Rich Fellers

Rapping, not raping.

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Rapping. Not raping. Not sex abuse. Hitting their legs painfully during jumping practice so they pick their legs up higher.

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Rapping Definition:

Poling or rapping is the practice of hitting a horse on the legs as it goes over a jump, to make it think it hit the fence hard (due to the pain), so the animal will pick his legs up higher the next time. It is usually performed using a long bamboo stick, which is smacked on the cannon bones of the horse.

Poling is illegal under FEI rules, as well as under many national rules.[1] Show jumpers and hunt seat competitors were the most common users of this technique, as a rail down is often a deciding factor in winning a class. However, the practice is seen today as too painful for the horse.

In popular cultureEdit

Poling can be seen in a scene of the movie National Velvet , when Mi Taylor hits the Pie on the legs as Velvet rides him over an obstacle in a training session.

It can also be seen being used by Harry DeLeyer while working with his son’s horse in the documentary Harry and Snowman.

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Oh! Thanks for clarifying. Still absolutely horrible but I’m relieved it wasn’t what I thought. I hope he does real time for his crimes.

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The descriptions above are sort of the plain vanilla version of poling or rapping.

Their are also versions where the pole is electrified (GM references this in his biography :nauseated_face:) or has tacks in it and a really lovely version where the horse’s shins are sored first so the rap with the pole is more painful. Devin Ryan’s expulsion from the Hampton Classic in 2015 was due to his horse’s legs showing clear signs of soring.

These are the things that make me despair for the sport.

And someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe it’s only illegal if done on the showgrounds under FEI/USE rules. You can rap and pole at home all you want. (In Devin Ryan’s case, it wasn’t the poling, it was that his horse’s shins were raw.) I believe the FEI rules state you can’t trailer off the showground once the show is in progress, in other words, you can’t haul to a neighboring farm to pole your horses and then go back to the show.

I actually don’t think the rap with the bamboo pole, done sparingly, is all that awful. But not a technique I’ve ever used or ever will. The alternative, which you see in warm up rings all the time, is to put the horse to a really deep spot over a warm up fence right before going into the ring, the deep spot causing the horse to make an extra effort to clear the fence or rap themselves. Not a fan of this method because I want my horse to trust me to get him to a good spot; deliberately getting him to a bad one that he has to make a huge effort to jump out or hit himself doesn’t seem like a good idea to me.

An interesting alternative that I learned from a jumper trainer and have used is to have one or two people stand at the back rail of the fence, and when the horse is approaching, lift the back rail and wave it up and down, lifting first one end and then the other. The horse then REALLY focuses on the back rail and tends to jump more carefully.

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George accident from rapping/poling a horse

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After the GM scandal emerged, I read his biography. I was shocked that people still supported him and bowed to his horsemanship when he admits to “training” methods like this. Of course, I’ve also been shocked by the ongoing support (US Team) of Devin Ryan – who was a “hand picked protegé” of Morris (said on his own website). Clearly, our sport has a high tolerance for poor behavior and the methods passed down by the “Gods” of the sport, continue.

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Funny, not so funny story about poling.

Over 50 years ago, jumping stable, somehow our trainer had heard of poling and that a bamboo pole worked best.
Found a bamboo pole and we were thinking poling was a way to teach horses to jump anything, not to be distracted by things in and around the jump.

We draped some old towels over the pole and laid it in the cavalletti cross rails, let horses see and smell them and popped over that.
Then we had two people raising the pole a bit, horses jumping the cross rails.
Then we raised it a bit more and were wiggling the pole and the towels were flapping lightly.
Horses jumped that fine, we were careful not to spook the horses, the idea was to instill confidence.
Eventually we were jumping little oxers, the ones holding the pole and shaking, towels flying around behind the last pole, horses really tight with their knees and over jumping with glee over the new thing.

It seemed so involved, we decided we really didn’t want to spend time “poling” horses.
We didn’t learn until years later what poling really was meant to be.:stuck_out_tongue:

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I remember poling being referenced in the Sam Savitt book “Vicki and the black horse”, and it was put across as something that would save a horse from a rotational fall. The author was careful to describe the character using poling as doing so “lightly with bamboo, so the horse thought he misguided the fence slightly”, not to inflict pain or fear, or damage the front legs.

