Rob Gage

[jumpoff87]

I think it is imperative to reiterate that RG and others who have been investigated and subsequently banned (or in a few cases, suspensions were lifted) that this is to attend USEF HORSE SHOWS (bold, underline, italic, highlighted).
They could still teach clinics (WITH MINORS) at $$ a pop; they could take clients to unrated shows, horse trials, events, sell horses, whatever. They were free from jail, and they could still exercise their constitutional rights as citizens, such as voting. They just could not attend a freaking horse show.

Approximately 329 million US citizens don’t go to horse shows, all day, every day, and they seem to get along just fine.

Also, for those who want “specific details” (how lurid and voyeuristic of them, IMO) and think a threshold must be met, that’s like contending that someone who was bullied may not have been “bullied enough” for you to think their emotional angst was warranted. For all you know, they could have abuse (bullying, sexual, or otherwise) in their past and all it takes is a few words- a verbal jab - that sends someone over the edge. NONE of it is right. SafeSport is decades behind schedule, but thank goodness it’s here now.

As a sidenote, for those who want to read a book about the “culture of silence” and enabling of predators, read “A History of Loneliness” by John Boyne. It’s painfully relevant.

[Midge]

@BLBGP

Were the replies all supportive or were any telling him he’s the perfect example of why we need Safe Sport? Is anyone standing up for the survivors or is it all more of the same?

16 replies, all supportive although it appears some were deleted by monitors.

[Denali6298]

@OwnTooMany no one has ever claimed RG was the biggest threat. SS deemed him an on going threat. Hence the lifetime suspension.

[bingbingbing]

I am really disgusted by some of the heinous posts on FB.

Michael Cintas quote: [I]What Happened to Jimmy Williams, Can never be erased. For most of us that knew him like a brother, or uncle, a good friend, a student, a rider, and assistant etc. We All Loved & Admired Jimmy. Yet what happened to Jimmy, 20 years after his death was appalling. Jimmy was not here to defend himself. Yes Thank God, He Had some very Close Friends
and Loved Ones that All stood up for Jimmy. Jimmy was raped by the USEF and Stripped Of Everything He had Achieved in Life. Well You Can Not Erase A Name, and For Many Of Us Jimmy Will Live On Forever.
Now, As We All Know, This WITCH-HUNT has continued to destroy many other Amatuers & Professional In Our Life-Time. Some that No Longer Could Endure The Accusations.
Losing A Good Friend By Suicide Is Not Acceptable!

My head is spinning. WhyTH would AK lie about being raped by JW as an adolescent and all of the awful things he did to her and MANY others…FOR YEARS. I don’t give a $%^# how brilliant of a horseman he was. He ruined so many lives and was a predator and pedophile. What happened to JW’s victims can never be erased. [/I]

IMO, there are too few people on the SS list. I hope that more victims are brave enough to come forward, but I am not optimistic. People are blaming everyone under the sun for RG’s death. No one killed RG, but RG. I feel awful for his family and friends. Suicide is brutal for those left behind.

BUT YOU CANNOT STOP SOMEONE FROM COMMITTING SUICIDE. YOU CANNOT FORCE SOMEONE TO COMMIT SUICIDE.

People react differently to major stressors and mental illness in their life. Some seek help, some don’t need to, and some tragically kill themselves. I lost a BF in college to suicide. Do I feel sad to this day, you betcha. But I didn’t lash out and blame everyone/thing under the sun that contributed to his unhappiness and depression.

[Jealoushe]

Did that guy really blame the victims mother and her upbringing for what happened…my god that is about as bad as it gets. Any person with half a brain could see through his predator manipulating ways. Any person with half a brain knows how hard it is to criminally convict in those cases so its not a surprise if he wasn’t convicted. What a loon.

When people say they want the exact details I just assume they are a pedophile and want the details to get their rocks off. Go get your twisted pleasures elsewhere. Youve already been told it was sexual misconduct with a minor. That’s all youre going to get so GTFOI.

[Jealoushe]

@OwnTooMany

I will say that your comment more or less requires me to believe that RG was one of the biggest threats out there among USEF “covered persons.” Frankly, that is very hard for me to believe.

I would just like to point out that this is THE CLASSIC response of those who know, have met, or are acquainted with psychopaths and the like after they commit a crime. Bundy, Dahmer, Denis Radar, the list goes on. It is always those who know the perpetrator who claim “it could never be them” or that they find it impossible to believe yada yada yada.

I think those who doubt victims claims need to do some research into the world of true crime. What you don’t know makes you look beyond ignorant.

[OwnTooMany]

@jumpoff87

They could still teach clinics (WITH MINORS) at $$ a pop; they could take clients to unrated shows, horse trials, events, sell horses, whatever. They were free from jail, and they could still exercise their constitutional rights as citizens, such as voting. They just could not attend a freaking horse show.

