Regarding the “new young horse” thread, and people have suggested she/he return the horse.
How is this done? Is there a legal time limit? Do you record the previous owner admitting that the horse had X problem but didn’t tell you? Do people end up going to court over this? Does it need to be in the sales contract?
Thanks!
If you want to be reasonably sure of anything, put it in a contract. But not sure many sellers will agree to it. Its realistically impossible to guarantee that a horse/owner relationship will work out. Buyer beware is always the best advice
I returned a bad egg (long story…) after close to a year of trying to resolve issues. Prior owner agreed to take the horse on consignment and not charge me for training, only board. No agreements, no lawyers, she was just a decent person.
Sellers who care about their reputation will try to work something out, but I’d guess its rarely a full refund.
I sold an older ranch horse to a lady to use for trail riding in the spring.
I always tell a buyer that if they need help with the horse or selling it later, I will gladly work with them.
That next December, her husband called that she had been diagnosed with breast cancer, it was very advanced, she had surgery and now chemo and radiation and they wanted to move the horse.
I told him we will go get him and give him a check for the full price.
The horse was in excellent shape, even had his own supplies, blanket and all, that came with him.
They had taken very good care of him, as I expected when I sold him to them.
Sold an older horse to a family for their little girl, that they adored.
The lady called a year later to buy a horse for her DH and bought one we had.
When they came try him and they were going to pay for him, already loaded in their trailer, she said she had to pay on terms over six months, was moving and was a bit short of money.
I didn’t like that, but didn’t want to make a scene, so we rode a quick contract and they paid the first month.
Over the next five months I only received two more payments, then finally one day mid afternoon had a frantic call, the lady, a nurse, was in hysterics, telling me to come get the horse, she hated him and all kinds of crazy talk, that he drove her nuts pawing when she went to feed and yelling over the phone.
Finally DH got on the phone, apologized, said DW was having some problems and would we please take the horse back.
So, two hours later, they call me from a local stable that someone dropped that horse for me to pickup, when did I want to come get him?
They had the horse for that time, the horse was fine, the paperwork with him was all there, I asked someone I know where they had moved to about the other horses and they said they were fine, the old horse also.
Just crazy all around, but we did take the horse back, returned the last check they had just sent, considered the first two payments rent on the time they had the horse.
When you buy and sell some horses, you come across all kinds of deals, ways you return horses or horses are returned to you.
If you have a contract with clear specifications on how any questions or returns will happen, you still don’t know where you are until you contact the other party.
The best way to insure people will be sensible is to buy and sell from/to sensible people only.
If you can figure who those are.
I don’t think it should ever be assumed that you can return a horse. Of course, many sellers will be kind and take a horse back, but they don’t HAVE to unless that is stated in a contract.
That’s what I was afraid of.
First horse I bought was so hot she was unrideable. Seemed fine, just a little forward when I tried her out. After I bought her, the more I rode her the worse she got. Called the seller less that a month after I bought her and she admitted she was unable to ride the horse, either. Also admitted she didn’t tell me because she was afraid I wouldn’t buy her (obviously). Wouldn’t take her back. I tried for a year then sold her with full disclosure. The person who bought her sold her two years later. No one can ride this horse, I see her for sale every couple of years.
Bought an Icelandic from the breeder. Turned out he had a dangerous bolting issue. Called the breeder less than a month later and he admitted he knew of the bolting but didn’t tell me because “its the buyer’s responsibility to figure this stuff out”. I rode this horse two times, it was just two times that he didn’t bolt. Refused to take the horse back. Breeder eventually went out of business (he was old). Horse turned out to also have neurological issues. Had to put him down.
The horse in my sig. Besides stumbling (and eventually falling) he also had a habit of attacking other horses when I was riding him in the arena (never was able to untrain this behavior). Called the seller who just kept avoiding my questions. Also had to put him down.
I was just hoping that there’s maybe some legal recourse since I’m figuring out the problems less than a month after buying. Guess not. I’m doing everything I’m supposed to do: I ride the horse twice, I take a friend with me, I get vet checks.
No wonder I’m so paranoid about buying a fourth horse.
Thank you for the responses.