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I don’t think GM was actively poling the horse w/ the steel pipe.
The idea behind the pipe is that it is heavy and if you set it in a deep jump cup, it tends to stay put rather than fall, so a “lazy” horse will get clonked hard enough that it makes an impression.
(I am not a fan of this, for the record.)
In this case, he was using a short length of pipe and a “skinny” fence, and the horse did hit it hard enough to knock it out of the cups and it went end up on the landing side and horse landed on it.

I’ve always disliked poling as described in previous posts because you are in effect lying to the horse about whether his effort over the fence was sufficient.

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And this is precisely the reason a good horseman / coach / trainer would never do this, and never allow it to be done in their watch. Basic safety risks like this get covered in Pony Club 101.

We already know GM is not a good person; can we now also dispense with the myth that he’s a great horseman or coach? Why on earth are people still paying take lessons from him?

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The cult of personality is strong with this one.

See also: why do people continue to take lessons with Paul Valliere?

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Thank you for doing this!

I always find it sad that people discourage teenagers away from equine science/studies programs. While I do agree that other degrees may be more useful, I would rather see a young person go to college and get a degree rather than go straight into the “horse business”. If this means going through an equine program, so be it.

Both my husband and I have Bachelor of Science degrees in Large Animal Science, which was the degree you received if you followed the Equine Business track at our university. Neither of us had any idea what we wanted to do “when we grew up” but both of us were heavily involved with horses and this degree program attracted us to the university.

The program, for one, is how we met, for which I am forever grateful, and as Ghazzu points out, it was filled with required courses on business management, accounting, law courses–both general and equine-focused, math, and many science courses. After completing our degrees, which included doing required internships over the summer with horse businesses, we both agreed that we did not want to make our living that way. Rather, we wanted to keep horses as a hobby.

This led to both of our finding great careers “outside” of horses, but still linked to what we learned in college. My husband took elective courses in criminal justice and followed that career path, and I did a lot of work establishing a university-wide newsletter that covered happenings in the equine program, as well as tutoring for the university writing center. Those experiences led me to publishing, and I work in medical research publishing (where my science degree has gotten me further than an English/journalism degree).

I promise I’m not trying to derail this thread, but so much of this discussion revolves around teaching what is, and is not, a proper way to run a business. The majority of people I know who work outside of horses are surprised by the vehement response from “professionals” to USE Safe Sport requirements for members, which are easier than the sexual harassment training we go through at work. And for those of us who have done working student stints, many of us have been exposed to the imbalance of power in those relationships, even when it doesn’t result in sexual assault/rape.

Any encouragement we can give to young people to go to college is at least one way to help protect them as a professional as they learn how to run a business properly and also hopefully expose them to a bigger world than the fish bowl of horse sports. In addition, the strong campus focus on protecting yourself from assault and rape may be the first time young people are exposed to that type of information, especially if they’ve homeschooled or done online schooling.

This doesn’t solve all the issues discussed, but education is always a start. It’s just shame that it takes place when most people are already considered adults.

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I think the reason that is discourage now days is that with the cost of a four year degree versus what one makes starting out in an equine job, they will never be able to afford to pay off that debt or eat.

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There is a huge difference between getting a BS in Animal Science through a university college of agriculture and getting a degree in equine studies from some small college that doesn’t prepare you for gainful employment in the real world.

Getting a degree in equine studies from Horsecrazy College, at a total cost of $Ridiculous, and graduating owing $Stupid in student loans is a losing proposition and people who are not independently wealthy should absolutely be discouraged from doing so.

On the other hand, attending the University of Kentucky and majoring in Equine Science is an entirely different proposition and I wouldn’t necessarily discourage someone from doing that. https://equine.ca.uky.edu/

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Sadly, it’s the same situation for a lot of careers, including veterinarians (student debt versus starting salaries). Those starting out in my industry face the same problems of not making enough money to live on despite having PhDs.

I think the problem with the horse industry is that, unlike with many other careers, you can get away without having a college degree, and, therefore, jump right into business without getting any education about how to properly run one or any experience working in the “real” world.

I don’t know what the answer is to fixing this particular problem other than encouraging young people to go to college no matter the degree rather than telling them you don’t need a college degree to be a professional horse person.

Fortunately, there are ways to obtain 4-year degrees at university that don’t put people in a huge amount of debt. I had half of my tuition paid for by an academic scholarship and the other half I paid for through applying for an interest-free student loan, which I was able to pay off rather quickly. I also worked 3 jobs in college to afford my horse and living expenses.

