No kidding. The dystocias I was able to correct myself, awaiting the vet, took every ounce of muscle and energy I had.
I swear, adrenalin must have given me added strength…but I could barely walk for a week after. But it sure was worth it. 
We have likely all experienced dystocias that went bad regardless of how many people were in attendance. I had two vets with my mare for over an hour. The foal’s head was turned back and they could not reach it to straighten it out. When he started coming out anyway they were able to fix the head but he quickly got shoulder lock. The vets were running to get the saw when I got the bright idea to wake up my barn owner who was able to pull him out and all was well.
Next foal also got shoulder lock but this time the umbilical cord came out with the head so it was being compressed the whole time she was stuck. She was alive when the head came out and dead when the rest of her did. Thank God we were able to revive her with cpr but that was enough for me with that mare.
There is great advice in this thread from some very experienced people but I"ll add my two cents anyway. I foaled my mare out on my own last year after worrying to death about the decision. I"d helped with foals in the past (years ago) I read the Karen Hayes book, I watched more videos to get myself ready. I talked to my vet about my fears. His attitude might sound lax, but is quite likely just the plain truth. According to him, with the VAST majority of foalings, things go just fine with no help from humans (his guess is over 90%). His thought is that with the ones that go wrong, having the mare at the vet clinic wouldn’t change the outcome vs having the mare at home and calling the vet to the farm when it happens. I was super ready with every supply needed, like lube and pulling straps. I was in the barn aisle watching when her water broke and she went down. I went into the stall and checked the presentation when she did (and about freaked out as I didn’t feel anything, then waited 30 seconds and the feet showed up). I called the vet the minute I knew she was in labor, just to give him a heads up (since it was 9pm, I didn’t feel bad about leaving him a message that MIGHT get him a 10 minute head start if things headed south). Everything for me went just fine, everything presented as it should etc. I was WAY high on adrenaline the whole time, but my husband and the video show me as super calm, quiet and capable looking, all business, but then that’s how I roll.
Some things that the experience refreshed in my mind though. Like someone else said, Karen Hayes makes it sound like you can just stick a hand in and move a baby no problem. Um, no. It’s TIGHT in there, there is NO room, it is NOT easy to get in there and make adjustments. I told my husband to remind me that I never wanted to be so worried ever again and he better remind me of that so if I ever get stupid enough to do it again, he would stop me. After a year, oh I want to do it again!
Thanks again to all who have replied and shared their thoughts and experiences! I’ve already come a long way since my first foal arrived last year and I’m excited to gain experience in another aspect of the breeding process.
What everyone else already said. The 1st year I made sure I had nearby breeders on call to help me. I am lucky to have a race breeding operation across the street - they literally foal about 100 mares a year. There is strength and knowledge if I need help. I also had a few other breeders on call - which I used the 1st year. To me, our camera system is worth its weight in gold. Post foaling and getting through all of the 1sts (nursing, up and down ect.) I can continue to watch to make sure it is getting up and down and nursing etc. between visits
[QUOTE=whitney159;8119436]
According to him, with the VAST majority of foalings, things go just fine with no help from humans (his guess is over 90%). His thought is that with the ones that go wrong, having the mare at the vet clinic wouldn’t change the outcome vs having the mare at home and calling the vet to the farm when it happens. [/QUOTE]
I totally agree with the vet on the first part – odds are WAAAAY in your favor that the mare will deliver with no problem.
But I disagree with the second part for several reasons. First (and most important) is TIME. Unless you vet is 10-15 mins away (and how many of us can even get o/o the house at 2am if we only have a 10 minute warning), it takes the vet time to get to you.
And you don’t have alot of time with horse dystocias. They aren’t like calves, who (apparently) can be stuck in there for even afew HOURS and still survive.
So if a mare foals out at the vet’s, you assume someone will be there when it all starts.
Second thing is simply pure experience. Even a half-assed vet probably knows more about dystocias than your typical female first time breeders…and he’s almost sure to be stronger.
Here is a tip I JUST learned. A friend’s mare had a foal that was HUGE. Head/legs came out fine, but stuck in the shoulders. My friend helped her a log and got those shoulders out, but then the foal got stuck in the hips.
Luckily for her, the repro vet had JUST left and so my friend called him when she saw the size of the foal. So foal was hung up by the hips for maybe (my friend guesstimates) 6 minutes. That’s all.
My friend, who is young & strong, was pulling like crazy – no luck.
Vet arrived, took the foal by the front legs and turned in counter-clockwise (mare was lying on her left side). Mare flipped over on her back and the foal just slide out.
All that pulling SEEMED like the right thing to do, but it actually wasn’t.
Unfortunately, the brief period of time of being stuck with all that pressure was just too much for the foal. Despite being taken PDQ to a university vet hospital, the foal died the next day from massive internal injuries.
