activities that are available for non-members.
DEI is a tiny fraction of this organization’s expenditures - so small, in fact, that it would register as 0%. What’s the problem?
And because the mission of this organization is not to support its 180,000 members with retirement benefits, it’s not surprising that they are not offered. But, it’s possible that in some of the other content (e.g. video library, or magazine, or other options) there might be resources to help members plan for their horse’s retirement.
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Hi mmeqcenter, I totally agree with you, that comment from Norfolk is just beyond ridiculous! Hard to take a company seriously that says anything that stupid. No, I do not work for them.
I do not understand however, the funding of DEI committees. Sorry, just does not compute with me. All I think anybody needs to do is what I was told, treat others the way you want to be treated. Yes, the horse industry/sport has problems, the biggest one is MONEY. That, in my opinion, is the main reason many do not get involved.
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I think you still don’t understand what DEI initiatives actually do.
And still, you’re hung up on $50K like it’s a lot of money. It might be a lot of money to you but not in a national, multi-million membership organization. It is their responsibility to look at decision making bias, and looking at it from the perspective of DEI is important for the benefit of their members.
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Hi, so once again I will ask, please, explain what the DEI committees have done. And, what is the plan your group of 29 plans to implement? As to understanding what DEI initiatives actually “do”. I think this goes to my first 2 questions, what have they done & what do they plan to do? I do know what DEI stands for and I know what it is supposed to do. Been doing them all my life, just do not know what you all plan to do. I, as I have said, support these things but just do not see the benefit of the USEF/USHJA having committees to do whatever they are doing. I do not think it is right for USEF to require employees and officials to take tests to be licensed or work there. In my opinion they are requiring people to prove they are not biased. I do not understand why people are so afraid to discuss it and aswer questions about it. I know that nowadays $50,000 isn’t much in the grand scheme of things to a lot of people. It is to me, I am not the elitist one poster called me. I worked for everything I have gotten, no gifts or inheritances from anyone. But, whatever the amount, they are spending other peoples money and should get the best value for it they can. Sadly, today, the value of money is very badly abused. In a couple of comments on this discussion, I believe I have been called a troll. Could you please tell me what that means. What I am, is an 83 year old horse woman, who has been involved with horses my entire life. I have been a rider, trainer, teacher, breeder, show producer, member of countless organizations, Pres. of some. I do not want my organizations and the horse people torn apart by a needless program. I am sorry you seem to think I am being out of line by questioning the value of the DEI committees, but I do feel strongly about it and I am not sorry about that. This is because I follow the news of the country as well as the horse world and I see it causing much division that was not there. The problem, as I see it with the DEI thing, it is not presented properly. It seems to me that it brings people down does not build them up. May I ask that you go to the Breitbart website and read the article by Black Columbia University Professor and New York Times newsletter author "Equity is a dehumanizing “Weasel” word for “token black”. It might give you just another way of looking at something and I think looking at various viewpoints is a good thing. Again, thank you for taking the ime to read my posts and to have conversation with me. I truly do appreciate it.
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Exactly. Why would this be a USEF problem? Owners have responsibility for their horse’s welfare at all stages of life. If you don’t want that responsibility when the horse is no longer rideable, maybe you should be riding motorcycles instead.
Sorry. Personal peeve. It just ticks me off that some people think horses are to be thrown away when they reach the age of a well-deserved retirement. (I’m not including people who, through no fault of their own, can no longer afford to keep their horse).
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But if they could afford the horse when he was rideable, why would they not be able to afford the horse when he’s retired? (Barring any change in employment/income stream/owner health).
If paying for a horse in good health through retirement means someone can’t afford another horse to ride, isn’t it being selfish to euthanize just to buy a rideable horse? Where is the love for a horse that, I hope, got us all into this sport to begin with?
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Ok - I’ll admit I have no idea what USEF’s exact initiatives are, but DEI generally tends to look at organizational structure, maybe things like member benefits, hiring, and decisions, to see what areas might have bias and whether these biases may influence culture and decisions. Most of the time the work begins by looking at individuals who work there, helping them understand what bias looks like (generally) and what it might look like at that organization. In a membership organization like USEF, I think much of the conversation might be about barrier to entry in the sport - why are there so few riders of color? Do the membership demographics match up to the geographic demographics? It’s not only about wealth, as you have said yourself. So what else is it, and can that be changed? Is it being done unconsciously - is equestrian sport actually biased against non-white athletes?
