Ritter Clinic Report

[Marieke]

Miss van Grunsven has an impeccable seat. Since she was my ‘opponent’ last Sunday on the qualifications for the national championships in the PSG, I watched her very closely. (Unfortunatly, she beat me with riding an excellent and technical test). Her riding could not be described by hard work. Even at the chances she only shifted her weight at the precise moments. So I really disagree with the statement that her chances would look like hard work.

I still believe that hard work and riding a horse don’t go together. You can be pretty on a horse, sure, but if you ride a horse you don’t work hard (as in it should look effortless). If so, you are as ineffective as being pretty on the horse. Often the hard workers don’t work off their seat and sometimes very clearly work against the horse. There is then a fundamental problem with their riding (and I don’t say equitation as I rather see somebody crooked iwth effect then pretty and no effect, both us and the horses have conformations and my seat is not as good on one horse as it can be on the other). As with riding big gaited horses, the harder you work, the harder it is to sit to them. (and by the way, that should also be a sign that they are locked in the back and need more suppling). Riding horses is not a fitness program, it is about delicate muscle control and balance.

[ljo]

Thank you for sharing that. What’s an NSH mare? I can’t figure it out.

[Velvet]

When you tighten the belt around your waist you don’t have any ribs stopping it from digging into your organs and you also are not trying to carry around a heavy, animated object attached to your belt.

I’ve always been a firm believer in keeping the girth as tight as possible so that the saddle does not shift. Having it rub or slide creates a potential for sores/rubs and since most riders are crooked, your are shifting the saddle with them and throwing the horse even further out of balance. Not to mention how unsafe a loose girth can be in a dangerous situation. They were never invented just for looks, but are rather an important part of the safety and comfort for both horse and rider.

JMHO

[WonderPony]

TTEAM teaches to check girths on the horse’s sternum. Depending upon the shape of the horse’s barrel, what may feel loose on the barrel can be waayyy too tight on the sternum.

[rebecca_yount]

not studentS. We have discussed possible reasons for this and truly do not mean to suggest that it was caused by the clinician. If I had been there I may have had a clearer picture of what happened. The same student, however, did ride in two private lessons with Charles deKunffy last weekend and experienced no discomfort, in fact finding the session physically therapeutic. Who knows. However, this is another reason that instructors should be welcomed to observe their students’ lessons. I don’t discourage my students from riding with clinicians–but things would be better integrated if the clinic had been more accessible to me. I have no idea whether the structure and fees were the idea of the clinician or the organizer. However, I have organized clinics for over ten years with such people as Charles de Kunffy, Jean Paul Pare, Jean Luc Cornille, Mary Wanless, Nico van Stigt–and most of them have a per lesson (or daily fee within which they will do a certain number of lessons) and the organizer works out a budget based on fees, airfare, hotel, meals, etc. and charges whatever he/she wants to. Depends on the situation whether I would charge for auditors and how much. No clinician has ever told me how much to charge for auditing, or even required that I charge at all. But Dr. Ritter may be different–it’s not really fair for us to speculate, since we were not the organizer. Nevertheless–my personal opinion as a teacher, farm owner, and clinic organizer is that the organizer who welcomes other professionals or just observers or helpers or whatever is doing the clinician a favor by exposing his/her work to more people. And creating good public relations. (P.S. I believe I am correct in stating that Dr. Ritter has taken clinics and an instructor’s course from Charles).

[anita_m]

I didn’t take any offense at all. However, because you and I have never met and you’ve never see me or my horse go (at least that I’m aware of) and therefore have no way of knowing what my capabilites are, I was just trying to say that I am not such an ineffective rider that I am incapable of riding my horse well under my own command and using my legs, hand, and seat aids fairly correctly on a consistent basis without damaging either myself or my horse, and must therefore immediatley be put on the lunge until I achieve such a level of competence that the reins can be given back to me!

