Rewarding with sugar cubes during a ride

[netg]

If I do something which is either physically or mentally taxing for either horse, they get a sugar cube after. By the time they get it, they no longer see it as a reward for what they did right, but it helps ensure they are feeling good about training, not anxious after the hard work. For the same reason, they typically get one sugar cube when I dismount.

We kiss at them to signal a sugar cube. My trainer has been able to use that when beginners have panicked and horses were cantering away with them - not bolting, but responding to the sudden tight clenching with no stopping. It’s kind of useful in that way.

If I had the timing, I would consider clicker training - I think done well it is a very excellent way to make sure your horse knows what it’s being praised for.

[sascha]

@TheHotSensitiveType

I go through a pocket of treats every ride… My mare is extremely lazy and would have loved nothing more than having an owner that just told her how pretty she was and left her out in the pasture. In an effort to improve her attitude and try under saddle, at the suggestion of my main instructor I clicker trained her under saddle. She gives me a solid effort for anything? She gets clicked and gets a treat. After the first ride, she already had the idea and after the 3rd ride she totally understood what was going on (and I learned that I need to sit deeper in the saddle to not end up on her neck when she does the sliding stop for her treats! Bonus!!! )

Clicker training is what helped us make the jump from working 1st schooling some 2nd level to working 2nd schooling some 3rd level… Sure there are issues, for instance: Maresy: Stopping… “That was good and I deserve a treat!” Me: “No, get back to work, and you wait until I click you.” Maresy: Goes back to work until I click her. She surprised me the other day with obnoxious begging on the ground for treats… nipped that in the rear within a few minutes.

I have worked with horses that do not get hand fed treats at all for MONTHS until they are respectful and obedient on the ground. Even then, I still limit the number of treats they get (often only one when getting caught) because it can re-ignite the pushy behavior I worked so hard on getting past.

Treats don’t re-ignite pushy behaviour. Lax rules about treats and allowing horses to ask for treats re-ignite pushy behaviour.

I had a cool revelation a little while back. A student said to me, “You always put your hand out and offer the treat.” Yup. Treats are at my discretion always. Yelling at me when I come into the barn, and making candy face when not being worked with are totally acceptable. But so help me, I am not a Pez dispenser and there will be no disobedience allowed to beg or demand treats.

Horses are and are not like kids. If you give into them once, they will try again. The difference is that (sometimes) you can reason with kids and explain there was method to your madness and that it was a one off. Horses don’t understand one offs and it’s mean and stupid to expect them to.

[merrygoround]

I make a habit of saying “Good boy” or girl, when handing over a treat on the ground. Done consistently, it keeps thing tidy and progressive when in the saddle. Now pausing at an apple tree while on a hack is a whole 'nother thing. :winkgrin::winkgrin:

[sascha]

@Mondo

I don’t have a problem with treats as rewards during the ride. I know a very well respected judge who has sugar cubes on the ledge around the school. If the horse does something very well, she allows him to eat one.

However: please don’t routinely give your horse sugar cubes or peppermints (or other candy). Find another treat that isn’t sugar. It does the exact same thing to their teeth that it does to ours. Horses do not eat sugar as a natural part of their diet. It really isn’t good for them. But yeah, you are only giving a tiny sugar cube, I get it. Those add up! Just MHO - you can obviously feed your horse whatever you choose.

Please give a choice that will dissolve, is colourless, other than candy or sugar. LOL

Horses should make more than enough saliva to wash the sugar out of their teeth. Some of us can’t feed our horses, hard fruit or veg, nor manufactured or baked treats due to throat/choke issues. No need to lay a blanket of worry where none is necessary

[Scribbler]

@sascha

Please give a choice that will dissolve, is colourless, other than candy or sugar. LOL

Horses should make more than enough saliva to wash the sugar out of their teeth. Some of us can’t feed our horses, hard fruit or veg, nor manufactured or baked treats due to throat/choke issues. No need to lay a blanket of worry where none is necessary

I go through a big handful of treats if I’m doing some focused trick training. Like that would be half a box of sugar cubes. I used to feed carrots cut up but started finding rotted root vegetables at the bottom of every jacket pocket. So for cost and convenience I buy a 40 lb bag of extruded feed for $20, rather than the same stuff repackaged as treats at twice the price.

If it’s only one or two treats a day it doesn’t matter and that’s a good point about not having greenish grey feed slobber all over the bit!

[Mondo]

“Horses should make more than enough saliva to wash the sugar out of their teeth.” Yes, well that’s the crux of the issue. Sugar by itself doesn’t harm your teeth. It’s when the sugar mixes with enzymes in your saliva that the harmful acid is produced.

But, to each her own.

[WildLittleWren]

@sascha

Your friend is exactly the type of rider who shouldn’t ever give treats from the saddle. The horse didn’t spontaneously learn to be able to extract treats by stopping and turning, she trained him to do it. She trained the naughtiness right into him. It would be dead simple for a very experienced trainer to fix, but the fix would only last as long as the owner was able to maintain boundaries, which … not likely lol

Trust me…I know it! She is a very…“permissive”…er…push over type of horse owner. Trust me when I say this isn’t the ONLY bad habit she has “installed” on her horse. Sadly, she also isn’t open to any opinions or ideas on how to fix it.

