Robert “Bob” McDonald Apparently Cleared of Allegations of Sexual Misconduct, Lifting of SafeSport Lifetime Ban

I am only marginally interested in either. I just stumbled across it as another prominent equestrian was removed from the ban list.

the point being that the organization needs to shape up their process.
at least 2 people now have the stigma of sexual impropriety attached to their name even though their offense was nowhere related to that. Just by virtue of SS actions.

Somewhere I don’t get the Safe Sport thing.
Why not pursuit this criminally, as it should be done?

Then again, there are so many people involved in the coverups (I do tend to forget that SS is not just the horse industry)
Maybe we need better sex education in this country, so kids know when things aren’t right.
and less hero worship and more accountability of the people around the perpetrators.

I suppose you will find out whether or not McDonald will follow through on his threats.
It is still a white man’s world. His odds aren’t bad.

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You do understand that SafeSport covers more than just sexual abuse allegations, don’t you? People can violate multiple different aspects of the code, and penalties that are handed out can vary, depending upon the specifics of the violation.

So there’s that.

Is SafeSport without problems? Of course not. Neither is the criminal justice system. Nor our legal system that addresses civil complaints. Nor the EEOC Complaint process. Nor the process the military engages in for UCMJ violations. Nope. None of these processes sbd systems are perfect. All screw stuff up at times. Safe Sport is young. Refinements to the process will happen, undoubtedly, as time goes on.

So that’s how I see it. Clearly something was less than ideal during the course of the McDonald investigation. The recent article published in the OC Register seems to indicate that a major issue was the SafeSport investigator who followed up on this complaint, took testimony from witnesses, and wrote up much of the report. It seems as though a lack of confidence in this investigators work, and a considerable amount of discomfort with how the investigator questioned the complainants played a role in the eventual decision by both complainants to refuse to testify at the arbitration hearing. And when that happened, SafeSport chose to administratively close this complaint, preserve the right to reopen it later, and to go ahead and reinstate McDonald. It’s all unfortunate… but this stuff happens during processes like this sometimes.

There is a lot of piling on in terms of any and every SafeSport decision now that people perceive as problematic. Folks should pause abs consider why that is. Perhaps… perhaps… part of the issue is that there are multiple folks at the top of the sport who feel very threatened by SafeSport, very concerned about it, and are encouraging others to doubt and question every ruling that comes out. That’s a bit of a problem. SafeSport was created for a reason. There are MAJOR cases in equestrian sport, USA gymnastics, figure skating, swimming, etc etc etc where top tier coaches abused minor athletes with impunity for DECADES, and people looked the other way. It’s a serious issue. Look up the charging docs in relation to John Geddert. It’s all over the news… because he took his own life yesterday.

Anyway… my point is that people within equestrian sport are STILL really fixated on trying to tear down SafeSport. Abs they seem to have forgotten why it came about at all. Or just yo be a bit uninformed. Or perhaps to be caught up in all the arguments put forth by influential friends and associates of some of the big names that made their way into the lifetime ban list. I find all of that deeply troubling.

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It was called Quest before it was Trek. It was a great program at least in the time I was there but teachers and guides were extremely professional. It is easy to see how a predator could use weeklong trips with no parental supervion to their advantage though, kinda like how it is with horse shows. Sorry to derail but it was a decently big scandal in Vancouver at the time.

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What you and I know does not count when many people only see the sexual side of the SS actions.
I have seen the associations with SS ban and sexual misconduct!
the link is there and it adds to the problems. Ali Niforushan had to specially mention it, Barisone just had another burden to disprove.
it IS there, just because you know it and I know it does not remove the stigma.

We are having a cultural problem that overreaches sports.
There is the knowledge that people knew about the transgressions at Penstate, but the football program!
There is the understanding that Ohio State (I believe) provided baited hunting grounds.

And there is the man who tried to bring a sitting president down over a BJ while going on to defend(!) the rape culture of Baylor University!

And in all those cases there were those who felt attacked by the allegations, That the proceedings would ‘tear down’ the sport.

I just get the feeling Safesprt wants to be too many things and can’t get the mastery needed in the field.

I agree that SS is flawed, but it is better than nothing and we in sports should continue to press for improvement.

Thank you for posting the article so I could read it, Virginia Horse Mom. It’s horrifying. I think one very damning aspect of the story is that McDonald left his first wife for Debbie, who was under age at the time and was known to the first complainant because that is the same time he was abusing her. He was no doubt sexually active with Debbie too at that time. If that is the case, then I am more than horrified that she would stand by him, knowing full well that he is capable of what he’s been accused of doing. I’m only sorry that the accusers backed out of cooperating with the arbitration. SS had no choice but to lift the ban. :frowning: Horrible situation all the way around.

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The person in this sort of situation often stands by the accuser because to do otherwise would require them to view herself as a victim and sometimes that’s more than a person can handle.

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As I said above, it’s really asking a lot to think that a wife in this position would publicly turn against her 75 year old husband after 45 years of marriage, and reinterpret their courtship as statutory rape.

