[QUOTE=CelticAire;8762830]
Do other people really see it as a huge imposition to stop or walk on the rail for a few minutes while those taking lessons jump? I ask honestly, because this was never a huge imposition in my mind. For me it is something you do out of common courtesy to your fellow riders and respect for your trainer.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, yes, that is an imposition. I’ll always yield the right of way to someone in a lesson but I’m not going to stop what I’m doing.
[QUOTE=mayhew;8764596]
Honestly, yes, that is an imposition. I’ll always yield the right of way to someone in a lesson but I’m not going to stop what I’m doing.[/QUOTE]
YEp, I agree. I mean, if someone is doing something really complicated, sometimes I’d pull into the center somewhere out of the way and give them the ring for the 2 minutes it takes to do a course, but that’s usually out of self-preservation more than anything.
[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8762839]
The problem is the barn and trainer and not that arena etiquette has died.[/QUOTE]
This.
I’d also say that if you genuinely feel unsafe because of the prevailing culture at this barn, or if you find your instructor is not running the lessons as crisply or as focused as you want, you might want to move on. Or at least try out some lessons elsewhere quietly to see if you find a better match.
i don’t think you are going to get the culture of this barn to change, particularly if the instructor herself is so relaxed about ring etiquette.
[QUOTE=CelticAire;8762830]
Do other people really see it as a huge imposition to stop or walk on the rail for a few minutes while those taking lessons jump? I ask honestly, because this was never a huge imposition in my mind. For me it is something you do out of common courtesy to your fellow riders and respect for your trainer.[/QUOTE]
FWIW - at a lot of barns, this would mean a substantial portion of most hacks would consist of stopping or walking on the rail, which is obviously not very productive for the non-lessoning rider. That is particularly true for the “prime time” hours (normally the after school-after work crowd) when the majority of clients will be at the barn.
I think the general consensus in most barns I’ve ridden at is that you show courtesy toward a jumping / lessoning rider and give them right of way, but not the exclusive use of the arena.
I’m also getting back into riding, and went to watch lessons at several barns before picking a trainer. As a late middle-aged re-rider, I’m not into either chaos or teenagers, so any chaotic barn / lesson ring got crossed off my list. I didn’t feel comfortable trying to avoid up-down kids while working on myself. But if you do like this barn, you might want to see if the trainer will work with you at a time that is NOT so busy. I set 7:30 am on Saturday as my lesson time. I have the ring and the trainer all to myself, so I feel like I’m really getting my money’s worth.
Somebody may have said this already, but you should just ask the trainer what’s going on with the lack of ring etiquette. It’s your money and your skull, so frankly it’s your right to call her on it. She needs to own how her ring is being conducted. She may need to be shamed into educating the rug-rats about how to pass, and to pay attention to YOU and work with others later.
When I’m not the one jumping, I am always looking over my shoulder to get/stay out of the way of the person who is. I was taught it’s your job to look out for everybody, especially the person jumping. At the same time, it’s their job to look out for you, and everybody should be saying “no, pardon me, no, after you” like that old comedy routine! My opinion on that has not changed over the past 40 years, and I don’t care if other riders do have a 9-5 job (I do too, but mine is more like 8-8), it’s just selfish to think they’re entitled to do what they want - and inconvenience others - just because they’re a busy person. That doesn’t mean others can’t ride while someone is jumping, but if they can’t manage to learn the course and stay out of the way, then they should be parked in the corner until they can.
Teenagers are so d@mned entitled nowadays, and have never been made to have manners or mind, that I actually decided early on that I would not ride at a barn with any. :mad:
Your first issue of horses not passing left to left and passing that closely is not cool. The latter is very dangerous. I’m surprised your instructor lets that kind of thing go on for insurance purposes alone.
As for the lessons, if you look at it from the other side, do you really expect a horse owner who pays to board their horse at the facility, to not ride when lessons are going on? While it does seem like the people at your barn are a bit out of touch with what else is going on in the ring, that’s how it is in most places. Most of the boarders at my barn still try to work their rides around lesson times, but sometimes schedules just don’t allow for that. At our barn, the instructor calls out the fences a rider will be jumping and we all just stay out of the way. A certain degree of common sense and courtesy comes into play. Thankfully people at my barn have both.
Maybe I missed it but am I the only one who thinks it’s uncommon and kind of disrespectful to have people who aren’t in the lesson jumping while others are having a jumping lesson?
I have no problem with people hacking during my lessons, I flat during theirs. I would be a little upset if they were jumping while I was trying to jump though. It’s not a warm up ring at a show. I’m not paying to wait for the instructor to reset jumps or deal with refusals, etc. when a non-lesson person screws up.
It sounds like a free for all at the OP’s barn. That’s just asking for problems.