In my organization - we authorize over 200 charter schools, meaning we approve them to open, monitor them, and can recommend closure. Our decisions affect entire communities most of which are lower income, people of color. While our processes are well thought out, and involve many people, if there was bias internally, they could affect our decisions. How do we know that isn’t happening? None of them would be conscious bias. And they might not be all about race/ethnicity. In the last search I conducted, all of the candidates we interviewed (and ultimately our selected candidate) were female. Did we act on a bias? I didn’t consciously look at gender when we read resumes, but how do I know? (I actually went back and looked, and 75% of the applicants were female). So I don’t think it was my bias but we are going to look at the job description and see if there are any reasons why it might attract more women than men. (And maybe there is none).
But if this trend happened in 4/8 searches every year, and we didn’t look at it more closely - could we actually pass on a decision making bias? Absolutely yes!
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I will look at it. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of articles about this topic just from the last few years. Some of our employees have done some very deep dives into this literature. My guess is that anything posted in Breitbart isn’t considered highly academic reading. It may represent one person’s opinion, but it is not likely to be one that is generally accepted.
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If the horse is being fully retired because he is not sound enough to even putter around on, I question the ethics of keeping him alive.
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Wow, damn, I better go tell the two retirees in my barn. Sorry guys, I know you still enjoy hanging out in the pasture, eating and laying in the sun, your time’s up.
Come to think of it, I’m pretty lame myself. I better finish my dream board quickly.
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If you couldn’t get on them and putter around without them being crippled the next day…
[this is why I said right in the beginning this is not going to be a popular opinion]
Edit: note I’m not saying they have to be sound enough to show. But completely unsound for even a walk-trot ride for 20-30 mins? That horse is in serious pain every moment of their life.
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How many retirees do you have? I mean, if we made “sound” = rideable for 30 minutes, most retirees would be PTS.
I have a 28 year old TB who hasn’t been ridden in at least 7 years. Why would I? she’s not sound, and the more she’s ridden, the less fun it is. Could I get on her and ride for 10 minutes? I guess. Not sure why I would want to though. She is absolutely 100% pasture sound - she walks, trots and canters at will, and according to my farrier will likely outlive us all. She is definitely not in pain every moment of her life.
My daughter’s 17 year old WB is another story; she had a serious tendon injury and the vet gave us her blessing to PTS whenever we thought she wouldn’t be comfortable. We’re still waiting for her to tell us that. She’s pretty happy but arthritic. She gets up and down without issue, she’s on equioxx and the farrier is a challenge for her hinds. But, she eats and sleeps and poops and walks all around my 5-7 acre pasture, so she’s not limiting herself yet.
I’ve got some serious arthritis in my hip as well. I get how she feels. But she’s definitely not “in pain every moment of her life.”
I think your experience with retirees is lacking.
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LOL have to say this is hardly academic writing, nor does it really explain what “DEI” actually means. Believe it or not, it’s not just about people of color, despite what this author means - FROM THE ARTICLE
McWhorter added that pushing for change is needed, but “if you force it to that extent that you say that next week, everything has to be equal — what it comes down to is this: What that does to, for example, black people, is that you go through an entire life knowing that nothing that you’ve been asked to do, nothing that you’ve been granted can be completely separated from the fact that somebody wasn’t thinking about the fact you were a pretty color and it would make them look good to bring you in. You spend your whole life that way, yes that does include me. That is something that we have to think about with these sorts of policies where you force it really quickly and you drag people in to be what used to be called — what happened to the term ‘token black?’ Remember, we used to say that. Now, it’s called diversity and equity. It won’t do. So, yes, but you can’t do it too much, too fast, or you’re dehumanizing everybody but white people.”
I’m sorry this has been his experience. This is not what DEI work is supposed to look like, but we have interviewed some consultants that definitely are looking at this 100% from African Americans’ experience.
Which, for my female, Muslim, immigrant co-worker on the DEI committee - is really insulting. She doesn’t apparently count in that consultant’s view. Because she’s not African American.
DEI is looking at all kinds of equity - yes, race/ethnicity, but also ability/disability, age, gender, geographic demographics, sexual orientation, gender identity, and about 100 other attributes that humans might be biased against. The whole point is to actually look at yourself, and find your own biases, and then decide how they might affect your decision making.
As a 53 year old white woman from a semi-rural upbringing, I am sure I have some biases against urban populations, people of color, different cultures, etc. If I made high stakes decisions by myself, my bias might affect them. I’m guessing the USEF board is a bunch of wealthy white people. They should look at their own biases and make sure they aren’t affecting organizational decisions.