Also, I don’t think the position changes needed or asked for were major. Sometimes it takes only a subtle change that can strain or push an already tight muscle to its limit. I guess I went beyond my limits that day. It IS something to work on, I know. I am not saying that Dr. Ritter is a bad teacher or didn’t know what he was talking about. I am saying that I felt his overall assessment of my riding position and my horse’s weak areas was CORRECT (based on what a person can assess within the limits of a 60 minutes session), but I did not feel he was a good teacher FOR ME.

On a side note, I also found it quite interesting to find that Mr. de Kunffy pointed out the very same position changes to nearly ALL the clinic riders last weekend, even the upper level riders–the same, or very closely similar to the ones Dr. Ritter pointed out to me last weekend. Mr. de Kunffy commented to me as I chaufferred him back to his hotel one afternoon that even at the major show he judges, he often sees only a fraction of riders that have what he would consider to be good riding positions. I got the impression (although this is not a quote) but it sounded like he thinks that this is an epidemic problem because there is not enough good quality instruction available here in the US.

[This message was edited by anita m on May. 20, 2001 at 08:43 PM.]

[suzy]

Marieke, I think we are running into a language barrier here. By “hard work,” I’m referring to the years of training and practice it takes to learn to ride well. That represents a big commitment of time and energy, which we refer to as “hard work.” I’m also talking about the extra effort it takes to learn something new or perfect something you already know.

I think that you are using the term “hard work” to indicate a rider who is struggling physically because he/she is not sitting correctly or applying the aids correctly.

When the clinician told rescuemom that she had worked hard, he was saying that she had put in a really good effort and was obviously trying her best to understand what she was being taught as well as to put it into practice.

As far as sitting the horses with big gaits, no, I don’t agree with you. Some horses are just simply easier to sit to than others. It doesn’t matter how loose and wonderful my horse is in his back, he still has a tremendous amount of spring to his trot which means that I have to stay very focused on keeping my hip joints open so that I can follow his movement harmoniously. Most horses I ride don’t require that I stay nearly as focused on my hips, and they aren’t as much fun to ride or as beautiful to watch.

>>>Riding horses is not a fitness program, it is about delicate muscle control and balance.

However, to have delicate muscle control and balance does require that the rider be physically fit. That is how we develop that control and balance.

[This message was edited by suzy on May. 22, 2001 at 03:35 PM.]

[Louise]

I’ll answer for rescuemom, because I know the answer, ta da!! Ivy is a National Show Horse – half Arab and half Saddlebred.

[Louise]

On one of the occasions when I was having my saddle restuffed, the saddler commented to me that my girth was too tight. I asked him about shifting, and he commented that, if the saddle was fitted properly, it would not shift or rub and that, ideally, (I’m not trying this ) you should be able to ride without a girth.

[gwynne]

Wonderpony, I can see that as a more effective way of checking the girth for the horse who has a more elongated/oval shape with a deep heart girth, such as TB types. I do just that with my Oldenburg/TB mare, along with double checking the side. But for those of us who also have more round barrelled horses, like my Crabbett bred Arab, checking from the sides (below the girth buckle) works best.
Thanks for sharing the additional insight.
Now, back to Rescuemom and her original topic…

[anita_m]

that my physical difficulties were at least initiated by what the clinician was requiring me to do with me seat and legs. It made me ride very tightly and tensely, with my pelvic, stomach, and buttock muscles very tight in order to do what he wanted. I even mentioned this to him during the course of my lesson and his answer was somewhere along the lines (not a direct quote) that “Of course it hurts. Riding can be painful.”

[Gaspano]

I wanted to take my horse and ride in the clinic all three days but the fee schedule is pretty steep. There’s a $15 fee to take your horse off the van, walk him into the arena, ride in the lesson, walk the horse out of the stable put him on the van and leave. Whether the horse needs a stall or not, what’s called a “day stall fee” has to be paid. On top of that “day stall fee” there’s an overnight stable fee of $25 and the next day, another “day stall fee” is due to. So board at this place is 55 dollars a day. I had no idea that people who live in Maryland pay nearly 1400 a month for board. That’s more than a lot of very good places in Westchester County, NY. I audited instead. The fee for that was $35 and $15 of that was for lunch. People were pretty upset about being charged that much money for an inch of soggy bread and a single slice of deli meat wrapped up in a bit of tinfoil. Sometimes I wonder what organizers are thinking. If auditors are discouraged by high fees, that diminishes the pool of people who would be interested in filling subsequent clinic dates. And most of the time, the clinics which fill up initially always need riders from a wait list because people get sick or horses go lame or something else intervenes and spaces for lessons open up as time goes on and the clinic dates get closer. If riders are discouraged by high fees, the clinic won’t fill up in the first place and the organizer may lose a chance to get somebody really good introduced to a new location.