Myself, personally, I guess I have just never fed treats under saddle. I like to give pats and good girl/good boy. I am sure if you do it right, it would be beneficial. My mare is not super food motivated either, however, she positively GLOWS when she gets a good girl :lol:…I swear she grows an inch or two in pride every time

[Scribbler]

@WildLittleWren

Trust me…I know it! She is a very…“permissive”…er…push over type of horse owner. Trust me when I say this isn’t the ONLY bad habit she has “installed” on her horse. Sadly, she also isn’t open to any opinions or ideas on how to fix it.

Myself, personally, I guess I have just never fed treats under saddle. I like to give pats and good girl/good boy. I am sure if you do it right, it would be beneficial. My mare is not super food motivated either, however, she positively GLOWS when she gets a good girl :lol:…I swear she grows an inch or two in pride every time

When you say good girl to my horse she halts and looks for a treat

I have taken to wither scratches which seem to communicate something good to her and haven’t been connected to treats.

[JLR1]

I do, but have to admit most trainers/clinicians I have ridden with frown on this. My horse isn’t a beggar per se but there have been a few times where I had to laugh when he craned his head around for a treat because he thought he did something awesome. My horse is food motivated so I like to use treats as a special 'bonus" for his hard work.

[sascha]

@Mondo

“Horses should make more than enough saliva to wash the sugar out of their teeth.” Yes, well that’s the crux of the issue. Sugar by itself doesn’t harm your teeth. It’s when the sugar mixes with enzymes in your saliva that the harmful acid is produced.

But, to each her own.

I will let you know when I our teeth start falling apart, but don’t hold your breath. I’ve been feeding many mints a day to many horses over time with no issue.

I would be very interested to read research on horse saliva and sugar though, so if you can point me in the right direction with a link or two??

[2Below]

I do for mounting. When my FEI horse was learning piaffe he got a lot of sugar, and now he’s working on passage and it’s been difficult for him so if he shows a good effort he gets praise and sugar. I usually have some in my pocket and any horse that had a great moment or I want to let them know that was really special they get one.

[MsM]

When I got my horse, if you said “Good Boy!” while under saddle he would stop dead. It seemed his last trainer said that and then hopped off when he did something good that they had been working on. So anticipation is his thing!
I do give him treats - bits of carrot or sugar. He gets one with the bit. He gets one to stand for mounting. While riding, I have given him sugar for breakthrough moments. I tap him on the side of the neck to tell him to reach around. So far limiting treats to specific times and the neck tap has worked well and he hasn’t really tried at other times.

[TheHotSensitiveType]

@sascha

Treats don’t re-ignite pushy behaviour. Lax rules about treats and allowing horses to ask for treats re-ignite pushy behaviour.

While in principle I agree with you, these are horses that have had years and years of this behavior being rewarded with treats… Once I have gotten through to them to stay out of my space and begging gets them nothing but work, I just don’t want to trigger the old behavior by giving them a treat (it does re-trigger them since this is a many year reinforced behavior although it is much easier to get them remembering the new rules now). These are not my horses so it is just easier to say no hand treats for pony than have to deal with regression every time some one else hand feeds a treat. Could I? Sure, but I do this for fun (not being paid) so just don’t feel like dealing with it in what horse time I have.

My mare on the other hand hasn’t gotten away with it even once with me (I HATE pushy behavior) so her trying it with me really surprised me. She is a turkey…

[Mondo]

There’s plenty more, but honestly, sascha, I don’t know why you are so defensive. I don’t care if you give your horse a glucose IV. It’s none of my business. Seriously though, you are correct in that you probably aren’t harming your horse (or its teeth) by giving sugar as treats. I just happen to think if you don’t get the horse interested in pure sugar, something that he would never eat if left to his own devices, he won’t miss it. Just my opinion, not carved in stone or trying to convince anyone else otherwise. You seemed to miss the first paragraph of my post wherein I mentioned a well known S judge who keeps sugar cubes in the arena so they are handy when she’s training her horses. I think that’s kind of sweet, and I sure wouldn’t presume to judge her!

[sascha]

How does offering those disgusting sugar licks free choice compare to feeding sugar or mints as treats to horses that don’t waste their grazing/eating time on a sugar lick?

And the first article? Um, any scientific anything? Did I miss it, or is it just a magazine saying chocolate can be deadly for pets so sugar must be bad for horses?

[sascha]

Not being defensive, just calling bull when I see it. Throw some scientific evidence at me! Please! But don’t throw the wouldn’t occur in nature line at me. Our domestic horses get along just fine with many things they wouldn’t normally come into contact with if they were wild.

[Mondo]

I repeat: I don’t know why you are so defensive. Stop it. Google it yourself FFS.

[Mondo]

Do you own research. You are now boring me.

[Scribbler]

I can see why professional trainers might take treats out of their repertoire, especially if they aren’t actually versed in clicker training. If I am working with someone else’s horse I don’t start up clicker training or treats unless I know that the owner has both the desire and the skill to continue in a coherent manner. Otherwise you are setting both horse and owner up for frustration.

For myself I have found clicker training to be amazing for tricks and for behavior. It has solved girthiness tacking up and head tossing at the mounting block. It has taught my mare to learn and shown me how fast they do learn when motivated.

I have not been able to integrate it truly productively under saddle but do give a treat at the end of a shooling session, if we open a gate, or if maresy picks up my jacket from the fence and hands it to me. I also do use clicker occasionally to reinforce halts from a canter on the trails.

I think if you want to feed treats and use reward plus training it is worth finding out about clicker training basics.

[Margaret_Freeman]

The Spanish Riding School has sugar pockets sewn into those lovely coats.