I’m not 100% sure, but I think this is basically not true for things like clinics.

The USEF Safe Sport policy (https://www.usef.org/forms-pubs/YXj0R68pxq0/safe-sport-policy), under a section called “E. Aiding and Abetting” (Aiding and Abetting is prohibited) says:

“Aiding and Abetting also includes, without limitation, knowingly:”

Item 2 in the list is:

“Allowing any person who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by the Center to coach or instruct Participants.”

So you could not conduct a clinic at a barn owned by a USEF member, trainers that are USEF members could not take their students to the clinic, students that are USEF members could not go to the clinic, etc.

I think that if you are banned by SafeSport, any business you had doing clinics (with minors or adults) is history. It seems like you could still train horses and buy and sell horses, but for most trainers I think it is fair to say that your business is destroyed.

[jumpoff87]

@OwnTooMany

I’m not 100% sure, but I think this is basically not true for things like clinics.

The USEF Safe Sport policy (https://www.usef.org/forms-pubs/YXj0…e-sport-policy), under a section called “E. Aiding and Abetting” (Aiding and Abetting is prohibited) says:

“Aiding and Abetting also includes, without limitation, knowingly:”

Item 2 in the list is:

“Allowing any person who has been identified as suspended or otherwise ineligible by the Center to coach or instruct Participants.”

So you could not conduct a clinic at a barn owned by a USEF member, trainers that are USEF members could not take their students to the clinic, students that are USEF members could not go to the clinic, etc.

I think that if you are banned by SafeSport, any business you had doing clinics (with minors or adults) is history. It seems like you could still train horses and buy and sell horses, but for most trainers I think it is fair to say that your business is destroyed.

Paul Valliere and Barney Ward did/PV still holds clinics - and with a lifetime ban. So ‘in theory’ “their business is [effectively] destroyed” but you would (or wouldn’t) be surprised at how many people don’t care. And/or how many local people who do unrated shows and events would still show up. Especially if they’re star-struck horse kids.
The SafeSport banned people could host clinics at their own facility and only be ‘aiding and abetting’ themselves.

Also, note that as a banned member, they’ve effectively ruined THEIR OWN lives and businesses,* NOT* SafeSport. Don’t forget, SafeSport wouldn’t even exist without people like RG, et al.

Ignorance, willful or not, will always enable the worst of society to prey on people.

[Capall]

@OwnTooMany

I think that if you are banned by SafeSport, any business you had doing clinics (with minors or adults) is history. It seems like you could still train horses and buy and sell horses, but for most trainers I think it is fair to say that your business is destroyed.

Then maybe they shouldn’t have sexually abused minors. I literally do not feel bad for someone who has a history of predatory behavior (ie… more than one 17 year old girlfriends… nice pattern) and sexual misconduct with multiple kids who are younger than 15. Sorry, I don’t feel bad for you. Keep your comments and body parts to yourself. Is it REALLY that hard of a concept to understand? Even if the CHILD throws themselves at the person. Don’t do it. It’s called having scruples.

[bingbingbing]

@jumpoff87

Paul Valliere and Barney Ward did/PV still holds clinics - and with a lifetime ban. So ‘in theory’ “their business is [effectively] destroyed” but you would (or wouldn’t) be surprised at how many people don’t care. And/or how many local people who do unrated shows and events would still show up. Especially if they’re star-struck horse kids.
The SafeSport banned people could host clinics at their own facility and only be ‘aiding and abetting’ themselves.

Also, note that as a banned member, they’ve effectively ruined THEIR OWN lives and businesses,* NOT* SafeSport. Don’t forget, SafeSport wouldn’t even exist without people like RG, et al.

Ignorance, willful or not, will always enable the worst of society to prey on people.

YES!!!

And how many people are friends with PV on FB and go to his clinics/train with him, despite what he did. And while he may color within the lines of the law now, I would not let him anywhere near one of my horses.

[Crashing_Boar]

Here’s something from “Back in the Day” that pretty much says it all:

Anthem for the A Circuit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThToz3UmIL4

And “Back in the Day,” we found it self-explanatory.

Hasn’t changed much.

[2bayboys]

@DMK

It certainly is a banner week for private facebook groups…

Ha HA! Indeed!

[kt]

Sorry if this was already mentioned, but it looks like Kathy Serio has deleted her personal Facebook account entirely…

[khobstetter]

Good evening, if you guys have questions about Safe Sport OVERHAUL or what is going on over there, feel free to call or text and ask me questions if you don’t want to join. The group is NOT about RG or JC although the situations with several athletes actually killing themselves, or trying too, motivated it certainly.

The only goal is to work toward a Fair Sport TRANSPARENT process for our athletes while protecting our children of all ages and gender. We are not a sounding board for specific problems BUT if someone (who has been through it) wants to post a little of their situation, they may. BUT we monitor the comments pretty close for pot stirrers while trying to allow comments.