It’s a very different perspective than that of the teenage girls who were assaulted, didn’t want the attention, and were left behind.

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Agree, and I always try to be careful not to throw under the bus someone who herself might be a victim. Victims act in ways that, from the outside, don’t always seem logical

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You’re welcome. It’s a pretty stunning article to read. I hope others take the time to read it, abs think about this case, various public statements made by various prominent people over the last 8 months… and what to make of it all.

I do not personally know Debbie. But I know multiple people who do, abs all have very good things to say about her. This is an incredibly sad and challenging situation for her, no doubt.

But it seems pretty clear at this point that some portions of her public statement back from August of 2021 about the circumstances related to Bob’s SafeSport case being dropped were… misleading. She’s currently still the Technical Adviser to the US Dressage Team. SafeSport came about for SERIOUS, NECESSARY reasons. It is inextricably linked to a culture in the Olympic Movement involving a NUMBER of exploitative coaches who have sexually/physically/emotionally abused minor athletes. Part of that culture extends beyond the abusers themselves, to the people who work or compete alongside abusers, abs turn a blind eye to this behavior for years on end.

It makes me very very sad, but in my opinion, in the wake of this article, if USEF wants to maintain credibility when it comes to the issue of SafeSport, it seems clear that Debbie needs to step down from her role as Technical Adviser to the US Dressage team. That’s just how I see it… others can disagree. I do find it all incredibly sad.

Last thing… others mentioned the Quest program in Vancouver. That was interesting. The thing that came to my mind first, however, was the relationship between SH and JW.

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A little more background information for folks following this topic, concerning Scott Reid, the reporter with the OC Register who looked into these claims about Bob McDonald, the full SafeSport investigative report and related evidence, and who interviewed the claimants.

People should know that Scott Reid has extensive professional experience in this topic (sexual abuse of minor athletes and circumstances tying that to the Olympic Movement). He’s a very serious, accomplished journalist. He broke the full story about Don Peters, a USA Gumnastics coach, abs has been investigating abs writing about these sorts of stories for years.

I found some details about his bio and professional history on the OC Register site. I pulled some parts from a lengthy article on his professional history, and have copied and pasted that content into this comment, in case others are still dealing with paywall challenges with the OC Register site.

“In 1996, Reid joined the Register as the paper’s sports enterprise and investigative reporter. In early 2000, Reid heard about concussions while covering the National Hockey League and observed major injuries in professional football. They brought back memories of the student gymnasts. “It struck me the impact these young women were doing was at the same level,” Reid says. “I think these guys from the University of Tennessee said, ‘Imagine standing on a basketball hoop and then jumping off it repeatedly onto an 8-foot foam mat.’”

Covering the Olympics trials in Anaheim and the 37th World Artistics Gymnastics Championships also gave Reid a chance to see a few injuries of US gymnasts up close. In the spring of 2004, he started methodically tracking down a list of former junior and senior national team members from 1982 to 2004.

In December 2004, the Register published Reid’s two-part, 5700-word feature into how the sport’s culture of training and overwork often led to injury and surgeries at a rate similar to professional football players; 93 percent of gymnasts, he noted, suffered broken bones or sustain injuries that require surgery. It also detailed how a widespread obsession with weight and diet often lead to eating disorders among members of the junior and senior national teams.

Nobody listened to these women. In some cases, it’s been decades. Sometimes you’re really the first person who’s willing to hear them out.

They included interviews with more than 100 women, one of whom told Reid she broke her arm when she was 15, her foot when she was 16, and had her hip replaced at 21. He was struck by a darker undercurrent in their stories of all their injuries. “Just the psychological abuse,” he says. “Kids implying they had been kind of roughed up. Not to the point that Nassar did, but way over the line.”

After that story ran, Reid started getting emails from an anonymous source urging him to look into 1984 Olympic coach Don Peters and his relationship with gymnast Doe Yamashiro. Reid eventually figured out who his source was—the daughter of Linda McNamara, Peters’s assistant at his gym. Linda McNamara connected Reid to Yamashiro. Peters ran a gymnastics facility called SCATS in Orange County, which Reid says was like an “Olympic factory,” since multiple members of the 1984 team had trained with him there. “We found that he had sex with three teenage gymnasts,” Reid tells CJR. “Just really vile stuff.”

Reid’s 2011 twopart investigation into USA Gymnastics also included reporting on Doug Boger, a US national team coach in trampoline gymnastics who had abused a series of young girls at a gym in Pasadena, CA in the 1970s and 1980s.

ICYMI: The story BuzzFeed, The New York Times and more didn’t want to publish

The report found Boger was named USA Gymnastics Coach of the Year in 2009, and was a national team coach at the 2009 World Championships even though he was under investigation. “We found that even though he was banned, he was coaching at a friend’s gym in Colorado Springs, just a short car ride over from USOC headquarters,” Reid says.

