Rich Strike retired, to be offered at Keeneland sale November 17th

Or perhaps the mare was originally booked to another more suitable stallion, but the horse was booked solid and this (older) mare needed to be bred TODAY and what else is available to go to today?? “Hey, Keen Ice is open, he needs mares anyway, let’s send her to him.”

I know one lower-end breeder in FL who deals with one particular stud farm, and has very minimal pre-planning where his mares go. Basically he calls the stud farm the day the mare is ready, asks what stallions are open that day, and sends her to him. Because of his flexibility and openness to use just about any of them, the stud farm gave him some pretty significant discounts on fees. Personally I can’t imagine running my mare band that way, but his unpredictable crosses have produced some winners, so who am I to judge.

Regarding Rich Strike specifically, I could argue that he’s mostly a one hit wonder and with the right training, opportunity, and star alignment, many horses can jump up and snatch a graded stakes victory. It’s not always proof of “superior success in pedigree” from a thoughtfully designed mating.

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Wow. I can’t even imagine.

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Carrie Brogden (Machmer Hall) tells the story of having her nice mare, Life Happened, booked to a stallion at Spendthrift. She called when the mare was ready to breed but that horse was booked all day. She was told there was a new, young stallion at the farm that would be a good match if she wanted to give him a try instead. She did and the resulting foal became Vyjack, MGSW, earner of 1.5M, and Into Mischief’s first big horse.

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Or the original stallion refused to jump the mare, or had an injury etc. There’s tons of reasons they could switch off stallions the day of. I know you know this, but I don’t think some other people do! We switched day of for our mare after our first choice refused to jump her. It happens.

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I can understand that things might happen on the day that could result in a change of plans. Because… horses.

But it’s sort of unimaginable to me that a mare owner would go to the trouble to figure out exactly the stallion they want and then have to change plans at the last moment, or be casual enough about it to just call the place on the morning of and ask who’s available that day.

Those people must be much more flexible than I am. Lol.

Plus I’ve toured a bunch of the thoroughbred farms in Kentucky, and their description of their daily schedule during breeding season sounds complicated enough without throwing last-minute changes into the mix.

This is something I’ve always had questions about. All thoroughbreds are descended from 3 stallions - the Godolphin Arabian, the Darley Arabian, and the Byerly Turk, right? And most Tb sires today are male-line descendants of Phalaris, who was foaled in 1913 which isn’t that long ago. So after a certain number of generations, does the inbreeding not matter? And if you never bring new horses into the stud book, are the genes of the 3 foundation sires + whatever mares they were bred to “enough” diversity? (Hopefully my questions some kind of sense, I am by no means an expert in genetics. I guess I’d always just naïvely equated inbreeding=bad)
Are there problems in the Tb that have been linked to a higher degree of inbreeding, or genetic conditions that breeders need to be aware of when mating (analogous to HYPP in QHs)?

Thanks in advance… always appreciate hearing from folks on the board.

Yes, but the point is to get mares in foal. Few KY farms would pass up a 30K stud fee (on average) just because they didn’t feel like making a last minute change or addition to the day’s roster.

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This is shown periodically on “America’s Day At The Races”, much like what you described.

Princess of Sylmar - YouTube

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In my mares case, it wasn’t an option. The stallion refused to breed her. We could have taken her home, wasted an entire cycle, and tried again, or we could switch to a stallion that didn’t have anything to breed that session. We switched. Neither option was optimal, but breeding her then was better than wasting the cycle.

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Sporthorse breeders have the “luxury” of flexibility on breeding schedules that Thoroughbred breeders don’t have (which I know you know as a frequent poster here - I’m just putting it out there).

A foal being born after late April/early May (I’m being generous) doesn’t mean anything in sporthorse world, but is a very big deal for Thoroughbred breeders.

For those who know - will farms sometimes “bump” a mare off a stallion’s schedule for the day to make room for a known superstar producer, or that maiden Eclipse Award winner with the stellar pedigree, who is suddenly ready NOW? “Sorry, Small Regional Breeder, but Restricted-Stakes-Winner-With-Decent-But-Not-Outstanding-Pedigree is gonna have to come back next cycle, or you can pick another stallion. We’ll give you a substantial discount for your trouble.”

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I had never seen this clip, but it was fun to relive her 3 yr old season. I really enjoyed being a fan of that mare, but it’s hard to fathom it was 10 years ago that she won the Oaks and Alabama! Wow.

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I took this picture on a farm tour last year. It cracked me up that they had such a simple method to make sure the right mare went to the right stallion, although I’m sure it was probably a bit more complicated than that.

I actually wonder if they’ve started to use scanners on the way to the breeding shed these days now that thoroughbreds have microchips in them, although I guess that would still only apply to the younger horses.