[Marieke]

Yes Suzy I was referring to hard work in the way you are describing it. If it was meant otherwise then please see my statement as general and don’t be offended rescuemom.

No about the sitting trot. A little yes about that some horses have flatter gaits which are easier to sit to, in a sense that you don’t have to keep focussed and do slip into mistakes like gripping with the tighs etc much easier. I, for a reason unknown to me, only ride horses with extreme gaits. Some are KWPN approved stallions, some geldings and mares (I do share the riding with my instructor, I do not ride more then 1 horse during the weekdays, all in the weekend). All are extreme flashy movers. Currently I have an AES approved stallion that came to me with a trot, that I couldn’t sit, he was terrible tense. The 2 of us have worked it out with him and suppled him beyond believe. He is now really through the back, though has his tense moments. His trot is now easy to sit to, but still very extravagant. He’s almost so suplle that the chances go reallly smooth. And yes, that was terrible hard work

[bonnzilla]

what’s a full pass?

great clinic report. THAT;s what a clinic should be like for folks.

bONeatincookies

[Velvet]

In an ideal world. Too bad I can’t seem to have a saddle that fits that perfectly. sigh What ever happened to the day when everything was custom made???

[Spyder]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If anyone is interested in my comments concerning what I saw and sort of heard, please e-mail me privately at source@erols.com. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Rebecca! I am sure that we would all be interested in another view of what was going on at Mr. Ritter’s clnic. Certainly your observations as an observer are as valid as RM’s were as a participant … even if your observations are not as positive as hers.

[KellyS]

I looked into doing the Lucinda Green “eventing” clinic in June. Each clinic participant was given an “auditor’s pass” I believe for one other person whether that be a groom/instructor/friend etc. I think it was a great idea. I couldn’t end up going due to the cost, but this “pass” was a really nice idea. I would like to see more clinicians take this approach if they have set higher auditing fees.

[rebecca_yount]

in board, of course! Please refer to my earlier post about fee schedules (in this thread). Board at most places is around $350 without an indoor and $450 with an indoor, to generalize! The organizer of the Ritter clinic felt that she needed to charge these extra fees (for all I know, the clinician required it) but this doesn’t reflect the cost of board or even the usual practice concerning clinics. The de Kunffy clinic cost $25 per day to audit. Lunch was on your own. We had a great sound system and I think everyone thought they got their money’s worth. I also had a part-day fee, and there was no day stall requirement and no charge for grooms, trainers, drivers, videotape persons, etc., as long as those people were only staying for a little while. Everyone at de Kunffy (for which I take responsibility as organizer) was honest about how long they were staying and seemed happy to pay for what they got. Please don’t base your opinion on clinics in Maryland on this one experience that you had. Most of them are very approachable and accessible. Please contact me at source@erols.com if you would like information about upcoming clinics in this area.

[rescuemom]

bon, I’d never heard of a full pass either. I just guessed it was (supposed to be) a straight sideways movement, and sure enough, that’s what he wanted. This was done between the quarterline and the wall, or a couple between centerline and wall, at the walk.

[jl1]

(I think!. I’ve also been taught that the girth is tightened as much as possible to avoid rubbing. And, have landed first on my mare’s neck, and then on a little oxer as a result of a saddle slipping years ago, I’ve become a wee bit paranoid about having the girth tight enough.
However, I just read an article in the Smithsonian about the training of novice riders for the park police. These riders are trained, in part, WITHOUT any girth at all on the premise that, if you sit properly, the saddle won’t move.