Not necessarily to continue to derail this convo but I’ve known of several very successful equine vets who did not have a background in horses. Most have found their way into the TB racing world.
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Very nascent stages. Which might in part explain a lack of report in 2013 (or soon thereafter).
Yes. Thank you. The end results in this case did not make good sense to me.
Is Andrew Temkin a corporate attorney for Oracle Corp? If so; I suppose he might of represented himself in his arbitration defense?
Hmmm…
Does that matter? He could have represented himself. He could have retained an attorney. Why would that matter from the perspective of understanding what happened?
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I have no idea who this is. But usually someone who does say corporate law will hire a criminal lawyer if they are charged with a crime. Lawyers specialize. They don’t represent themselves necessarily. And yes I imagine anyone dealing with SS hires the best lawyer they can afford because their entire livelihood depends on it.
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The fact that Temkin is a lawyer is (probably) irrelevant. What isn’t is what he did and we just don’t know, though we do know that he could not absolve himself of guilt in arbitration, so Safesport clearly had irrefutable evidence of misconduct involving a minor in the case tied to complaint that got him in trouble. According to records, in 2010, he left his wife - also an Eventer - and dissolved his marriage, so his two complaints could be tangentially related to that in some way. If I had to guess, I would say it relates to his daughter Madison - also an Eventer - who would have similarly aged friends and such.
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The side trip this thread took, particularly your post, reminded me multiple times over of my own trainer’s advice 30 years ago when I was contemplating an equine science degree. She asked why I’d pay money to learn what she was teaching me as a working student. Told me to go get a degree at local university in something I could “fall back on” and keep working for her. Without the resources to take my horse away to school or keep showing, she also warned me being “out of circulation” would be detrimental career-wise. And when it became clear, a year into college, that I wasn’t going to hack it in the horse world… I was burned out and miserable then but the older I get, the more I appreciate her. My childhood BFF got an ES degree from a good program. I think she only briefly worked in the industry before moving on.
(though now, as a middle-aged lady, my joke is that mucking stalls is my fallback and many days, I’m only half-joking)
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I didn’t know most of that information. It makes some good sense.
‘Concerning’ isn’t exactly the right word to describe the background character check the USEF has done before putting people on board.
Not truly sure what moral code was/is being used?
Full disclosure; not currently an active member.
All of this reminded me of a local case that was tried in 2008. Lee Poncelet, a 41-year old horse trainer, was acquitted of sexual exploitation of his 15 year old working student, because the court found the Crown failed to prove he was in a position of power or authority, or in a relationship of dependency with her. Essentially, the Court differentiated “horse trainer” from “teacher” and “working student” from “student”.
What a load of BS! The Court used the phrase “consensual sexual relationship” to describe what happened. Her counsellor reported to the police. The man’s girlfriend (a wonderful person) was also horrified and devastated when she found out.
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I’m sorry, what???
How can a 15 year old minor consent to anything with a 41 year old adult, with or without any other circumstances??
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If you read the linked decision, it’s not that long (skip the middle with the legal basis if you want) - the way the relationship is described was gross. She was very clearly groomed, he clearly assaulted her without “consent” the first time, she was pulled in and gaslit into thinking it became ok when they were “in a relationship” 
Basically it reads as if, because she was “still friendly” with him after she pursued a different relationship, the Court didn’t feel she was harmed.
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Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. Could they not pursue statutory rape charges regardless of the “position of trust” argument?
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AOC was 14 on the day they had sexual intercourse and she was 15 on that day, so a statutory rape charge wasn’t possible. Because of the case, the government quickly passed a resolution raising the AOC to 16, but did not attempt to change the legal wording in the sexual exploitation code that he had been charged with.
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Took me a minute to realize “AOC” referred to age of consent, not the freshman representative from NY.
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Ditto.
I was wondering how she suddenly got dragged into the conversation.
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“A bunch of rich people…conspire to look the other way because they are sure that…it will not actually happen to them.”
And people who aren’t affluent don’t do that ?
Well…your critique will be stronger if you don’t edit my original statement so much.
But in response to your point, I would argue that denial is a whole lot easier when you generally can protect yourself from the same things that would level a poorer person.
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I had to edit your comment so it was more concise and would take up less space in my reply.
You’re not complaining that I changed its meaning, so I guess I did a good job.
Not how that works. The burden is not upon me to make sure you read me correctly, rather, the burden falls upon you to demonstrate a correct-- even charitable and engaged reading of what I wrote before you engage with it.
BTW, the point is not undermined because poor people deny stuff right along side rich people.
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As far as age of consent goes-I much prefer how some states are clear that can prosecute and give a minimal age for prosecution. I wish more states would. I have to look and see if there is an updated versioin.
Age differential. In 27 states, the legality of engaging in sexual intercourse with minors is, at least in some circumstances, based on the difference in age between the two parties (see the third column in Table 1 ). In 12 of these states, the legality is based solely on the difference between the ages of the two parties. For example:
- In the District of Columbia it is illegal to engage in sexual intercourse with someone who is under the age of consent (16) if the defendant is 4 or more years older than the victim.
- Although it is less common, the age differentials in some states vary depending on the age of the victim.
- In Washington, sexual intercourse with someone who is at least 14 years of age and less than 16 years of age is illegal if the defendant is 4 or more years older than the victim. The age differential decreases in cases where the victim is less than 14 years of age (3 years), further decreasing if the victim is less than 12 years of age (2 years).
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