Maida, I suggest that you be more selective about who you buy your next horse from. Find a breeder or trainer that is known, has a good reputation, has references from satisfied previous clients. Yes, it may cost you more, but you’ve already experienced the high cost of buying unsuitable horses.
I almost never sell an equine, but the last time I did, I told the woman that she could bring the mule back any time for any reason if it didn’t work out. Because it is important to me that my equines end up in a good place.
The people I bought my current horse from said the same thing.
I know 4 people personally who returned horses they could not handle. None got any money back. Put a try out period in a sales contract if you want money back. You still may have to sue even with a sales contract setting out the requirements. The 4 people I know lost from 1500 to 6500 on those horses.
I have some horses for sale, and I would have no issue taking them back.
Any person I’ve bought a horse from, I was reasonably sure of what I was dealing with. I’d already judged them, good or bad. Responsible, knowledgable, honest, financially strapped…climbing on the first time was always a crap shoot. I was lucky.
from a sellers point of view… I love all my horses and avoid to sell them. But if I need to sell one I try to represent them as correct as possible to the buyer because I want the sale to work out. The last time I sold a horse I told the buyers everything about the horse (it was a rather green horse) and I even recorded a video which showed how I handle her and how I warm her up and ride her (the buyer never watched it…) . And I gave a lot of tips to the buyer how to handle situations because the horse was green at that point, which I also told the buyers . While I owned the horse, I trailered to lessons every week, showed it and got qualifying scores for regionals. One year later, the buyer told me that this is horse is conformation wise not suited for dressage (thats what her trainer told her) and she would misbehave… I would love to take her back and I am worried to death about her because she is such a lovely trusting horse (at least she was), but she is now far away and I dont think I am willing to pay for the haul back and refund the money to get back a horse which might be destroyed 
If someone buys from an established and recommended trainer/stable that is selling horses actively, if the horse doesn’t work later, you can always re-consign the horse with them.
They will charge you for all that, you may or not get all your money back, but a professional sale barn will take out a bit of the headache and heartache from your failure with that horse.
Best of course is to be riding with a good trainer’s barn and so be on line to buy a very nice horse someone sells to move up or they are leaving horses, or the trainer knows of those kinds of horses in other reputable barns that may fit you.
I bought one such very nice horse when a lady was going thru a divorce and was needing to make a quick sale and her trainer contacted others to see who may have a client looking for that kind of horse at that price.
Those horses are worth more, but the chances are you will be happy with your new horse and it will hold it’s value later if your circumstances require you re-sell it.
[QUOTE=Malda;8721503]
That’s what I was afraid of.
First horse I bought was so hot she was unrideable. Seemed fine, just a little forward when I tried her out. After I bought her, the more I rode her the worse she got. Called the seller less that a month after I bought her and she admitted she was unable to ride the horse, either. Also admitted she didn’t tell me because she was afraid I wouldn’t buy her (obviously). Wouldn’t take her back. I tried for a year then sold her with full disclosure. The person who bought her sold her two years later. No one can ride this horse, I see her for sale every couple of years.
Bought an Icelandic from the breeder. Turned out he had a dangerous bolting issue. Called the breeder less than a month later and he admitted he knew of the bolting but didn’t tell me because “its the buyer’s responsibility to figure this stuff out”. I rode this horse two times, it was just two times that he didn’t bolt. Refused to take the horse back. Breeder eventually went out of business (he was old). Horse turned out to also have neurological issues. Had to put him down.
The horse in my sig. Besides stumbling (and eventually falling) he also had a habit of attacking other horses when I was riding him in the arena (never was able to untrain this behavior). Called the seller who just kept avoiding my questions. Also had to put him down.
I was just hoping that there’s maybe some legal recourse since I’m figuring out the problems less than a month after buying. Guess not. I’m doing everything I’m supposed to do: I ride the horse twice, I take a friend with me, I get vet checks.
No wonder I’m so paranoid about buying a fourth horse.
Thank you for the responses.[/QUOTE]
OK, one, you need to be more selective when you are looking at horses. Find out about the Sellers’ reputation. Get references if possible from past buyers. Ask as many questions as you can - has the horse ever had any issues, problems, vices, lameness, etc. The second is making sure you get a proper sales contract signed by both the Seller and yourself with everything spelled out.