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Gainesway’s had an elevated viewing area, and they also said they video’ed every breeding. Of course if they got it wrong, too late.

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I’ve been to other places that also said they take a video of every breeding.

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Yes…and the use of frozen means it is always available when the mare is ready.

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It actually isn’t more complicated than that. And I don’t see how a scanner would help.

Each mare arrives wearing a halter (and sometimes also a neck strap) with her name on it. It’s assumed that the broodmare farm sent the correct mare. If they didn’t, that’s on them.

When a mare enters the outer area of the breeding shed, the tag belonging to the stallion she’s being bred to is clipped to her halter. It will be checked and rechecked several times throughout the process.

It’s an easy and effective way of doing things.

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@Flyaways The three so-called Foundation Stallions were three very successful ones that are to be found in most pedigrees of modern TB - but a very long way back. Those three were actually a small part of a large and mixed gene pool that evolved into a specific breed.

Darley Arabian 1700- 1730
Byerley Turk c1680 - c 1703
Godolphin Arabian c1724 - 1753

So the careers of these stallions did not overlap much, even as multiple horses were being bred for racing as it was a very fashionable thing for English aristocratic families to engage in. There were many, many other stallions active. They often have great names like Places White Barb or Grosvenor’s Bloody Shouldered Arabian. The “Levant Company,” a merchant venturers company, was set up in 1600 to trade between Britain and what is now Syria, Lebanon and Palestine. Stallions to improve race horses at home were sometimes part of that trade. As the Arab breeders kept their mare very close it was fortunate that the Brits were convinced that the stallions were the more important in breeding. And of course war and diplomacy as well as trade have always moved horses around. The Byerley Turk was a warhorse captured at the siege of Buda.

Similarly, the “taproot mares” in English TBs are divided into families numbered 1-74 and that adds in more diversity. They are identified back into the 1600s and as a group they were stuffed with multiple generations of Arab, Barb, Andalusian, Neapolitan, Hungarian and a mish mash of anything else that might win races. The Irish Hobby horses were also famous coursers.

The first truly great “Thoroughbred” is Flying Childers (1715-1741) and he was active before the Godolphin Arabian began his career.

“Thorough” refers to “careful” and the first General Stud Book was published in 1791, based on the personal stud books maintained by breeders for the previous 100-150 years. It became a closed registry by accident, as the Thoroughbred had evolved into a fixed breed that could no longer be substantially improved by the addition of more foreign blood.

Personally, I’m curious about the decreasing genetic diversity within modern WB breeding, where producing horses for sport dates back to only the 1950s. Popular stallions are graded into multiple registers and with AI, they cover far more mares than TBs, limited to live cover only, could ever possibly manage. Balou de Rouet, for example, was accepted into seven studbooks.

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Yes, absolutely. I’ve been on both sides… the “bump-er” and the “bump-ee”. The booking agents in the stud office are constantly juggling mares and stallions’ availability like a giant game of mare-tetris. Most stallions breed in two sessions a day, the busy ones may fit in a third shift when necessary. The office staff do their very best to give the mare your preferred day (according to your vet’s exams), but as a mare owner you know how the game is played…you may go a day earlier than ideal, or get bumped a day late and pray that she doesn’t ovulate yet. The use of ovulation agents (deslorelin, histrelin) can help regulate timing to your advantage. And you know where your mare’s quality fits in with the stallion’s average; if you have a nice desirable black-type mare in a weak stallion’s book, you’ll get your preferred day. If you have a mare with a weak page and you’re going to a popular stallion, there’s a good chance you’ll get a call to shuffle.

Personally, I haven’t had a mare completely miss a cycle due to being bumped, but I know it’s happened to others with average mares booked to busy freshman stallions. Standard industry practice is to call the stud farm at least 2-3 days out from when you need; if it’s a super busy boy, you may call about 5-6 days out when the mare first starts developing a follicle to “get penciled on the books.” Stud farm staff knows that day is not set in stone that far in advance, and your mare may need to move up or push back a day. Your vet checks the mare every day or every other day, and you keep the booking agents updated if your mare’s status changes.

Sometimes mares do weird things and a follicle blows up overnight forcing your to call the stud farm in a panic and request a booking for TOMORROW (or even TODAY!). If it’s a busy stallion, you probably won’t get in (and you’ll just piss off the office staff by begging). But if it’s a slow stallion who needs mares, usually the farm staff will be happy to squeeze you in. I try really, really hard not to be “That Farm” who calls last minute, because keeping a good relationship with the various stud booking agents is really important for a broodmare manager. :wink:

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Am I correct when I remember that Native Dancer was sort of an accident of birth? Mare and stallion not planned well in advance but more of a fate/circumstance having it’s way.

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It wasn’t Native Dancer I was thinking of. Now it’s driving me nuts trying to think of what horse it was.

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