[QUOTE=GoodTimes;8765365]
Maybe I missed it but am I the only one who thinks it’s uncommon and kind of disrespectful to have people who aren’t in the lesson jumping while others are having a jumping lesson?
I have no problem with people hacking during my lessons, I flat during theirs. I would be a little upset if they were jumping while I was trying to jump though. It’s not a warm up ring at a show. I’m not paying to wait for the instructor to reset jumps or deal with refusals, etc. when a non-lesson person screws up.
It sounds like a free for all at the OP’s barn. That’s just asking for problems.[/QUOTE]
for the most part, I’m with you. No jumping when someone in a lesson is jumping.
Yes, “all the horses are friends” until one of them kicks the other and someone has to pay the vet bill. Ask the trainer who it will be.
You just need a new barn, sorry.
Some people ride like a polo match (all up on one another) and some people are more comfortable calling “heads UP” in that tone that means “you’d better move because I’m not stopping” but if you’re not one of them that’s OK. There are lots of barns where everyone leaves at least one horse length and there’s a separate ring for borders vs lessons. They will generally be less conveniently located and probably more expensive but it is worth it. Never buy the first one you see, observe lessons at a few barns before you commit to one.
[QUOTE=Mardi;8765511]
Yes, “all the horses are friends” until one of them kicks the other and someone has to pay the vet bill. Ask the trainer who it will be.[/QUOTE]
I wonder if the trainer even knew about the too close passing thing with the comment about them being friends.
Did the OP actually mention it to the trainer? If the trainer was doing anything (adjusting a jump, itching their eye, sneezing) they could have easily missed that.
[QUOTE=GoodTimes;8765365]
Maybe I missed it but am I the only one who thinks it’s uncommon and kind of disrespectful to have people who aren’t in the lesson jumping while others are having a jumping lesson?
I have no problem with people hacking during my lessons, I flat during theirs. I would be a little upset if they were jumping while I was trying to jump though. It’s not a warm up ring at a show. I’m not paying to wait for the instructor to reset jumps or deal with refusals, etc. when a non-lesson person screws up.
It sounds like a free for all at the OP’s barn. That’s just asking for problems.[/QUOTE]
GoodTimes, thank you. I think you’ve summed up much more clearly what I was trying to convey. As I’ve read over the comments and thought about it more comparing it to the warm up ring at a show is very accurate!
I agree–the majority of my frustration stems out of trying to avoid others jumping and careening around while I’m taking my jump lesson. And as I’ve said, at this barn there is PLENTY of room to flat whether in the ‘arena’ or the grassy part, where you don’t have to do your circles, lead changes, or whatevers right in the middle of my lines.
[QUOTE=CelticAire;8766810]
I agree–the majority of my frustration stems out of trying to avoid others jumping and careening around while I’m taking my jump lesson. And as I’ve said, at this barn there is PLENTY of room to flat whether in the ‘arena’ or the grassy part, where you don’t have to do your circles, lead changes, or whatevers right in the middle of my lines.[/QUOTE]
You need to get over people riding during your lessons. Doing circles, lead changes, etc should NOT impact your lesson unless they can’t steer at all. If they are jumping during the jumping portion of your lesson, however, that is something most of us say isn’t really great. Flatting/hacking (which includes circles and lead changes) is really something that you can’t expect them not to do, despite having another ring right next door. If you don’t like riding with other people in the ring, find a new barn and make sure you discuss how they run their lessons/ring use so you fully understand.
FWIW - riding with someone who can’t ride with others is a huge pet peeve of mine. You can pick out the riders that have always ridden alone or in a protected way. They are the ones I avoid like the plague because they just don’t understand how to ride in a ring with other people and tend to get in the way.
People that understand physics and geometry can easily ride through a line while someone else is jumping a course. You just watch/plan and make sure you are through their path before they get there. It’s actually just the basics of even flatting with others.
Barns that do lessons are dependent on trainers to set the bar high for arena behavior.
The assumption is that a certain percentage of those in the ring are some version of beginner and those beginners deserve not to have the crap scared out them every ride. If the instructors don’t demand proper ring etiquette, they are omitting a major point of safety.
Every lesson barn where I have ridden asked that all riders track in the direction of the lesson when in anything but a very large ring. Most didn’t permit jumping outside of lessons anyhow. Lesson students always get right of way and those hacking are expected to listen and know where students are going. They have to respect that if they are hacking through a beginner lesson, that there will be steering issues, ponies coming to unplanned halts, and nervous riders etc. Every barn seems to have one person who feels it is their job to “toughen up” the newbies by creating horrifying schooling ring scenarios during every lesson. It is the trainer’s job to control the ring to make it as safe as possible.
OP, this doesn’t sound like a barn that puts the safety and confidence of its students first.
