Rob Gage

[GPjumper]

@Midge

I have no idea how this works in SafeSport, but many years ago, I watched a man and a woman together in a situation that made me uncomfortable watching it. He was, to me, clearly taking opportunities to touch her when touching was not warranted. Multiple times. I will say that she did not appear threatened, just a bit uncomfortable. I spoke to his boss later who said, ‘I’m not sure what I should do with this information.’ I said, ‘maybe nothing now, but if something comes up in the future, there will be some context.’

Granted, my answers would be different now, but perhaps this is the thought process behind the anonymous reports.

It looks like he petitioned to be removed in 2011 and again is 2015 to get himself off the list. I can PM you the screen shots. They don’t want to upload for some reason.

http://www.sexoffendersarchive.com/offender/view/353659

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@GPjumper

It looks like he petitioned to be removed in 2011 and again is 2015 to get himself off the list. I can PM you the screen shots. They don’t want to upload for some reason.

Hey - is that about Tom Navarro in Aldie? You replied to Midge - but I think it’s about the VA Sex Offender Registry blank spot on Navarro.

If I am correct, and this relates to Navarro, then yes, please do PM. I have lots of friends with kids who are in that area, and actually have known 2 different very nice young ladies who have ridden with George Mason over the last 10 years. This whole thing is unsettling.

[GPjumper]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Hey - is that about Tom Navarro in Aldie? You replied to Midge - but I think it’s about the VA Sex Offender Registry blank spot on Navarro.

If I am correct, and this relates to Navarro, then yes, please do PM. I have lots of friends with kids who are in that area, and actually have known 2 different very nice young ladies who have ridden with George Mason over the last 10 years. This whole thing is unsettling from that angle is particular to me to think about personally… both were really sweet young adults.

Yes it is. I will Pm you screen shots of his petitions and removal. Nevermind: I realied I can add links
https://www.juralindex.com/civil/navarro-thomas-w-vs-termination-offender-registrat-case-details-335911b35f51407c595e5e7e4ef3ea13.html
https://www.juralindex.com/civil/nav…f4fbaa04d.html

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@dannyboy

Probably because a) it’s pending appeal and b) because his business is non-rated shows and there’s not much USEF can do about that, or about the lessons, for that matter. His past record has been an open secret for years. But you’re right - I would certainly NEVER let a child of mine take lessons there, but some people apparently can’t read or maybe they believe his rationale, which is basically “b***h set me up”.

Since you seem to have local knowledge as well… just curious if you have any idea if anyone with GMU is aware of his record? I know of two nice young people who were involved with that team over the last several years. I never had heard his name before though. I thought there was a female coach doing shows with their program as of two years ago… can’t remember the name a friend told me though.

Another thing… he is not coming up in the VA Sex Offender registry database for me. I found the conviction of 3rd degree sodomy from 10 years ago elsewhere online. Can’t quite connect that to current Virginia statutes though.

The whole thing is quite unsettling. Ugggh.

[Keep_it_Simple]

@BITSA

Keep it simple–where did you dind that the parties got discovery and the ability to confront and cross examine? As far as I could tell in reading through the SS rules, there’s no meaningful discovery and no right to confront witnesses.

I did not find it, I experienced it.

Safesport Supplemental Rules for Arbitration https://safesport.org/policies-procedures

R-27. Hearing
d. Examining witnesses (1) The Responding Party and Reporting Party shall be subject to questioning by only the arbitrator unless the Responding Party or Reporting Party agrees to direct examination and cross-examination by the opposing party.

As far as discovery, if one side has documentation which provides information and they have it listed as evidence, they provide it to the other party prior to the hearing.

[GPjumper]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Since you seem to have local knowledge as well… just curious if you have any idea if anyone with GMU is aware of his record? I know of two nice young people who were involved with that team over the last several years. I never had heard his name before though. I thought there was a female coach doing shows with their program as of two years ago… can’t remember the name a friend told me though.

Another thing… he is not coming up in the VA Sex Offender registry database for me. I found the conviction of 3rd degree sodomy from 10 years ago elsewhere online. Can’t quite connect that to current Virginia statutes though.

The whole thing is quite unsettling. Ugggh.

It’s not coming up because he petitioned to have himself removed from the registry and has been removed.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@GPjumper

Yes it is. I will Pm you screen shots of his petitions and removal. Nevermind: I realied I can add links
https://www.juralindex.com/civil/navarro-thomas-w-vs-termination-offender-registrat-case-details-335911b35f51407c595e5e7e4ef3ea13.html
https://www.juralindex.com/civil/nav…f4fbaa04d.html

Wow - thanks for the info. That certainly explains the thriving lesson business, especially if it’s people going to unrated shows with parents who don’t know enough to do a check on Safe Sport.