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I have owned the same horse for 22 years - he will be 25 this year, and retired from showing for 9 years due to persistent LH lameness, yet still gets ridden 4x a week to keep that arthritis at bay. He still jumps small cross rails, does his flying changes, HI/SI/half pass etc. and is no worse for the wear the next day. The chiropracter comments on his excellent range of motion, and laments his hock arthritis. I have tried to “fully” retire this horse, his arthritis tries to kill him in a month or less, and the muscle loss is astounding.
I have managed several other VERY geriatric horses (30+). Nearly all of them I would have euthed years before their owners did - yeah, the horse is able to walk around, is seen trotting and carrying on - but the pain in their eyes and expressions was notable. They, too, were atrocious for the farrier because their pain level was so high they couldn’t bear the weight on 3.
I stand by my comment. If you can’t get on the horse and ride for 20-30 minutes at a walk and a trot without them being crippled the next day, that horse is in pain every moment of its life. Same with the one who is having trouble with her hinds for the farrier.
They are designed to look chipper. They are designed to live on. That does not mean they aren’t in pain, and especially for the ones who have trouble with the farrier - pretty significant pain. You want to keep yours alive, be my guest. When my Old Man can’t stand on three legs for longer than 10 seconds because his pain is that high, it’s over for him.
We owe it to them to not let them hit rock bottom before we make the choice. I will never forget the horse whose hoof capsule literally sloughed off once he wasn’t standing on it anymore following a euth.
Or hey let’s look at my late mare. She had lymphoma which was eventually going to kill her, but overall she was pretty healthy all things considered. She had some sort of injury or disease (fractured pelvis? EPM?) that made one side of her hindquarters look skeletal in a matter of weeks. I brought her to Purdue (they weren’t confident in any particular diagnosis, but recommended months and months of stall rest), and I elected to euth her. Could I have carried on? Sure! She walked in on 4 feet! She loaded in the trailer! I could have continued her cancer related meds indefinitely! I could have made her endure an unknown duration of stall rest! No sir, I decided to let her go as a badass instead of hitting rock bottom.
So, to each their own. That’s why I said “this is an unpopular OPINION.” Better a month early than a day late - if you have different feelings, then you do you.
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I wish I could like your entire post 1000 times. I think we (g) seem to underestimate the pain our horses can be in at any given time. Even the “princesses” are more stoic than we give them credit for.
For me, I don’t mind having to give a horse breaks for the farrier. I think sometimes farriers hold that foot up way too long even for a sound horse (it’s a trim. Let Dobbin rebalance for a second).
But what I won’t do, is force a horse to go untrimmed or require heavy pain meds to see the farrier. That’s just not fair. That DOES mean the horse is in chronic pain ALL THE TIME. There’s a difference as well between a mechanical lameness or one that the horse works out of, and something clearly constant or worsening.
People can do what they want with their animals, that’s life. But, I think we owe it to them to let them go in relative comfort rather than suffer through years of chronic pain just so the owners feel better about themselves.
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Or, my laminitic OTTB that I euthed after trying to make him comfortable for 6 months. Who wants to take care of a severely laminitic horse, who was humungous, ate a TON, and cribbed, for the rest of his life? I tried what I could to make him comfortable - shoeing with xray assistance at Purdue, etc etc.
For a test, I dosed him for 3 days with the max amount of bute, plus a little. He was still significantly lame. I gave him a lovely last month of life, and euthed him.
He was still standing, running, bucking - doing everything a 5yo thoroughbred does. But he was always going to be a founder risk, would always need $$ shoeing, and would never be sound for consistent riding. It was always going to be “god, I hope he doesn’t founder again”. Could he have lived his 20 year life in a pasture, with a muzzle on?
That one sucked bigtime because he had the most potential of any horse I’ve ever owned. Miss that guy, and always wonder what could have been.
@fivestrideline I actually think the problem with the farriers can be how high they hike up the leg. But, I get that the farrier probably has back problems himself, so a balance has to be found.
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I think it would be interesting to ask the COTH collective when they think it’s time to put a retiree down. I can tell you that your definition definitely does not track with my vet clinic.
I also wonder how many people you know over 60. Based on your definition it seems like they don’t deserve to continue living. I mean if daily pain or limited activity is the definition.
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I can’t believe you are comparing a human living through pain to an animal living through pain.
Can. Not. Believe it.
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