That being said, in the first two scenarios you posted about, you could have potentially sued the Sellers for fraud, depending on what you told the Seller the horse was going to be used for, etc. At the end of the day, this may have been as simple as contacting an attorney and getting them to send a letter to the Seller and negotiating a return of the horse.
Before you start hunting for your next horse, read through this great article on disclosure and fraud in the horse world. It will help make you a better informed Buyer. www.equispec.com/disclosure-requirements-horse-sale. The other thing I would strongly suggest is taking a trainer with you on your next try-out. Someone who has a lot of experience with buying and selling will know how to “read between the lines” when a Seller is answering questions. Sometimes it can be really easy to pick up on “issues” with the horse simply buy how the Seller chooses their words! 
In most places horses are sold “where is, as is” and without any sort of warranty (there is a long UCC disclaimer used in contracts). Indeed at Common Law there was no requirement that the horse even be alive! So this is very much a “buyer beware” part of the economy.
Also, every horse is for sale for a reason. Sometimes the reason is benign (owner can no longer afford it, is moving to a place where they can’t keep it, has a rider physical issue, etc.). But a large measure of time the horse is for sale because there is a problem and current owner cannot or will not deal with it.
Put another way, nobody sells their best stock if they don’t have to.
When a person has a long string of “failed purchases” that suggests a failure to follow some practical guidelines. If the buyer has limited experience they need an honest coach (or maybe even an agent) to help them out. They need to ensure a PPE is done (as their lack of experience might cause them to miss signs of trouble). If the buyer’s rider skills are weak then they need a “test rider” whose skills are stronger to “push the horse” and test some limits.
None of these steps guarantee no problems but they increase the chances of identifying problems and giving the buyer the decision on whether or not to “buy a problem.”
All of us have to learn from out experiences, good or bad.
G.
Thank you for your responses. I’ll clarify a bit.
I’m looking for a gaited trail horse because I’m over 50 and have scoliosis, really trying to avoid trotting. Used to show hunters/equitation when I was a teenager, then exercised polo horses in my 20’s. I’m not an expert, but I’m also not a beginner.
Nobody cares about their reputation because gaited horses are so easy to sell (on the west coast) and it’s usually beginners/inexperienced people buying them anyway. The few private sellers who are honest unfortunately had horses with issues I’m not able/willing to handle.
The Iceland was the best. pony. ever. I bought him when he was 16 because I wanted a been there, done that horse. He was perfect. Good training, very responsive, willing, went anywhere on the trail, through water, sure-footed, barefoot, by himself, in a group, never fussed, never rushed home, excellent ground manners, vet and shoer loved him, the people I boarded him with loved him, even the dogs loved him and hung out with him.
Until his brain snapped. Literally. It turned out he had Head Shaking Syndrome, but it wasn’t brought on by sunlight, it was caused by stress. He would head shake when he didn’t understand what I was asking him to do, or at a sudden sound, or movement, he started head shaking after a vet visit, it was even brought on by eating. He even had episodes where he was on the ground for about 20-30 minutes, rubbing the right side of his face (it was always the right side), then lifting his head to rub his nose, the back down to rub his face. I had a long phone call with the very helpful people at Guardian Mask who said they have encountered this type of Head Shaking. I honestly believe it was the sudden pain of the trigeminal nerve that caused the random bolting.
The SSH should never have passed his PPE. The vet noticed that the hind end was very weak, but when I asked him about it he said that the horse needed more exercise. He didn’t say anything about neurological problems. I went through four trainers trying to figure out why he stumbled so much and his canter was so wonky. They said it was because he was gaited. Only through my own research did I suspect Wobbler’s, and at a clinic asked a different vet to check. She said he looked bad and would never have passed him so I hauled him to her clinic where x-rays showed parts in the neck where the bones were pinching the nerves. He was also an outstanding trail horse with great ground manners, even when he was only 5 (I would just ride him in the arena when no one else was around).
The first horse I bought, a Kentucky Mtn. Horse. I did bring a trainer for the second visit. She thought the horse was fine and would calm down with more riding, gaited horses tend to be hot. But the more she’s ridden, the worse she gets.
I no longer bring trainers with me because they have no idea what they’re looking for in gaited horses.