Does removal from the registry mean his conviction was overturned or reduced?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@GPjumper

It’s not coming up because he petitioned to have himself removed from the registry and has been removed.

Thanks for the screenshots and explaining.

So next question then… was his conviction actually overturned? Or was he just removed from the list? And I am curious if he automatically got put on the Safe Sport banned list because he was on the registry… or if there is more to it than that.

Sorry to badger you, but the whole Safe Sport discussion just went from California right into my neck of the woods. So no more throwing stones at California for me… uggh.

[GPjumper]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Thanks for the screenshots and explaining.

So next question then… was his conviction actually overturned? Or was he just removed from the list? And I am curious if he automatically got put on the Safe Sport banned list because he was on the registry… or if there is more to it than that.

Sorry to badger you, but the whole Safe Sport discussion just went from California right into my neck of the woods. So no more throwing stones at California for me… uggh.

I think he was just removed from the list but the conviction still stands. According to safesport, he was banned because of the sodomy conviction and being convicted of a criminal act.

there is also someone in warrenton with a permanent ban.

[streamline]

@Peggy

I had a Facebook exchange with someone whose daughter had ridden with John Lipari for several years, though they’d moved on by then. She was 100% aware of his record and said he’d even told them about it but that it was no big deal. People were joking on the thread that he couldn’t run fast enough to catch a young girl anymore. #wheresthefruitbat.

Kristin Medal has an interesting and worthwhile public post on her Facebook. At least IMHO. She rode in that era and says she knows several of the victims.

Kristin’s post on FB is the only intelligent thing I’ve seen on FB this past week. New respect for her.

She made valid, clear points. No victim blaming. Poked a hole in how entitled horse people really are.

[poltroon]

I just want to come back to the fact that it fills me with sorrow that so many people are hurting, that I’m still shocked and saddened that Rob took his life. I did not know him but my close contacts knew him well, and I know many people genuinely liked the man they knew. No question he was a talented, interesting horseman.

I just don’t think it says anything about SafeSport. Or if anything, seeing all the backlash, it tells me how much we need an entity like SafeSport as a third party where victims can report and where dots can be connected and where young professionals can get objective training in appropriate, ethical conduct with their students, clients, and employees so that we don’t have these tragedies in the future.

[Midge]

@streamline

Kristin’s post on FB is the only intelligent thing I’ve seen on FB this past week. New respect for her.

She made valid, clear points. No victim blaming. Poked a hole in how entitled horse people really are.

No kidding. And yet, there are people still arguing with her.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@GPjumper

I think he was just removed from the list but the conviction still stands. According to safesport, he was banned because of the sodomy conviction and being convicted of a criminal act.

there is also someone in warrenton with a permanent ban.

Well a little more research has revealed that Virginia had some very odd and antiquated sodomy laws that were finally overturned in 2014, because even in supposedly modern times like 2012 and 2013, the weird sodomy laws on the books in the state of Virginia were used to secure felony convictions regarding consensual sexual activity that took place between two adults.

So it’s actually a bit curious that this guy got removed from the sexual offender registry as of 2015. And the only sodomy law now that someone can be charged with in the state of Virginia is forcible sodomy. So I do wonder what this guy’s actual case involved… because it seems like he very possibly could have gotten caught in a rather odd legal situation.

His Safe Sport ban is still subject to an appeal. If he does appeal and it’s overturned… I wonder if he is allowed under Safe Sport rules to speak about his whole process?

So many questions. And I really don’t want to research sodomy in the state of Virginia because the whole thing makes me uncomfortable.

I know nothing of the program over at that barn. Except that people I do know locally who are MUCH closer to the Hunter Jumper community in NoVa, and who are connected to great programs locally have never recommended that program. But there are a few other great options in Aldie.

As for the other name on the list from Warrenton… I have heard that name before. But got some reason thought he had moved on and was a farrier now or something. Which I guess goes to show that people can figure out a career as a working horse professional regardless of all the Safe Sport bans…

[GPjumper]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Well a little more research has revealed that Virginia had some very odd and antiquated sodomy laws that were finally overturned in 2014, because even in supposedly modern times like 2012 and 2013, the weird sodomy laws on the books in the state of Virginia were used to secure felony convictions regarding consensual sexual activity that took place between two adults.

