Riding / training without a whip

[EventerAJ]

I carry my whip as merrygoround says. I don’t use it on all horses-- my 2-star horse is PLENTY forward and sensitive enough without it-- but there are some horses I use a whip every ride.

If your whip of choice doesn’t have a mushroom cap, add a rubber martingale stopper to the end of the handle (or anywhere you like, really) to keep the whip from slipping out of your relaxed grip.

But, I also concur with the OP. I feel like the whip does interfere somewhat with my hand position. At one time, this was a GOOD thing-- I used to have a habit of dropping my left hand down, and for a few months, always carrying a whip in my left kept my hand up where it belonged. However, I do feel like my whip hand is less effective than without a whip. It’s harder to do an opening rein, maintain thumbs-on-top, and (maybe it’s just me) but I don’t feel I have as much strength/sensitivity in the rein aid when my whip is in that hand. On a greener horse, doing basic things (and when establishing Forward! is most important), carrying a whip doesn’t bother me as much.

[Ganesha]

Ok, I’m going to see if someone has a shorter whip I can try.

And - maybe I’d be happier with spurs? I have them, but at the risk of sounding like the most impossible to please, fussy person, I’m not a fan of wearing them because I don’t have as much experience, and the whole time I’m wearing about them my focus is ‘down there’ on the backs of my heels, thinking about my spurs. I’m sure I could get over that with some more spur wearing time.

I just love the feeling of not carrying a whip. Especially when all is going well, and all my hands need to do is find their neutral, happy place and enjoy the good contact. Or maybe I need to lose a lot of weight and achieve super slim thighs that don’t get in the way!

When I hack out I use a crop and stick it down in my half chaps so it’s there if I think I’ll need it, but doesn’t work with a dressage whip (and it is not at the ready).

[Demera]

I hate carrying a whip as well and never use one at home. I do sit one beside the arena at lessons in case one is required for lateral work, but most times I don’t need it. I never seem to require the use of the whip to reinforce a leg aid, and don’t think I’d enjoy riding a horse that needed it. My now retired old horse wouldn’t let me carry one, but he was super sensitive off the leg so it was never required.

I’ve seen horses that seem to have been desensitised to the whip by over use. I’d never want that to happen to my horse.

[Lucassb]

I have been riding for more than 4 decades now and very few of those rides have taken place without a whip. However - I fully agree with the OP that it changes the position of my hand for sure, and I happen to hate that. I normally carry it on the right as that is my stronger side; I find it less annoying there. When I move it to the left hand, to address a particular issue, it is SUPER annoying and I move it back ASAP.

FWIW, I have relatively short arms, at least from elbow to wrist, which I think helps create the problem. If I have my elbows properly at my sides, my hands end up about one inch in front of my belly button. There is no way to have them over the withers, where they’d be a lot more comfortable. (This drives my tall, thin, long limbed trainer crazy.) So at least in my case, I think this is a problem of basic geometry.

Luckily I can always point out that I am not permitted to ride with a whip in Championship classes (yay!!) so I obviously MUST be able to practice without one and still produce a clean test. This gets me a pass about once a week ;>

[Mango20]

I don’t use one with my current horse. She’s a bit hot anyway, but she will kick out if it even accidentally touches her. That does not help.

[SarahandSam]

[QUOTE=mountainhorse;9011657]

Here is my fav: http://www.dressageextensions.com/feldman-whip/p/1616/[/QUOTE]

I do like how similar this looks to my Professor McGonagall wand. I’m comfortable pretending to cast spells on my students, so if I can just think of this as a way to cast “hindendium engagium” or “impulsio,” maybe it’ll be more palatable.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;9011225]
It’s good to learn to carry a whip, but you certainly don’t need it. My older mare had something done to her, and no matter what I did, she always became unrideable in a whip. It’s not obvious fear, but she gets more and more out of control. At the same time I got another rescue who had obviously been abused with a whip. It took me a long time to be able to ride him with one.

Both were also overly sensitive to spurs. So I rode them both without whip and spurs, and of course I could get what I needed. Both I eventually integrated small spurs on, and the rescue I could eventually ride with a whip. I still can’t ride the mare with a whip. She was an eight year old greenbroke broodmare when I got her. She’s had two babies and I brought her to PSG. She also has a kick ass piaffe and passage, and now she has two sponsors (leasors) who ride her-- all of this without a whip.