But, yes, if you play the odds, the odds are all will be fine.
Wherever you decide to foal out the mare, decide ahead of time. Don’t be rushing her from place to place at the last minute.
Given that it can go really wrong whether at home or at the vets, a key issue to me is whether you can live with yourself if things go wrong at home. If you are going to beat yourself up for months or years if things go wrong at home, then take the mares to the vets if you can afford it. If you can emotionally realize that chances are it might have had the same ending at the vets and you want to do it at home, then follow all the advice above - read books, watch videos, shadow the vet if possible, etc. The “what if” game can be emotionally scarring. (fwiw, I foal at home)
okay - I do not want to derail this conversation, but I cringed when I read this in Kyzteke’s post.
“Even a half-assed vet probably knows more about dystocias than your typical female first time breeders…and he’s almost sure to be stronger.”
Kyzteke - Why is the adjective “female” relevant in describing first time breeders’ lack of knowledge/experience? I would expect all first time breeders, regardless of gender, to be unlikely to know as much as a vet their first time foaling. and why automatically assume the vet would be male?
[QUOTE=CRTXLaw;8121368]
okay - I do not want to derail this conversation, but I cringed when I read this in Kyzteke’s post.
“Even a half-assed vet probably knows more about dystocias than your typical female first time breeders…and he’s almost sure to be stronger.”
Kyzteke - Why is the adjective “female” relevant in describing first time breeders’ lack of knowledge/experience? I would expect all first time breeders, regardless of gender, to be unlikely to know as much as a vet their first time foaling. and why automatically assume the vet would be male?[/QUOTE]
Well, I suppose I WAS using alot of sterotypes; in fact 2 of my repro vets have been female. One was with me during the breech birth, and I will tell you honestly that I was wishing the whole time she was a big strong guy. Hell, I was wishing I was a big strong guy. Two middle-aged ladies trying to get those ropes on the foal and pull it out…the will was certainly there, but the sheer strength wasn’t.
I suppose I put the “female” in front of “breeder” because 98% of the sporthorse breeders I know are female. Aren’t you?
And we really shouldn’t derail the thread because of this; I think very few of my fellow COTHers would accuse me of being terribly PC but I have been breeding (at home, by myself) for a while now.
And I am TERRIFIED every darn time.
Kyzteke, thanks. I wasn’t trying to suggest anything about you, just wanted to point out that gender really isn’t relevant with respect to competency. I didn’t think that’s what you were trying to say necessarily, but it came across that way so I wanted to clarify.
In response to your question, yes I am female, but I actually know more male breeders than female, and the gender split is about 50/50 among the vets I know.
In many ways I have to agree with Kyzteke, but only about men vs female. All of my vets happen to be female, two are slim to tiny. My last years filly thank dog I had my DH available or my filly would not be here. Maiden mare was HUGE which was already scaring me, mare also gave me 3 weeks of sleepless nights/days with her cramp and dance keep me on the edge and finally when she began to foal (thankfully at the very respectable hour of 8:30 pm) I knew as soon as I slipped in there and she was not progressing though presentation was fine and I could not BUDGE the foal I needed my DH. DH had to pull quite a bit and mare ended up standing for foaling and I ended up catching the foal as DH pulled. Filly was fine, mare had a pretty good sized hematoma vaginally. Now maybe if we had sat back mare would have been ok, but I don’t think so (I have foaled out and been present for quite a few of my own and others mare’s over the years). Mare was not trying that hard and filly was a big leggy filly. If it had just been me at home I doubt I could have gotten the filly out safely. My DH got to name her since he played such a big part in her getting here safely.
[QUOTE=CRTXLaw;8121569]
Kyzteke, thanks. I wasn’t trying to suggest anything about you, just wanted to point out that gender really isn’t relevant with respect to competency. I didn’t think that’s what you were trying to say necessarily, but it came across that way so I wanted to clarify.
In response to your question, yes I am female, but I actually know more male breeders than female, and the gender split is about 50/50 among the vets I know.[/QUOTE]
Obviously, competency is vital. No doubt about that. But someone in the team needs sheer gut strength – you will find that out if you are ever so unfortunate to have a bad dystocia. And men are stronger than women. Period.
As for breeders – I know TWO male sporthorse breeders and probably 2 dozen female, so we must be travelling in different circles. Count the # of male breeder here on COTH – I think there are maybe 3? Or 5?
Our vets here (large animal) are mostly men, but we do have 3 women – two of whom do repro.
Believe me, I am all for women’s lib – I lived that stuff, trust me. But I am not going to argue that, if I had to choose a male or female equine repro vet at MY mare’s dystocia, I’d choose the man.
That being said, sometimes nobody can help no matter who they are or how strong they are. But the way I look at it, every edge, every minute saved counts.