So it’s actually a bit curious that this guy got removed from the sexual offender registry as of 2015. And the only sodomy law now that someone can be charged with in the state of Virginia is forcible sodomy. So I do wonder what this guy’s actual case involved… because it seems like he very possibly could have gotten caught in a rather odd legal situation.

His Safe Sport ban is still subject to an appeal. If he does appeal and it’s overturned… I wonder if he is allowed under Safe Sport rules to speak about his whole process?

So many questions. And I really don’t want to research sodomy in the state of Virginia because the whole thing makes me uncomfortable.

I know nothing of the program over at that barn. Except that people I do know locally who are MUCH closer to the Hunter Jumper community in NoVa, and who are connected to great programs locally have never recommended that program. But there are a few other great options in Aldie.

As for the other name on the list from Warrenton… I have heard that name before. But got some reason thought he had moved on and was a farrier now or something. Which I guess goes to show that people can figure out a career as a working horse professional regardless of all the Safe Sport bans…

He wasn’t convicted in VA. He was convicted in Ny so we’d have to check those laws.
http://www.sexoffendersarchive.com/offender/view/353659

It was 3rd degree sodomy.

[seabreeze]

@streamline

Kristin’s post on FB is the only intelligent thing I’ve seen on FB this past week. New respect for her.

She made valid, clear points. No victim blaming. Poked a hole in how entitled horse people really are.

Are you able to post a link? I searched her name on FB, but was unable to find the name/corresponding post. Thanks!

[MHM]

@seabreeze

Are you able to post a link? I searched her name on FB, but was unable to find the name/corresponding post. Thanks!

Here you go. Very thoughtful post.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10217685600483759&id=1592221552

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@GPjumper

He wasn’t convicted in VA. He was convicted in Ny so we’d have to check those laws.
http://www.sexoffendersarchive.com/offender/view/353659

It was 3rd degree sodomy.

Thanks for clarifying that… so much for the possible weird loophole theory.

So this indicates he was 30 years old at the time of his conviction, and the listed offense on the Safe Sport site indicates it was something involving a minor, and the New York Statutes for that crime would align with the notion that it was activity with a person under 17 when he was 30. Which regardless of what some folks seem to think is just something I am NOT inclined to give any sort of leeway too.

So that’s that. I guess he’s found some way to get himself removed from the Virginia Registry - who knows - but is still on Safe Sport (pending appeal).

So this actually now looks like a rather interesting case supporting the notion that Safe Sport and it’s lists are a necessary thing serving an important function. It keeps people who have convictions in other states under slightly different laws from figuring out a way to get themselves removed from their current state’s Sex Offender Registry… and then setting up a coaching program with local clients none the wiser.

Wow.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@GPjumper

He wasn’t convicted in VA. He was convicted in Ny so we’d have to check those laws.
http://www.sexoffendersarchive.com/offender/view/353659

It was 3rd degree sodomy.

Gotcha. So given NY law on that, and his age at time of conviction, he got convicted for doing one of two things with someone under the age of 17 when he was 30.

And then somehow petitioned twice, and eventually got himself removed from the Virginia Sex Offender Registry in 2015. And has been running a “family friendly” barn in Aldie in the meantime. Except once that Safe Sport list came out, it was possible to figure out a little more about him.

Huh. That’s interesting.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@GPjumper

He wasn’t convicted in VA. He was convicted in Ny so we’d have to check those laws.
http://www.sexoffendersarchive.com/offender/view/353659

It was 3rd degree sodomy.

Thanks for the link. That clarifies things. After looking at the Safe Sport reason for the ban (conduct with a minor), New York law, and his age at the time of conviction… he was adjudicated guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of doing one of two things with someone 17 or younger when he was 30.

But then somehow, he convinced the folks here in Virginia to remove him from the sex offender registry in 2015, and is operating a “family friendly” barn with lesson programs, an affiliation with the GMU team, etc right over in Aldie.

Good thing his name popped up on the Safe Sport list and we are all a bit more aware of what is what.

[Bogie]

@MHM

Here you go. Very thoughtful post.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10217685600483759&id=1592221552

Finally. I am so dismayed by the victim blaming, by people who don’t understand why children might not tell an adult that they were abused, why they may not know everything about their coach, their friend, their relative. Heck, I recently found out that my SIL embezzled a crapload of money from her previous employer, a man she considered a dear friend. You just don’t know.

Riding should be like other sports that are instituting two-level leadership. That means two adults around at all times. No exceptions. This approach works. It protects children and coaches. It’s a PIA at times, but it’s a lot less traumatic than a child dealing with abuse, or a coach dealing with allegations.