Thanks for reading, I actually feel better after writing this. Looking back I don’t think I could have anticipated the problems these horses had.
btw, I don’t hold the breeder responsible for knowing about the Head Shaking, but he did know about bolting and should have informed me.
Personally, I think it’s kind of nuts to expect that you can just return a horse.
As an amateur that may need to sell my OTTB in the near future for financial reasons, I would not be in a position to just take him back because someone thinks that buying a horse is akin to buying a microwave at Wal-Mart.
Who really thinks that there are guarantees that can be made wrt horses? What ever happened to buyer beware and doing your due diligence?
Fraud is one thing, but buying a horse is always risky. If you’re honestly shopping with the expectation that you can just return the horse, I don’t think you should be shopping. My opinion.
I’m not buying a horse with the intention of returning it. I never thought it was possible until reading the other thread, that’s why I was asking.
I called the sellers to get help with the horse. Their response was basically, “Yes, I willing misrepresented the horse to you. Too bad, he’s your problem now.”
As I said before, looking back I don’t think there’s anything I could have done differently.
[QUOTE=Manni01;8721536]
from a sellers point of view… I love all my horses and avoid to sell them. But if I need to sell one I try to represent them as correct as possible to the buyer because I want the sale to work out. The last time I sold a horse I told the buyers everything about the horse (it was a rather green horse) and I even recorded a video which showed how I handle her and how I warm her up and ride her (the buyer never watched it…) . And I gave a lot of tips to the buyer how to handle situations because the horse was green at that point, which I also told the buyers . While I owned the horse, I trailered to lessons every week, showed it and got qualifying scores for regionals. One year later, the buyer told me that this is horse is conformation wise not suited for dressage (thats what her trainer told her) and she would misbehave… I would love to take her back and I am worried to death about her because she is such a lovely trusting horse (at least she was), but she is now far away and I dont think I am willing to pay for the haul back and refund the money to get back a horse which might be destroyed :([/QUOTE]
You should take the horse back. How is The Pony?
[QUOTE=Malda;8721725]
I’m not buying a horse with the intention of returning it. I never thought it was possible until reading the other thread, that’s why I was asking.
I called the sellers to get help with the horse. Their response was basically, “Yes, I willing misrepresented the horse to you. Too bad, he’s your problem now.”
As I said before, looking back I don’t think there’s anything I could have done differently.[/QUOTE]
Yes, there is something you could have done. You could have hired a lawyer!
I have a hard time believing that there are absolutely no reputable breeders or trainers of gaited horses anywhere.
You might have to pay more to get away from the bottom of the barrel who are selling to beginners and don’t care. But I have to think they are out there…
[QUOTE=Manni01;8721536]
from a sellers point of view… I love all my horses and avoid to sell them. But if I need to sell one I try to represent them as correct as possible to the buyer because I want the sale to work out. The last time I sold a horse I told the buyers everything about the horse (it was a rather green horse) and I even recorded a video which showed how I handle her and how I warm her up and ride her (the buyer never watched it…) . And I gave a lot of tips to the buyer how to handle situations because the horse was green at that point, which I also told the buyers . While I owned the horse, I trailered to lessons every week, showed it and got qualifying scores for regionals. One year later, the buyer told me that this is horse is conformation wise not suited for dressage (thats what her trainer told her) and she would misbehave… I would love to take her back and I am worried to death about her because she is such a lovely trusting horse (at least she was), but she is now far away and I dont think I am willing to pay for the haul back and refund the money to get back a horse which might be destroyed :([/QUOTE]
I just have to say, I think this advise is absolutely ridiculous! It sounds like Manni01 did everything they could to make sure the Buyer was aware of the horses training, routine, etc. It is not her fault that, one year later, the Buyer decided she purchased an unsuitable mount for the discipline she wanted to do. Why should she be forced to take the horse back because the Buyer decided a year later she made a mistake? Add to that the fact that the horse has been out of Manni01’s care for a year, who knows what kind of training has been done on the horse…or undone, wear and tear, injuries, etc…and also add in the fact that not everyone can afford to do that - purchase the horse back and then pay to have them shipped home.
Sometimes it truly is a matter of “buyer beware” and “sold as is.” This is one of those cases.
I’m concerned about the horse’s welfare, not about the buyer’s money.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