That investigation led to Peters resigning, Boger getting fired, and a series of follow-up stories. Outlets like ESPN noticed and USA Gymnastics adopted new rules designed to prevent banned coaches like Peters from remaining in the sport. “But just as it was getting legs, the [Jerry] Sandusky thing broke,” Reid says. He recalls how victims of Peters and Boger felt like their cases were perceived as either not a big deal or not as much as a surprise compared to Sandusky’s male victims. “What Boger did to those girls is as horrific as anything I’ve ever seen. And I was frustrated because I think if it had gotten better play then, we might have been talking about Nassar then instead of six years later.”

“The Sandusky thing was like a giant tidal wave that just crashed over this Peters story and it was just kind of forgotten,” he later added.

In addition to reporting on LA’s Olympic bid and the NFL’s relocation to LA, Reid has also led investigations into the International Olympic Committee, the US Department of Education, the California Legislature, and incidents of abuse by USA Swimming coaches. “I think in terms of scandals, [USA Swimming is] on par with USA Gymnastics,” he says. “Just the neglect and the culture that created these abusive coaches. There’s not a Nassar-figure we’ve found so far, but I think eventually it points to the [US Olympic Committee].”

Reid knows sources have spoken to him because of his reputation, the breadth of work he’s published, and word-of-mouth from other survivors. “When I approach people now, I send them my stories and show them I know what I’m talking about,” he says. “It’s a headline to us but it’s a person’s life. It’s also important to tell these stories because I tell these women all the time that they’re saving some kid’s life by coming forward. And I firmly believe that. That’s why you do this. You’re making a difference.”

In the recent case of Marcia Frederick, Reid was tipped off by another Olympian. Reid initially spoke to Frederick on the phone, but the former USA Gymnastics world champion said if she was going to tell Reid her story, they had to meet in person. “I went back to Massachusetts, spent a day with her, and got her trust,” he says. “She wanted to look me in the face.”

His interview process is pretty simple. “You ask a couple of questions and just get out of the way,” Reid says. “You’d be surprised how many times you interview somebody and these women will have 20 minute answers. Nobody listened to these women. In some cases, it’s been decades. Sometimes you’re really the first person who’s willing to hear them out.”

Reid sees the focus on Nassar as important, but a symptom of a much larger problem. He says it’s important that journalists don’t portray or view Nassar as a kind of Sandusky–like “lone-wolf monster”; the focus should be on the larger Darwinian attitude towards the athletes that often causes them to overtrain in highly vulnerable conditions. He recalls talking to USA Gymnastics national team coach Marta Karolyi at the Rio Olympics in 2016 and her nonchalant attitude about Simone Biles’ performance: “‘The strength of our program is we have so many girls, and so if someone can’t make it or breaks down, we just put another one in.’”

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I mostly agree with this, abs totally understand what you are saying.

But Debbie’s public statements from last August about the closing of the SafeSport investigation tied to Bob are problematic to me. I wish they weren’t… but I’ve re-read the public statement she made a few times, and then looked at what was laid out in the Feb 5, 2021 article… and it troubles me.

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100%

Actually it does. Or at least it should. Otherwise, what’s even the point of an investigation?

(I have no idea what you are responding to)

@YankeeDuchess just fyi when you edit your 7 month old posts now that include/respond to other people’s quotes, that person gets notified.

And of course it changes the context of the conversation.

Maybe move on sometime? Like to the present conversation?

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I think a statement that you make to the public is quite different from sworn testimony. I consider it “spin” in which she very much wanted to mislead an create the impression he had been cleared, but nevertheless uttered technically true statements.

What would you have said if you were in her shoes?

My apologies, I had no idea that was happening.

However, the upgrade screwed up the formatting of my old posts and it really bugs me.

Feel free to put me on “mute” which I believe suppresses notifications.

I think she was responding to your statement way back that dropping the charges does not mean he was cleared.

You seem very invested in defending the McDonalds.

If I were in her shoes, I would have had a lawyer speak on my husband and I’s behalf. Because the charges are clearly really serious. And I would likely want my lawyer to keep statements very short and careful. Not engage in spin. Because I would be aware that the SafeSport case had only been administratively closed, and there was a possibility of SafeSport reopening it at any time, and reinstating the ban… at which point my husband and I would then be facing that arbitration process. And I wouldn’t want any “spin” type public statements to come back and bite us during an arbitration proceeding.

Also… if I were in her shoes I’d be worried about the claimants pursuing civil action or going to reporters, and the details of the whole complaint getting out in the public eye (which is what happened). I would be worried about saying anything that agitated the complainant, and tipped the scale, such that the complainant DID decide to pursue civil action or go to the press.

So here’s a question for you Yankee… if you were in the shoes of complainant, and you listened to the spin and statements from Bob and Debbie last August… how would you feel? Agitated? Outraged? Frustrated at their claims that Bob was “cleared?” Just something to think about as well.

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How can a country that puts such great store in the legal process allow this to go on ?

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