[QUOTE=Linny;8766960]
Every barn seems to have one person who feels it is their job to “toughen up” the newbies by creating horrifying schooling ring scenarios during every lesson. [/QUOTE]
Not sure if that is directed at me because I think the OP is being a bit over the top in her expectations in a shared ring. If it is, to be very clear, I don’t find it my responsibility to “toughen up” any newbies, but I do find it my responsibility to keep myself and my horse safe…and to have productive rides, even if someone is taking a lesson.
These are the riders I most frequently experience:
People who are clueless and just ride in their own little world, only considering what other people are doing if they are in their direct path. This rider has an amazing ability to be right where you want to be, no matter what, which means a lot of extra circles for you.
The people who don’t give a rip about other riders and are going to do what they want, when they want.
Those that pay attention to what others are doing at all times and navigate their way around the arena, keeping safe distances at most times (every once in a while things don’t quite work out.)
Those that spend so much time looking at their horse’s neck they have no idea where other riders are and other riders have no idea where they are going or what they might do next because they aren’t looking up.
Numbers 1 and 4 are the hardest to ride with, IMO. Number 2 can be tricky but is often fairly easy because you just know to stay out of their way. But, if you’ve got someone who is doing shoulder in, looking in as if they will end the shoulders in by going into a circle but the continue straight? Good luck with that one. :lol: God forbid you get a number 2 that is also a 4. Just leave the ring whenever they show up. 
They WILL run you over and you will not be able to avoid them because you can’t tell where they are going.
I fall into #3. I know where people are and where they are going. If I couldn’t hear the trainer tell rider the course, I will ask so I can stay out of the way while still working my horse. I might go across a line that is being jumped, but only if the horse is still far enough off that if my horse stopped in its tracks, we’d all have time to go to Plan B.
RugBug, that comment was NOT directed at you. I have clear recall of a rider at the barn where I learned to ride 40+ years ago nearly slamming her junior hunter into me on a lesson horse, learning how to canter. Since then I have seen repeats over many years of riding at different barns.
I think what is not coming across to many people in this thread is the “free for all-ness” of what’s happening during the jump portions of our lessons (I usually watch the two after mine and it’s the same for theirs). I get a sense of “mightier than thou” from many of the comments.
I can’t say I’ve ever ridden at any huge show mill/lesson mill stables as many other commentors have said. Most of what we have out here is 30 stall barns tops, some are more show focused than others but there aren’t any huge operations out here.
I don’t mind people flatting in my lessons. I don’t care if they jump while I’m doing the flatting part of my lesson. But, if they could NOT jump while I’m taking the jump part of my lesson that would be great. And if they could pay attention and ride like Rugbug’s #3 that would be great.
I’m not paying to wait for the instructor to reset jumps or deal with refusals, etc. when a non-lesson person screws up.
- Those that pay attention to what others are doing at all times and navigate their way around the arena, keeping safe distances at most times (every once in a while things don’t quite work out.)
However, what ends up happening is that my horse is getting ready to jump, no stirrups, no reins hands on head or some other training thing like that and suddenly there is a fat pony directly in front of me with an 8 yr old trying to make him trot.
Or a someone ducking in to take the same fence as me from the other direction and then chuckling about how we could do a show of trick riding or something.
Or on rarer occasions, someone not steering well and suddenly their circle ends up colliding with me. (Oh, and as an aside, when I’m talking their circles or whatever are right in my line I mean, we end up in a 2 sec collision course because they weren’t paying attention for whatever reason, not I have plenty of time to adjust).
Or any of the various teenagers/college riders with earbuds in or cell phones out riding as Rugbug says:
- People who are clueless and just ride in their own little world, only considering what other people are doing if they are in their direct path. This rider has an amazing ability to be right where you want to be, no matter what, which means a lot of extra circles for you.
Look, I’m not trying to be over the top. I think that tends to be a symptom of the medium of discussion on the internet instead of in person. I’d say there is an incident like above about 75% of the time during the jumping portions of our lessons which is all that really irks me at this point.
I think this will be my last post on this thread, but thank you everyone for the interesting discussion.
I think the advice that it is time to find a different barn is the only advice that works here. This barn sounds poorly run and I can not see how anyone would learn anything if the ring is as you describe. It sounds like a free for all.
Clearly the trainer at this barn has not taught any of the students about being polite and how to properly share the ring.
The comments you appear to be upset about are simply people commenting on various posts, yours included. You wanted people to stop and walk while you jumped. You are not likely to get that. But there is a huge difference between people doing nothing while you jump and total mayhem while you jump.
I think ring savvy is genetic.
But your ring does sound like a cluster-fk.
Might not be the place for you. Sounds like I’d hate it, too.
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