So, yes, of course you can. You cannot ride with one in championship and FEI classes, so the idea is everyone should be able to. It’s an aide. If you don’t need it, don’t use it.

For your own sake, you do need to learn to use and carry one, though. Find someone to help teach you how to find the right one and carry one. Unlike Foxtail, I have big hands, so I add a big padded handle to my whips, or I drop them all of the time.[/QUOTE]
Refreshing to read that others have had (accomplished) horses that Did Not Do Whips. We might need to start a support group.

I was once verbally torn down and completely deconstructed in the most Unkind of Ways by a BNT clinician because I arrived at a clinic sans whip (my horse did not do them). She did not hesitate to inform me that my horse was not ever going to be completely broke until he was broke to the whip, that he was not appropriate for the level if he was not broke to the whip, and that my “excuses” were just laziness. I offered her to try him, and she declined.

Needless to say I did not ride with her ever again, and my guy went on to do just fine without a whip.

I don’t know what anyone did to him either, but he was downright unrideable with a whip. He would completely mentally shut down. He was okay with a crop, but would get worried. He was not okay with a lunge whip. I think he might have been beaten to get into the gate or the trailer before we got him with a lunge whip. Many people tried and his lack of “whip-proofing” was not through lack of trying. I tried everything with him – groundwork, professionals tried riding him, I tried picking it up casually and walking on hacks… He was a very well-behaved horse otherwise, and I never needed the whip with him anyway as he was naturally forward. He was a huge worrier, and I think his issue with the whip was fear or pain. He never got over it. I guess to some clinicians, arriving there without a whip is like arriving there without a shirt… it’s a big missing piece of the puzzle that cannot be ignored or hid from.

It’s curious, we have a second horse who is similar but his issue is not fear like the horse above. He will be happy to work with you until you try to force him to do something… when we first got him he had a horrible loading issue and many people immediately went to using the whip with absolutely no progress. He would stop and nothing come hell or high water could move him. I watched trainer[s], handlers, and just about everyone offer to “show me how it’s done” at many a show where he wouldn’t load back up, and none of them succeeded. As anthromorphic as it sounds, I think he had no interest in working with someone who was okay with hurting him – he would get worse if the whip came out. It took me a while to figure him out, but he loads fantastically for me now. His demeanor/temperament is completely opposite: hurt me, f### you. With him, I think he needed to realize no one was going to force him and as soon as he realized your agenda wasn’t to hurt him, he became your ‘partner’ and was happy to please.

[netg]

[QUOTE=beowulf;9013082]

<snip>

It’s curious, we have a second horse who is similar but his issue is not fear like the horse above. He will be happy to work with you until you try to force him to do something… when we first got him he had a horrible loading issue and many people immediately went to using the whip with absolutely no progress. He would stop and nothing come hell or high water could move him. I watched trainer[s], handlers, and just about everyone offer to “show me how it’s done” at many a show where he wouldn’t load back up, and none of them succeeded. As anthromorphic as it sounds, I think he had no interest in working with someone who was okay with hurting him – he would get worse if the whip came out. It took me a while to figure him out, but he loads fantastically for me now. His demeanor/temperament is completely opposite: hurt me, f### you. With him, I think he needed to realize no one was going to force him and as soon as he realized your agenda wasn’t to hurt him, he became your ‘partner’ and was happy to please.[/QUOTE]

The first part about the BNT - what a jerk. Too common an attitude.

Your second horse sounds a lot like my mare. She was green to trailer loading, basically, and improving until one day when I took her out of the trailer she basically turned on me like “if you try to get in there, I will KILL you!” I hadn’t pressured her at all or anything, but it took my trainer to get her loaded. Turned out, my wheel weld was failing on the wheel under her feet - I suspect her previous trailer ride it had felt or sounded scary to her, so she was truly terrified to get in. Ultimately, it taught me she has a strong fight instinct if flight isn’t an option, so I never corner her like that. Under saddle, we have been able to work to the point I can put a lot of pressure on her working on collection as long as she is regularly told she is good for trying - and she would keep trying well beyond the point I want her to. That fight instinct translates into fight to get it done instinct, as long as the work to get cooperation is there as the foundation. I’d hate to see her with someone who was forceful with her in early training, but boy is patience paying off now. She was not happy about whip at all to start, but now she likes the clarity of it (clearly not beating her with it!) and only protests if she didn’t deserve the whip to touch her.