We only delete comments if they get personal or negative or pot stirring. Let me assure we did NOT delete any negative comments on Randy’s, unless it was someone wanting to fight with another member, we won’t have it…I hope we have done a fair job BUT if you see it different, we will certainly listen. The group is not for everyone… some may not agree with or understand our task but at least we are doing something!!.

I am a #METOO and an abused survivor wanting a Fair process as we clean house in ALL sports. And we really feel the best way we can clean up some of our untold secrets is to work together toward a FAIR SPORT process that encourages stepping up.

Let me be very clear…I believe sports in this country DESPERATELY NEEDS SAFE SPORT but it has to be a clear, fair process. We believe it not necessarily is…plus we believe that Athletes MUST have a say in any process connected with them. Maybe it’s not perfect, but many many people are trying…

Feel free to contact me, or the moderators, if you have questions. We welcome your comments and if you have any suggestions for us, please let us know. 714/797-1404 or ijumpsports@aol.com.
Kathy

[Midge]

Kathy, I have been watching your group and frankly, it appears you have a lot of people vastly ignorant about Safe Sport and how it works. And vastly ignorant about the constitution, due process and the criminal justice system. One of the people with actual experience seem happy to not only let misinformation ride, but back it up and use innuendo to claim things that are not true. With all the comments about false reporting, ways to punish false reporters, and people repeating false information about both Rob’s case and how safe sport works, it seems more of a revenge group than a working group. In order to believe some of the things people are claiming, you’d have to believe all that has to happen is someone makes a phone call and people are banned. You’d have to believe safe sport is full of people just waiting to drag someone down. The facts do not back that up.

Your friend was a child molester, yet people seem determined to claim he was banned for life because he dated a 17 year old when he was 22. You have 1500 members, some of them quite capable of actually helping make improvements to safe sport. But you have 1485 people thinking safe sport was the bad guy.

[APirateLooksAtForty]

@Midge

Kathy, I have been watching your group and frankly, it appears you have a lot of people vastly ignorant about Safe Sport and how it works. And vastly ignorant about the constitution, due process and the criminal justice system. One of the people with actual experience seem happy to not only let misinformation ride, but back it up and use innuendo to claim things that are not true. With all the comments about false reporting, ways to punish false reporters, and people repeating false information about both Rob’s case and how safe sport works, it seems more of a revenge group than a working group. In order to believe some of the things people are claiming, you’d have to believe all that has to happen is someone makes a phone call and people are banned. You’d have to believe safe sport is full of people just waiting to drag someone down. The facts do not back that up.

Your friend was a child molester, yet people seem determined to claim he was banned for life because he dated a 17 year old when he was 22. You have 1500 members, some of them quite capable of actually helping make improvements to safe sport. But you have 1485 people thinking safe sport was the bad guy.

Midge, I’m curious why you joined the group if you aren’t interested in reform.

[ladyj79]

“reform”

[Midge]

@APirateLooksAtForty

Midge, I’m curious why you joined the group if you aren’t interested in reform.

Who said I wasn’t?

[Denali6298]

@APirateLooksAtForty

Midge, I’m curious why you joined the group if you aren’t interested in reform.

Not to speak for Midge but the USEF had an opportunity to create customize policies for the horse industry. Instead they used the generic policy. A concern by many is Safe Sport is a better fit for more main stream sports and that there are aspects of the horse industry that make the policies more challenging to comply with because of how the horse industry works.

A group like the Facebook group seems like it’s a good way to bat around ideas to do just that. Obviously that doesn’t appear to be the goal.

”Reform” is right.

I personally would never join a group that welcomes child molesters or people who take advantage of the coach/student dynamic with open arms.

[SonnysMom]

@APirateLooksAtForty

Midge, I’m curious why you joined the group if you aren’t interested in reform.

I have been temped to join so that I can keep mental track of who I never want to do business with. I do not want to financially support people that are either supporting predators or who are totally willfully ignorant.

There was a clinic this year with somebody that was banned at one point by USEF for a drug violation. While it would have been nice to attend the clinic I have no interest in supporting people that get drug bans. I have even less interest in supporting people banned through SafeSport. I don’t want to support those that are willfully ignorant about why JW was banned and why RG was banned and continue to support them and predators like them.

Just to clarify what I mean by willfully ignorant.
On many of the FB threads and some of the SS CoTH threads it is painfully obvious that a number of people think SS should be thrown out or overhauled but they have never bothered to do any reading on the SS site. The just read the FB rants of other ignorant people and accept that as gospel. Those are the people that I consider willfully ignorant. They are choosing not stay uninformed. They are choosing to mindlessly believe FB posts rather than looking at the source.