I am far from the type of person who says pull yourself up by your bootstraps, but there are ways to obtain the education you would like if you have a good academic background going into college and are willing to sift through a lot of different student loan options to find one that works for you.

The good news is–for any hardcore horse person–a college/university schedule allows a lot of time for outside jobs, especially with horses, since you can usually schedule your classes around your jobs, especially after freshman year. :blush:

Edited to add: Again, not trying to derail the thread, but it does get tiring seeing equine programs–no matter what school they are at–being constantly bashed on the forums. As with any college program and college/university, there are good ones and bad ones. I’m in my 40s now, and I have never regretted the education I received, but I’ve seen a lot of young people skip college and face difficult careers in the equine industry because they were told that a degree was unnecessary. This is obviously not serving the industry well, at least in my opinion.

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The problem with this type of advice is that some people are not able to keep their head above water taking on so much outside of their learning time. Some people need their not in class hours time to study and do homework.
It is great that others are able to work three jobs, get great scholarships, etc.

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Exactly. It’s the ROI on the degree itself that’s the challenge.

Honestly… if someone has the aptitude to go to college and do a business degree, but wants to do their own horse business or other small business… do one of these entrepreneurship bachelor degree programs. They can then gain necessary accounting, finance, human resources, management and marketing knowledge.

I say this after having gotten an MBA… which is also general in nature. It gave me exposure to key concepts of contract law, accounting, financial management, project management, and business strategy. Though I a don’t work outside the home at present, the general background knowledge is useful in many many basic life situations.

With that said… none of these courses are going to “teach” someone not to rape children. Because that’s a basic “Duh!” thing. But, the courses can, and do, cover repercussions for poor or unethical business practices. Specifically, when it comes to business law and marketing courses… you learn the importance of building a brand and reputation, and key ways contracts can become problematic. THAT aspect of a business degree program would indeed be useful for many many people in the horse industry. Also, learning how to analyze the industry, and think about your own place in the industry as a professional (what are your skill sets), and then put together an actual business plan? Well… it seems like that would help many folks be more successful.

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I am always interested to hear about good programs that do an excellent job of educating their students and placing them in solid career paths.

It is my experience that most schools that offer an “Equine Science” degree don’t do a great job of either the equine or the science. You can’t really teach riding from beginner to a high level in four years, especially not without substantial investment in top coaches or really high quality horses, neither of which a general university is set up to do. Most of the schools offering this are not offering strong science departments either. And most of them are small, private, and expensive. The schools that are offering stronger sciences, usually teach a more general Animal Science, and give an Animal Science degree. They might dabble in horses and have some around but they don’t advertise as training people for equestrian careers.

(Some examples of these would include Cal Poly, both Pomona and San Luis Obispo, which if you can get in, would certainly provide an excellent education. They are definitely more veterinary, reproduction, and nutrition oriented.)

I think your point is a good one, that there could be good college programs that we’d be excited to send people through, and I will think on it, and how and whether that would make more sense than suggesting people take a straight business or animal science degree. There used to be some horse-driven programs like the BHSAI certification program at Yorkshire Riding Centre, but I can’t think of any that exist now. I think it’s hard to beat the combination of experience that you’d get in our current times from getting a more general degree and creating contacts and expectations there and then getting your horse experience working as someone’s assistant.

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I’ve taught in different college programs, including equine studies programs. Here’s my take - an equine studies program isn’t going to prepare you for the equine business because they spend a lot of time teaching basics since many students come in with very little equine background. We had students who had never ridden a horse show up saying they were going to major in Equine Studies. Usually they weeded themselves out, but some continued. Are they now working in the business - no. Some equine studies programs have the current modalities to teach their students (MagnaWave, Theraplate, walkers, etc.) but the majority don’t so those students have no idea of what the actual equine industry needs. No one wants to hire a person who has an outdated skill set - especially when it comes to dealing with high price horses. And students who graduate with an equine studies degree don’t want to muck stalls and rub on horses even though that’s the average skill set. Nothing wrong with being a groom - I think it’s the most underrated job in the industry, but when they’ve invested $200K the students think they are above that kind of job.

Students are better off taking business courses (or getting a business degree) and interning during school vacations with a top barn. That will get you practical knowledge along with the necessary business skills that a lot of trainers are missing.

Relating back to the topic, I always included ethics in my courses but I know that is not usual. A large majority of students I taught in an Equine Studies program had no idea what the actual equine industry is like and were gobsmacked to hear some of the stories I would tell. Usually scared a few away as well…

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